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44/9 disc brakes are spongie

POLAR_JEEP_04

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Ohio
I have been running a 44/9 combo for over a year now and disc braked the 9". I have little to no pedal but it still stops. All my lines are good and the system has been bled multiple times. My jeep is a 97 with the stock booster and master cylinder. I think with the calipers all being dual pistons I need to up grade my master to push more pressure. I have searched and seen people recommend durango masters but I can find what year and when I looked up a 97 it looked like its the same as the XJ master. Has anyone else had this issue and what do I need to do to get my pedal back?
 
Grab a '99 Dodge 2500 master, bolts right up in stock local, fittings and all. You'll need a 1/4"-28 bolt to extend the push-rod about 9/16" to 5/8". Simple & Easy.
 
My research inidcates you want the durango MC with 1 1/8 bore. There are 3 different MC available from the durango. I Have the seame setup... and that is what I am planning on doing.
 
You can take out your pressure metering valve out of your proportioning valve and take the o-ring off of it. Since your proportioning valve is set up for a vehicle with rear drum brakes that don't need as much fluid, swapping in discs in the rear needs more fluid to operate. Or find a proportioning valve that is set up for rear disc brakes....that would be a cheaper fix.
 
You can take out your pressure metering valve out of your proportioning valve and take the o-ring off of it. Since your proportioning valve is set up for a vehicle with rear drum brakes that don't need as much fluid, swapping in discs in the rear needs more fluid to operate. Or find a proportioning valve that is set up for rear disc brakes....that would be a cheaper fix.
This won't help much. His issue is the new brakes are MUCH larger than the factory originals and they are just going to require a larger volume of fluid and more pressure to work properly. He needs a bigger MC.
 
This won't help much. His issue is the new brakes are MUCH larger than the factory originals and they are just going to require a larger volume of fluid and more pressure to work properly. He needs a bigger MC.

This ^
 
This won't help much. His issue is the new brakes are MUCH larger than the factory originals and they are just going to require a larger volume of fluid and more pressure to work properly. He needs a bigger MC.

I think it will still help...but ok.
 
I just found out he had front f150 brakes and rear k20 brakes...so my route probably won't work, if he had zj brakes all the way around maybe, but not with the brake setup he is running now. Oops.
 
You need to know your caliper piston OD to determine what MC piston size you need. Too big an MC, and you won't produce enough system pressure to stop properly. 2-piston calipers don't necessarily mean larger total piston area than a single piston.
I've come up with these examples of single and dual piston calipers, including what size MC the OEM used:
Dual piston fronts with 1.181 OD have an area of 5.14 sq in and were used in an '03 Explorer, with an 1-1/16 MC.
The dual piston calipers with 2.18 OD pistons have an area of 7.46 sq in, may use an MC larger than 1-1/16, but maybe not.
A 2.934 single piston caliper off a 1/2-ton '79 Chevy has 6.8 sq in, and used a 1-1/8 MC; the 3/4-ton '79 Chevy with 3.14" caliper piston has an area 7.7 sq in and used an MC with a 1-1/4 piston.
Remember, the trucks these calipers/MC's came out of generally have much larger brake boosters than will fit in an XJ, or use hydro boost. So, while you may be able to bolt in the 1-1/4 MC, you probably won't be able to produce adequate pressure in the system. If you install calipers that require MC's 1-1/4, or larger, due to required volume increases, you may need to use hydro boost instead of vacuum boost.
I'm using the '79 Chevy 1/2-ton brakes along with a 1-1/8 Durango MC bolted to a late model XJ booster. My pedal is firm, and requires a little effort to lock-em up; could be I'd be better off with a 1-1/16 MC.
 
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I'm going to go with the dodge 2500 MC. The durango I looked up is a 1.062" bore and my stock XJ is 1" so I doubt .062" will be enough to make a difference. Ill update and let everyone know how it works out and maybe do a write up if there isn't one already
 
You need to know your caliper piston OD to determine what MC piston size you need. Too big an MC, and you won't produce enough system pressure to stop properly. 2-piston calipers don't necessarily mean larger total piston area than a single piston.
I've come up with these examples of single and dual piston calipers, including what size MC the OEM used:
Dual piston fronts with 1.181 OD have an area of 5.14 sq in and were used in an '03 Explorer, with an 1-1/16 MC.
The dual piston calipers with 2.18 OD pistons have an area of 7.46 sq in, may use an MC larger than 1-1/16, but maybe not.
A 2.934 single piston caliper off a 1/2-ton '79 Chevy has 6.8 sq in, and used a 1-1/8 MC; the 3/4-ton '79 Chevy with 3.14" caliper piston has an area 7.7 sq in and used an MC with a 1-1/4 piston.
Remember, the trucks these calipers/MC's came out of generally have much larger brake boosters than will fit in an XJ, or use hydro boost. So, while you may be able to bolt in the 1-1/4 MC, you probably won't be able to produce adequate pressure in the system. If you install calipers that require MC's 1-1/4, or larger, due to required volume increases, you may need to use hydro boost instead of vacuum boost.
I'm using the '79 Chevy 1/2-ton brakes along with a 1-1/8 Durango MC bolted to a late model XJ booster. My pedal is firm, and requires a little effort to lock-em up; could be I'd be better off with a 1-1/16 MC.
While I agree hydroboost is king over vacuum assist (drive pretty much any diesel pickup and then its gas counterpart), I don't see a need unless he's swapping everything out (steering pump, resi, ect).
I have no issues with my 39.5" PBRs using the '99 Ram 2500 MS (1 1/4" bore), Ford F350 Twin Pistons up front & late Chevy singles out back (similar to what Polar is running). You do make a good point about the twins though, just because it has two pistons doesn't mean it need more pressure than its single counterpart, but in this case I believe it does.

Too big an MC isn't going to make you not stop, it'll just make the pedal very firm. I think you'll find a variety of MCs to caliper piston sizes because of the vehicles they came out of and the prop valves in them.

That said, is it smart to try and calculate it out? Probably, but I think so many of us have tried these combos before it pretty much has been nailed down. An early Vette, late Durango, or Ram MC are the easiest options and will give you the range of MC sizes.

A buddy of mine has the same brakes on the axles as me with a PSC/Ford hydroboost setup, plain and simple, it rocks. A bit more costly though.
I'm going to go with the dodge 2500 MC. The durango I looked up is a 1.062" bore and my stock XJ is 1" so I doubt .062" will be enough to make a difference. Ill update and let everyone know how it works out and maybe do a write up if there isn't one already
I personally think that is a wise choice, but so you know there is also a 1 1/8" Durango MC as well as a 15/16", but you wouldn't want the later. :laugh:
 
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I am pretty sure that there is an extra hydro boost setup sitting back at my parents house. new in container. It was supposed to be for My parents 1995 suburban, but it was easier to make an o-ring than it was to replace the whole unit. I wonder...
 
I am pretty sure that there is an extra hydro boost setup sitting back at my parents house. new in container. It was supposed to be for My parents 1995 suburban, but it was easier to make an o-ring than it was to replace the whole unit. I wonder...

You wonder.... What my shipping address is?!
:D
 
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