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Hack and Tap

Rod Knee

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Grand Jct., CO
Did search regarding hack/tap but didn't really get the answers I sought. I have a "96 (built in late "95) with selectrac/242 tcase. As I understand, H&T is my only option for slip yoke eliminator. My questions are:

1. I understand there is no tailcone on the "96's and later years which is good because SYE's installed on tailcone tcases tended to leak. Does that sound right?

2. Hack and tap SYE's minimize any leakage problem because the internal seal of the tcase is not comprimised. Have I got that right?
 
Was the hacking of the output shaft not difficult or tricky? Is it not critical to get the cut perfectly perpendicular to the long axis of the shaft?

That part of the procedure spooks me.
 
Rod Knee said:
Was the hacking of the output shaft not difficult or tricky? Is it not critical to get the cut perfectly perpendicular to the long axis of the shaft?

That part of the procedure spooks me.

I was a little scared but followed some instructions I got from another forum and just put it up on jackstands started the engine put it in reverse and let it idle while i cut it at the correct length with a cutoff wheel on my die grinder.
The length was 1.25 or 1.5 inches of spline to remain IIRC. Check your instructions. The most time consuming was cleaning out the debris in the splines before the flange was tapped on. The tapping was also slow but went well just remember to go very slow and continually back the tap out and use plenty of lube.
 
hack n tap is not your only option..
Tom woods i beleave sells a kit with a new output shaft. and can sell you the corresponding driveshaft.
that does involve removeing the t-case and dissasembling it though.
 
alwaysready said:
hack n tap is not your only option..
Tom woods i beleave sells a kit with a new output shaft. and can sell you the corresponding driveshaft.
that does involve removeing the t-case and dissasembling it though.
Tom's is basically a hack and tap. He just uses a lathe to get the "hack" true and straight. Then he simply taps it just as you or I would. It's not a beefed up shaft or anything special, just a stocker.

Hale
 
Haleyes said:
Tom's is basically a hack and tap. He just uses a lathe to get the "hack" true and straight. Then he simply taps it just as you or I would. It's not a beefed up shaft or anything special, just a stocker.

Hale

Not to question you, but to question you. It has been a few years but I did both the hack and tap and eventually the tail shaft on my 01. Seemed to remember the new tailshaft was bigger as they sent you a new tail shaft seal because it was a different size.

I recommend calling Tom Wood's and asking, You need a new driveshaft for a SYE anyway so go with the whole Wood's deal.
 
Jim 01XJ said:
Not to question you, but to question you. It has been a few years but I did both the hack and tap and eventually the tail shaft on my 01. Seemed to remember the new tailshaft was bigger as they sent you a new tail shaft seal because it was a different size.

I recommend calling Tom Wood's and asking, You need a new driveshaft for a SYE anyway so go with the whole Wood's deal.

Maybe I'm mistaken then.:dunno: I got an email from TW some time ago explaining it all out in plain and simple terms. It was quite a while back when I read that, maybe my memory is pulling the wrong file. That email is on my home puter. I'll try to remember to look it up and post it up here.

Hale
 
Easy fix to call them really. Funny how we remember things. I just know I had to replace the shaft and the piece that is on the rear of the T/C. Could be two different T/C's as well.
 
Earlier ones had a tailcone and the later ones did not. I don't recall what the cut-off is.
 
Earlier style with extension housing was '95 and older.
Later style with no extension housing was '96 and newer.

When doing a hack-n-tap, of course it is best to be as precise as possible. But in reality there is a margin of error wherein you will still be okay.

The shaft does not need to be cut perfectly straight. The flange will go on straight because of the splines.

The hole does not need to be drilled perfectly in the center of the shaft. Obviously if it is way off you will have problems, but slightly off and it will still work.

Where most people have problems is they break the bit off in the shaft. Be carefull not to do that. Consider using a slightly larger bit for the pilot hole to reduce the risk of the bit breaking.

You will also be screwed (no pun intended) if you don't drill the hole deep enough. If you don't you won't be able to tap enough threads and the bolt will bottom out before tightening the flange down properly. So make sure you drill as deep as the instructions call for.

Use red locktite for the bolt.
 
Very easy to get it dead straight anyway if you cut it while the shaft is spinning in reverse while idling. Can't cut it crooked if you tried. See my site for full details. www.go.jeep-xj.info
 
Tom Wood said:
Thank you for considering me for your drive shaft needs. Through the years I have experienced a little bit of a "bad rap" over my refusal to knowingly build a drive shaft intended to run in conjunction with the Rubicon Express slip yoke eliminator. Some people seem to think that I have some sort of personal problem with the company or their people. That, I will assure you is not the case. Personally I have the highest regard for them and almost all of their products.
In addition to liability concerns, my rationales are for what I perceive to be sound mechanical reasons. I will outline them for you here.
1. The method of cutting off, drilling and tapping the output shaft of the transfer case while still in the vehicle, is something that I would neither recommend nor attempt myself. I have seen many shafts ruined in this endeavor.
2. After the shaft has been shortened, you will still have a substantial area of unsupported shaft beyond the rear output bearing. This is not entirely a result of Rubicon Express’s design, but I would also consider this to be a problem on a factory original shaft. The result of this is known as "overhung load." The drive shaft which would install against the modified shaft will weigh about 15 pounds while the factory original drive shaft weighs about 9 pounds. This in itself will nearly double the overhung load. We must also consider that under a load, the drive shaft will have a tendency to want to straighten out. This will also increase the overhung load.
3. You should also understand that in order for the new output flange to install on the output shaft, there must be some minor internal clearance between the splined bore of the flange and the splines on the shaft. Because of this clearance, you will then have the potential for minor independent movement between the flange and the shaft. This independent movement, over time (sometimes a very short time) will wear down the splines on the output shaft and enlarge the splines in the bore of the flange. When this happens, it will, because of the looseness between the parts, allow the flange to run eccentric. This will cause a vibration problem with the vehicle. Most people, upon discovering this problem, will re-tighten the retaining bolt. Unless the output shaft has been cut off perfectly square, this will cause the face of the flange to be less than perfectly perpendicular to the centerline of the output shaft. This will usually cause even a more severe vibration problem. When people have a vibration problem and a drive shaft that I have built, their problem becomes my problem. I see this problem as avoidable and prefer to do so.
With any of the other conversion kits available, there will be a more substantial shortening of the output shaft, reducing the overhung load. Furthermore on any of the other conversions, the rear output flange or yoke is solidly "sandwiched" between the retaining nut or washer and the rear output bearing. This secure attachment will prevent the wearing of the splines on the mating parts. Thus, preventing the problem as outlined above.
May I suggest you consider installing one of the other conversions available for your vehicle? The initial cost differential, I believe to be modest. But the mechanical quality differences are substantial. Ultimately you should find the longevity, performance and strength gains to be well worth the minimal cost and time spent up front. After all "doing the job right the first time" is generally the most cost effective.

If you have any other questions or would like to place an order, it may be best to call.

Please include this text in all replies.

Tom Wood
Tom Wood's Custom Drive Shafts Inc.
Toll Free US 1-877-497-4238
Worldwide 801-737-0757
 
While I respect Tom's opinion, I have to wonder how much damage I'm going to do with my rig that is driven <3000 miles a year and spends most of it's time under 2000 rpm in low range?

I think his advice makes sense for someone with a daily driver but for those of us that can quantify the risks and then mitigate them by driving less, the method we've been discussing is still a viable option.
 
Well... my RE hack-n-tap on my 231 has lasted over 5 years, 44,000 miles, 2 different lift heights, 3 different tire sizes, two different gearing ratios, etc etc and I have had ZERO problems with it.

I'm not saying Tom Woods is wrong either, but this would be my rebuttal to his 3 listed issues.

1. Sure many people have botched the install and ruined their shaft. But this is the persons fault for being careless or not following instructions etc. If done properly it will work.

2. The weight of a CV joint is indeed more than the weight of the single cardan joint the stock shaft uses. However... with the H+T SYE, the output shaft is shorter and can handle more weight without bending. True that the H+T is not the strongest SYE design, but I think it is stronger than the stock driveline, not weaker.

3. The exact same conditions would then also apply to any stock slip yoke, where the splined yoke fits over the output shaft. Do the splines on the RE flange have more play versus the stock slip yoke?

I agree with him that there are better SYE's out there, and if I had to do mine again I would probably go with a HD SYE this time around. Not because it doesn't work, but because back then I had no idea my Jeep would be built as much as it is today. I installed it when I had 31's and thought maybe someday I'll go to 33's... :)
 
Gojeep said:
Very easy to get it dead straight anyway if you cut it while the shaft is spinning in reverse while idling. Can't cut it crooked if you tried. See my site for full details. www.go.jeep-xj.info


Thanks Gojeep that is exactly what I was trying to convey in my post. The only thing about the tapping is to go slowly and back the tap out every little bit maybe every quarter turn and use plenty of cutting oil (your choice).
Use a good quality tap and no lateral torque, in other words, keep it straight.
 
Gojeep said:
Very easy to get it dead straight anyway if you cut it while the shaft is spinning in reverse while idling. Can't cut it crooked if you tried. See my site for full details. www.go.jeep-xj.info

What he said. Worked like a charm. Just installed a Teraflex SYE kit though and it's not hard either. Personally, if I could it over again on my HnT t-case, I would have just bought the SYE kit and replace the output shaft.
 
I'm cofident in mine.. 4 years abuse. 2 gear ratios, 3 tire sizes. my driveline is smoother than my buddys factory 01.
 
Very confident here as well.
I followed the write up on DPG Offroad's site and it went smoother than I could have asked for. Made a very straight cut and got the hole centered no problem.
I wouldn't hesitate to do it agian if I had to.
It is pretty intimidating making that cut though! :laugh:



Hale
 
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