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xraydivr
March 19th, 2007, 07:07
ok i just finnish my lift and went to take of old shocks in the rear 3 of the 4 top bolts broke off bad news right? not as bad as you would think. i went on naxja and did a search and found 1 thread with a few ideas all but 1 really sucked, such as cutting holes in the floor for access ect. yeah right! this 1 guy had it down perfect take 1 bfh ( big f$%^$ hammer) and a large punch or screwdriver and place over old nut.3 or 4 good whacks and the welded nuts poped right off. ok now your thinking how do you reach inside and line up new ones since the only holes in the frame are about 6" away. this was the real genius part just tape the new nut into a wrench and slide it right into place. the whole process took about an hour for all 4 . all the other guys were talking about 3 days of pb blaster and torches next to the gas tank ect. what a crok of s$%^. also i would add
that plated bolts and some anti seizing compound will aid in the future if you have to take them off again.

Bouncy
March 19th, 2007, 07:29
You could have put the air gun on tighten...Tap it with the gun a couple of times and then reverse. If it seems to bind up, go forward again and then reverse.

We got out 3 of the 4 bolts using this method. Only reason the 4th one broke was we forgot to do the forward/tighten hit first and hit reverse instead which snapped the bolt instantly.

ghettocruiser
March 19th, 2007, 08:01
I dont even bother anymore... I just put a wrench on them and go to town. If they break great. If they dont break...great. I want them to break...

My next step is an air chisel with a pointed bit. A few seconds with that and the nuts will pop out. Then I just nuts taped into an open end wrench. Very easy to hold them up into place and use a bolt to tighten them up.

I use good hardware, usually metric. I think 8x1.25 for those. And I use the nuts with the flange that has ridges on it...sort of like a lock nut. Then I use bolts with a flange head as well. Dont have to worry about holding washers in place or anything.

I find that doing this does two things. First, if you want them to break, you wont be upset when they do. Second, if you set out to do it this way, then when they do break, you'll be a step ahead and get the job done much faster. haha.

J.

TheWarWagon
March 19th, 2007, 09:06
Holy Run-On sentence, Batman!

Rick Anderson
March 19th, 2007, 09:19
I broke 3 out of 4 shock bolts. One I was able to drill out and remove what was left of the bolt without damaging the threads (Luckily on the same side as the already good one.) The other side, the bit drifted off and the bolt wouldn't break up or come away from the threads, I ended destroying the threads on both nutserts on the passenger side.

I went to town for an hour with an Air-Impact Wrench w/ pointed bit for an hour and both nutserts did NOT budge.

My brothers Jeep Wrangler, we used the same Air Chisel w/ pointed bit and it removed the broken bolt nutserts in seconds.

Since I was already patching rust holes in the floorpan, I figured another hole wouldn't be a big deal. So I cut a hole and went in from the top.

Holy Crap, this wasn't a nutsert, it was some hunk of steel somewhat in the shape of a nut, but twice as wide. The other nutserts I had hammered/air chiseled out, looked like regular nuts spot welded in. In this case, my shock nuts looked like some huge nut. It took forever to grind down, I had to cut as much off as possible with a high speed grinder and then grind down the remaining.

Yes, I've removed nutserts with a couple whacks of BFH or Air Chisel w/ pointed bit. For some reason my shock nuts on my '95 Cherokee were different and would not budge by that method. I can't believe mine is the only one like that.

Oh, and Anti-Seize on the Rear Shock Bolts, I prefer Blue Thread Locker. The Thread Locker will seal out moisture and prevent the bolt from seizing, plus keep it from working loose in that hi vibe/stress environment. You could argue the Anti-Seize, although effect in preventing the seizing, might allow the bolt to loosen up some. As well, torques (unless specified) are always dry torques, anti-seize reduces friction quite a bit and it possible to overtorque threads using spec torques and anti-seize, seen recommendation to decrease spec torque by 15%-25% when using Anti-Seize to get the same crush/pressure on the threads. But, admittedly, you probably would NOT run into any problem using the Anti-Seize on the shock bolts if you choose that.

CJ's98XJ
March 19th, 2007, 18:02
There is no need to go tearin yur rig up. Use a goog drill bit and SLOWLY and I mean painfully SLOWLY, drill out the old bolt. These are carbon steel. If you drill quickly it will just temper them further and make them harder then your drill bit. Then just run a tapp up through the nutsert to clean out the threads. Replace the carbon steel bout with a high grade stainless one.

Blaine B.
March 19th, 2007, 18:30
The shocks on my XJ were replaced sometime before I got it.......all of the bolts were snapped. They just drilled through the floor and put the bolts in through the top with the nuts on the bottom. No problemo!

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 05:08
There is no need to go tearin yur rig up. Use a goog drill bit and SLOWLY and I mean painfully SLOWLY, drill out the old bolt. These are carbon steel. If you drill quickly it will just temper them further and make them harder then your drill bit. Then just run a tapp up through the nutsert to clean out the threads. Replace the carbon steel bout with a high grade stainless one.

Dude, I hear where you are comin from... But doing what some of us described isnt "tearing up the rig". If you want to sit under there with a drill and pain stakenly do that to 4 nutserts, then do it again with a tap, go for it.

But to me, knocking out the nutserts and using nuts is quicker, easier, and will last longer. I had to do the same thing with one of my crossmember bolts... Anyway, what happens when you spend all that time tapping those nutserts and they still just break loose. Now you have a problem, because atleast on my jeep they werent nuts tacked up there. They were just threaded cylinders. It would be fun trying to grab them and turn the bolt out.

Either solution is a good one, and I dont think that either of them constitutes a hack job or tearing stuff up. Ive done probably 4 XJs that way with no issues.

Rick Anderson
March 20th, 2007, 05:55
Those that have knocked out their nutserts, what did those nutserts look like?? Pretty much regular 3/8" Nuts??

Am I the only one that had the Nutsert on Steriods, about 3 times the size of normal Nut, that would not knock out, even with an Air Chisel? Mine looked more like 5/8" thick plate roughly cut into a hexagon (at least twice the width of a normal 3/8" nut) and drilled/tapped at the center.

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 08:24
Mine on my 94 were just round pieces of metal with a threaded hole. The ones that I just knocked out on a 00 seemed like they may have had flat sides. Didnt really take much notice to them. But I do remember one being alittle crazy looking.

I absolutely cant stand nuts that are welded from behind like that. Just that if something happens, its a ton more work to fix it. Like the front leaf spring bolts. If that nut comes loose from its welds, its a chore to fix. Just give access to the nuts darn it!!


Justin

Blaine B.
March 20th, 2007, 11:28
Just give access to the nuts darn it!!

Then the dealer wouldn't be able to gouge you for more hours of work when the average driver brings it in for service :eek:

fubar XJ
March 20th, 2007, 11:40
Wait, tape a nut to a box end wrench and stick it up there?


Anyone have pics, because that doesn't make any sense to me.

Rick Anderson
March 20th, 2007, 11:47
Makes sense to me, you can get a wrench just barely up in there.

Never worked for me, because I had massive nutserts that would not come out even with a air chisel. I had to go in from the top and grind them out, so while I was there, I welded them in place and then welded a patch panel back over the opening.

fubar XJ
March 20th, 2007, 11:52
Makes sense to me, you can get a wrench just barely up in there.

Never worked for me, because I had massive nutserts that would not come out even with a air chisel. I had to go in from the top and grind them out, so while I was there, I welded them in place and then welded a patch panel back over the opening.

I must not be picturing it correctly. If you've hammered out the old nutsert, and are putting an open end wrench with a new nut taped to it up in the hole, what holds the nut once you put the new shock and bolt in there? i.e., if the hole is big enough to put a wrench in there, where's the base metal that the new nut tightens down against?

Like I said, I must not be picturing it right. I'm sure it'll all be clear when I replace my shocks during my lift install in a couple of weeks.

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 11:57
You gotta crawl under there and take a look. It will be really obvious.

Basically, the upper shock mount is bolted to a piece of reinforcement...not to the actual body. You will be able to sneak a wrench up between the body and this shock reinforcement... The nut will rest against teh same spot that the nutsert did. Just use the proper sized hardware and it will be stronger and more reliable than before.

The best thing to use, nut wise, is one that has a flange on the bottom. That way it will sit in the wrench, and cant get pushed up through the wrench. The tape is used over top of the wrench and nut...holding the nut into the wrench as you snake into place.

If you do it once, the next time will only take you a few minutes. In fact, I can use my fingers to line up two of the 4 nuts...dont even need to use the tape trick.

Justin

89xj
March 20th, 2007, 11:59
I must not be picturing it correctly. If you've hammered out the old nutsert, and are putting an open end wrench with a new nut taped to it up in the hole, what holds the nut once you put the new shock and bolt in there? i.e., if the hole is big enough to put a wrench in there, where's the base metal that the new nut tightens down against?

Like I said, I must not be picturing it right. I'm sure it'll all be clear when I replace my shocks during my lift install in a couple of weeks.

you put the wrench in from the sides where it is too small for your hand to fit, but you can slide a wrench in far enough.

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 12:04
Hey...found a pic. Its not a great pic. But you'll be able to see how the holes for the upper mounts are just in this lower reinforcment steel... If you look through those holes, the metal you see is the floor pan. You would sneak the wrench in from the side and come between these two pieces. Its really not hard... I wouldnt even really consider it "sneaking". LIke I said, I can get a couple of them with my fingers.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/jeepguy25/Jeep/DSCF0008.jpg

J.

Rick Anderson
March 20th, 2007, 12:14
LIke I said, I can get a couple of them with my fingers.
You must have some thin hands. You can get a wrench in there.

There is clamshell or "C" channel piece of metal that runs across the floorpan. It has openings in the center but closed up on the ends where the shock bolts up too. The openings are just far enough away, that you can't get a hand in there to touch the bolts, unless you have thin hands, but you should be able to get a wrench in there.

OH, and ALWAYS USE GRADE 8 (SAE) or GRADE/HARDNESS 10.8 (METRIC) FOR SUSPENSION HARDWARE, NOT SURE, DON'T USE IT, GET SOME THAT YOU ARE SURE ARE THE PROPER STRENGTH. It wouldn't hurt to get the NUTS that are flared on the bottom, to spread out the force on the sheetmetal, or use an equal strength washer. Even though its thick metal, its still sheet metal, the relatively narrow footprint of a typical nut alone, may concentrate the force and do some undesirable things, like cracks, dig into the metal and loosen up, etc.

Some Blue Thread Locker will also help seal out the weather, so it won't rust and seize up again, as well keep it from loosening.

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 12:31
Well im 6'4... I wouldnt say my fingers are "thin"... but they are long. I can just barely use my finger tips to position the nuts where they need to be. However...its quicker than using a wrench because I can control my fingers easier. I can only get two of them tho.

J.

CJ's98XJ
March 20th, 2007, 13:16
Ghettocruiser,

Maybe the term "tearin up yur rig" wasn't the best choice. Doing what you had suggested wouldn't be a "hack job" as long as it was done by somone who knows what they are doing. I assume that you know what you are doing. But lots of people read these forums that don't. I think some are just lookin for excuses to fix what just ain't broke. Their rigs look like old swiss cheese and they wonder why, over time, they fall apart around them. (This usually occurs on the trail, in front of me and somewhere it is too tight to get around.) I'm not into modifying anything I don't have to , when I can achieve the same result with just a little patience. I may not take all the agressive lines or mash the skinny pedal too much, but my Jeep is stout and strong and I know the skinny pedal is there when I need it. It's been around for bout 10 years and I plan to have it in my stable for 10 more.

By no means was I calling your work "hacking". If my nutserts ever decide to crap out, I'll happily put your ideas to work. Maybe you can come autograph it for me. Or maybe a Ghettocruiser "I hate nutserts!!" sticker.

Keep thinkin outside the box. It's always good to hear somone's ideas.

CJ's98XJ
March 20th, 2007, 13:26
If you go the sliding new nuts in from the side route, you can drill a 1/4" hole in disk of sheet metal and carefuly glue the nut to it over the hole with some red lock-tite. the sheet metal will 1: Spread spread the force over a greater area, hopefuly avoiding stressing or cracking / splitting the sheet metal and 2: You could shape it to extend your reach to get the nut into place.

fubar XJ
March 20th, 2007, 13:44
Ah, it makes sense now. Thanks for the pic. From the sound of the previous posts, I assumed the nutsert was behind the shell of the undercarriage sheetmetal body, but it's actually got a bracket that has limited access from two sides.

ghettocruiser
March 20th, 2007, 15:05
By no means was I calling your work "hacking". If my nutserts ever decide to crap out, I'll happily put your ideas to work. Maybe you can come autograph it for me. Or maybe a Ghettocruiser "I hate nutserts!!" sticker.

Keep thinkin outside the box. It's always good to hear somone's ideas.

Haha I wasnt callin you out or takin offense to the "tearing up rig" thing. Ill happliy sign whatever you want. But it'll be $5 per shock bolt and "I Hate Nutserts!" stickers are $10 a piece :)

And youre right, there are some guys new to wrenching that might not know too much yet...but Im willing to be that even a newbie can knock a welded nut out of the way, then fish a new nut up with a wrench. Where as drilling and tapping out a hole might be more challenging for a new guy...not to mention trying to do it while upside down holding your arms over your head working in a crappy area... Just sayin...

New ideas are great! CJ's98XJ you also touched on an idea that I was thinking of too. Sort of like the lower track bar bolt nut, or the body side upper control arm mount... Almost like permanently attaching the wrench to the nut...but use sheet steel instead of the wrench, then the steel will spin til it hits and hold the nut while you tighten.

It would also be nice to bolt something into place, that stays up there, then when you want to remove the shock you unbolt it from the new part. Sort of like a bar pin eliminator... But so you dont have to unbolt those upper ones anymore.

So many solutions..so little time!

J.

no_gamecocks
March 20th, 2007, 17:36
The shocks on my XJ were replaced sometime before I got it.......all of the bolts were snapped. They just drilled through the floor and put the bolts in through the top with the nuts on the bottom. No problemo!
That's hillarious AND that's exactly what I did. Broke 3 of 4 bolts and ruined a an ez-out trying to remove the first one. Said 'screw it' and drilled right through the floor. Thing is, the sway bar discos that came with my FT suspension I wasn't using anyway... turns out the top mounting thingies are the exact same thing as the 'upper shock conversion' that a lot of the vendors sell (although the length of the bolt is a little short). Like this if you can see it...
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/no_gamecocks/Misc/shock1.jpg
note how the top is mounted in above photo
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o273/no_gamecocks/Misc/shock2.jpg
right throught the floor. a slightly longer bolt would've been easier, but it works

95&01xj
March 20th, 2007, 17:42
that looks great and very strong

95&01xj
March 20th, 2007, 17:45
is that hard to do i am fifting my 01 and know i am going to break the bolts already they look pretty bad