AX 15 gear oil

I just came across PEnzoil Synchromesh... it said that is specifically made to meet and exceed Chrysler specs for (both numbers came of the bottle):
4874464
ms9224

Do those numbers look familiar to anyone? Is it a good replacement oil that will satisfy our GL3 standards?

Kejtar

After pulling the Pennzoil spec sheet for Synchromesh, I Googled for MS-9224.

First link was http://www.nagca.com/grandtech/JeepTrans Fluids.pdf which looks like a scanned Mopar publication.

If it is the real thing, then Synchromesh probably isn't for the AX15, but will work in the NV3500.

Here's a straight link for the Pennzoil spec sheet (I had to go through a search engine):http://www.pennzoil-quakerstate.com...te/Gear&Transmission/pdf/SynchromeshFluid.PDF

Googling for MS-9684 yielded nothing that looked promising.

ChiXJeff

Hmm.... and I was hoping for a less expensive alternative... oh well

btt

Has anyone done any follow-up on this? Where are guys like Rags and MJR when we need them? Is there a Mopar tech out therewho can call the Mopar Star Tech line and ask about this?

I was looking at this juice for the Peugeot tranny. The bottle specifically says it

"Provides excellent oxidation stability, low temperature performance, synchronizer performance and is compatible with yellow metals, such as bronze, brass and copper components found in manual transaxles and transmissions."

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Sure would be nice if it would be acceptable for the older manual trannies.

I can call star tech hotline but why bother!?. They will simply say use the mopar brand and everything else is not recommended.:bunny:

Mopar sells a manual transmission gear lube. What spec is it? If it is MS9224, then the question for Star Tech is -- can MS9224-spec manual tranny lube be used in the AX-15 and BA10/5 manual transmissions?

UPDATE

I just spent a couple of very frustrating hours on the phone and Internet, talking to both DaimlerChrysler and Pennzoil. Here's what I seem to have found out:

(1) The Pennzoil "Synchromesh Manual TRansmission Fluid" product, which meets Mopar spec MS9224, does NOT contain any extreme pressure additives and can be used only in the NVG3500, 3550, and 4500 transmissions. It is not suitable for use in the other manual transmissions.

(2) Chrysler tech has no idea what to use in the Peugeot BA-10/5 transmission. The FSM calls for 75W90 GL-5 and that's all the guy knew. However, that's the product that eats synchronizers, and the tranny shifts hard with that lube. The Pennzoil engineer said to use 75W90 GL-5 for the BA-10/5.

(3) According to DaimlerChrysler, the AX-4, AX-5 and AX-15 should use the Mopar product meeting spec MS9684, which is rated as a 75W90 GL-3 lubricant. HOWEVER, according to the engineer at Pennzoil (who claims to have all the tech bulletins from DaimlerChysler, that product should be used only in the AX-series trannies 1998 and newer, and the older ones should use 75W90 GL-5 gear lube (which is what the '94 FSM calls for.

Now I'm thoroughly confused. I can put the bottle of Pennzoil juice on the shelf for the 2000 XJ, but I don't know what I should be using in the older ones. Where can I buy Red Line?

According to my service fluid tech card the proper fluid for all
AX transmissions is MS-9684 or mopar part#4897622AA GL-3 gear lube. There is no listing for BA/5 trans!:bunny:

Eagle: Red Line should be available in a performance shop. Alternatively, if you have a motorcycle place around (that caters to the sport-bike crowd) they should have it, it's very popular for bikes, that's where I learned how damn good the stuff is! (600cc motor that had been run hard for about 12k, had to be rebuilt because an SOB dumped a peice of metal into one of the carbs, intentionally, took out a valve seat.! Anyway, my buddy and I took the head off, cylindars looked brand new.)

The Peugeot BA10/5 transmission use Mopar® 75W - 90, API Grade GL - 5.

The AX 4/5/15 from 91-96 use Mopar® 75W - 90, API Grade GL - 5.

The AX 5/15 from 97-01 use Mopar® 75W - 90, API Grade GL - 3.

There are some TSB's over the years stating not to use additives or any other viscosity fluid in these transmissions. JE-05B-89, JE-50A-89, JE-27B-90, and 21-03-93.

On the subject of current fluid recommendation I believe They may recommend the later GL - 3 but I will have to check this for myself.

So, it's the 97+ AX-15's which use GL-3?

Thanks for clearing that up, Mike. With all of the static floating around about this, I was starting to get concerned that I used GL-5 in my '92.

Mike in NJ atriot:

MJR could you confirm that again please? I'da sworn the older AX-15's used the GL-3 and the newer ones use the GL-5. I thought the GL-5 superseded the GL-3. I'm sooo confused now. Thanks. TC

I jusy checked Red-Lines site, it does not address the GL-3 issue specifically. Is Red-Line supposed to be the way to go in these tranny's, if so which PN is the correct one. BTW, they list Summit as a dealer for their products. TC

It's all hearsay.. but I did hear of someone ruining the tranny with redline
Personally I think I will stick with the oem oil just to be one the safe side..

Kejtar

Kejtar said:

It's all hearsay.. but I did hear of someone ruining the tranny with redline
Personally I think I will stick with the oem oil just to be one the safe side..

Kejtar

Click to expand...

But WHICH OEM oil? It appears that Mopar offers at least two and possibly three different manual tranny gear lubes. I'm hoping MJR can get a more complete answer from the Mopar Star Tech answer line. Until then, I'm more confused than I was before. (Actually, until Kejtar opened up this thread I wasn't at all confused. I was quite sure of what to use ... unfortunately, it appears I was also completely wrong.)

Yeah... it is a bit confusing as the same AX15 takes different gear throughout the years

When I go to the dealership though the quart bottle that I buy does specifically say AX15 on it...

Kejtar

TC NAXJA Member said:

MJR could you confirm that again please? I'da sworn the older AX-15's used the GL-3 and the newer ones use the GL-5. I thought the GL-5 superseded the GL-3. I'm sooo confused now. Thanks. TC

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Ok I have already verified this information based on all the service/owners manuals for these years. I cannot tell you several things right now like why was the fluid spec changed and can GL-3 be used as a replacement. I have a call into an engineer at DC about these questions.

If I remember correctly there was a discussion a while back about this topic and supposedly the unoficial explanation that was given to a guy who went through 2 trannies by the dealership was that there was a typo in the manuals for 2 or 3 years..... Few people caught it as quite few rarely change gear oil in the tranny..... but some do. In any case on a second rebuilt the guy said that the tranny came with a hand writtne note stapled to the packing material saying to use specifically GL3 oil....

Now that's all I now

Kejtar

I'm with ya Eagle, up until now I thought I had all of this correct in my head, now I'm not so sure. Here's what got me checking into this; last night a buddy called and asked me the details of the GL-3 issue since we had talked about it a year or so ago. He just finished tearing down his '94 AX-15 (YJ,same tranny) and found all the teeth on the syncros were worn away, everything else looked perfectly fine. He has plenty of experience with different types of manual trans and has never seen this before. The fact that only the brass was worn sounded exactly like the problems described by the GL-3/GL-5 lube misapplications.
As I understood it, the type of brass used in the different years was affected by the amount of EP additive in the gear oil, the higher the number the greater amount of EP in the oil. GL-1 had none and GL-5 having the most. If you want to really screw up yer brain, some drivetrain mfgr's even recommended using 50wt detergent motor oil instead of 90wt gear lube in manual transmission applications (not diffs tho). 50wt motor oil is close to the same viscosity as 90wt gear lube,they're measured differently.
Anxiously awaiting the straight scoop..... TC

Yeah, and the Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid not only does not have any EP additives, it also doesn't list any viscosity index rating.

I'm very tempted to buy a gallon of GearMoly and run that along with the Pennzoil stuff. I sure hope MJR comes up with something definitive.