People break 231's over and over...

...so why not a 241? I know that the 241OR and 4:1 241J are desireable for obvious reasons, but why do people prefer to break a 231 and then replace it with another 231 when they know they are already driving beyond the strength of a 231?

Is there a reason why people do not use 241's that I just haven't come across yet? Tunnel clearance, etc?

Most of the breakage I've seen with 231s is people not maintaining them. Old chains, bad bearings, running them low on fluid, not replacing seals, running tons of lift with no SYE...

People were using the 231s and 242s years before the 241OR came out. Not sure what problem we're actually solving...

I believe $$ is the main reason people dont upgrade.

What are these failures you keep seeing on the 231? Very rarely have I seen the case itself fail...

And I think part of it is any of the 241 stuff is a bunch of work and $$ to still be stuck with a crappy chain drive.

ECKSJAY said:

Most of the breakage I've seen with 231s is people not maintaining them. Old chains, bad bearings, running them low on fluid, not replacing seals, running tons of lift with no SYE...

People were using the 231s and 242s years before the 241OR came out. Not sure what problem we're actually solving...

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I agree with those points (especially the maintenance one), but I'm referring to a standard 2.72:1 241, which would be significantly less expensive than the OR or 4:1 J.

Dewidge said:

I believe $$ is the main reason people dont upgrade.

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That's what most people usually tell me, but when a 2.72:1 241DLD is $100-$150 (maybe $200 if its nice?), where's the break point? I'm sure prices cary around the country and it nice if you can score a super-cheap 231 from a friend, but how man times do you want to replace or fix that bitch if there's an opportunity to install a stronger & affordable option?

I have a zero-mile 2.72:1 241J sitting around that I have been trying to sell for a while. I picked it up as a spare and I don't have an immedate use for it. My XJ will finally be coming back from the shop soon and I'm now kicking around the idea of replacing my 242 w/TW SYE with it since part-time is more desireable in the event I decide to sell the entire vehicle (too many vehicles & projects). I haven't done the legwork yet, but I plan to look into whether the slip yoke on the 241J I have can be eliminated with Rubicon factory fixed rear output parts.

Is it only the money, or is it a functionality/compatibility problem? Are there reasons why you can't install or would not want to install a 23-spline 241? Any required mods to the body, etc? I was assuming there weren't interferences since the 242 is aleady in there and people already use the OR.

actually you can put the 241 guts into the 231 case.

2 major weak link is the chain and the planetary gears. which when i did my SYE on my 231 and i saw that there's only 3 gears in the planteary gear assembly, while obviously there's other 3 are missing. and the 241 parts can be fitted in there IIRC. also the stock 231 chain is 1" wide, but the 241 is 1.25" wide, which is stronger.

what i know from this, is from im from other forum for the BlaZeR-2 and S-10 ZR-2, in our research that in older S-series (late 80's and early 90's) came with t-case thats called NP-231HD and the "HD" means it does have that full 6 planteary gears and wider chain. if the 241 parts dont swap in, id think a NP-231HD from a S-series can be gutted and be put into the jeep t-case shouldnt be a problem then hopefully.

btw in case anyone dont know, the JEEP and the CHEVY/GMC t-case isnt same as one is 5 bolt, and other is 6 bolt pattern for mounting to the adaptor on the jeep.

i will want to upgrade my T-case someday to strengthen it as im planning to run some 37's with F-250 axles in future, but as is, it should hold fine.

95' heep said:

actually you can put the 241 guts into the 231 case.

2 major weak link is the chain and the planetary gears. which when i did my SYE on my 231 and i saw that there's only 3 gears in the planteary gear assembly, while obviously there's other 3 are missing. and the 241 parts can be fitted in there IIRC. also the stock 231 chain is 1" wide, but the 241 is 1.25" wide, which is stronger.

what i know from this, is from im from other forum for the BlaZeR-2 and S-10 ZR-2, in our research that in older S-series (late 80's and early 90's) came with t-case thats called NP-231HD and the "HD" means it does have that full 6 planteary gears and wider chain. if the 241 parts dont swap in, id think a NP-231HD from a S-series can be gutted and be put into the jeep t-case shouldnt be a problem then hopefully.

btw in case anyone dont know, the JEEP and the CHEVY/GMC t-case isnt same as one is 5 bolt, and other is 6 bolt pattern for mounting to the adaptor on the jeep.

i will want to upgrade my T-case someday to strengthen it as im planning to run some 37's with F-250 axles in future, but as is, it should hold fine.

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There was a NP-241DHD put behind the Cummins diesel too before they made the hop to the 271
t-cases are $50 a pop at my pick and pull, found one in the back of a cherokee that someone only wanted the trans out of. best pull ever. i need to find a 241HD to grab the planetaries and chain out of to swap my stock 231. right now, it is my "spare" just in case my current one pukes.

95' heep said:

actually you can put the 241 guts into the 231 case.

Click to expand...

I guess there would be a benefit to that if you didn;t want to roll the dice on disturbing the clocking or if you scored the 241 cheap and your 231 was still good.

95' heep said:

what i know from this, is from im from other forum for the BlaZeR-2 and S-10 ZR-2, in our research that in older S-series (late 80's and early 90's) came with t-case thats called NP-231HD and the "HD" means it does have that full 6 planteary gears and wider chain. if the 241 parts dont swap in, id think a NP-231HD from a S-series can be gutted and be put into the jeep t-case shouldnt be a problem then hopefully.

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Yes. I've seen a bunch of people do this on my local board while they had their 231's apart. 2nd-gen Dodge Ram 1500s (and maybe V8 Dakotas) also use the 231HD, but (IIRC) that one has the 6-bolt NP pattern on the front. I have a buddy that stockpiles the things because he keeps blowing them up in his Ram. He's spent way more money on all the used ones than he would have on a 241DLD, not to mention all the time & effort to replace/repair them + wheeling/bogging days ended early by a failure and then having to get the vehicle home. That's more of what I'm weighing thigs against. Some people enjoy wrenching, but there comes a point when it gets old and your time is not worth it.

tomcat said:

There was a NP-241DHD put behind the Cummins diesel too before they made the hop to the 271
t-cases are $50 a pop at my pick and pull, found one in the back of a cherokee that someone only wanted the trans out of. best pull ever. i need to find a 241HD to grab the planetaries and chain out of to swap my stock 231. right now, it is my "spare" just in case my current one pukes.

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The 241DHD's are not something to go searching for. The difference between those and the DLD is the higher fluid capacity, the third bearing on the rear output, and that they apparently all break housings (common problem in 2500 plow trucks). Its not just the Cummins Rams that had them. There were V8 and V10 models, also. I removed the DLD in my V10 2500HD for the DHD and it was basically a waste of time (or more that there was no real reason to do it). The DHD is also known to leak out its fluid through the rear seals when in use, which you won't necessarily notice. That's one of the reasons they fail and crack. The DLD is back in my truck now after mine went dry and wore out the fork tabs.

However, if you're scoring 241DHD's at $50 a pop, buy as many as you can. Core 241DHD's with uncracked cases go for $300 just because the case is intact. I've both sold core 241DHD's for $300 (and it flew out the door) and had junkyards knock $300 off a functional one that was $600 because I had an uncracked core. Landscapers that plow in the winter are always needing them and sometimes buy them in advance from the junkyards at the beginning of the season in my area of the country.

My 231 failed me... it blew apart while towing my tent trailer up the mountain. From what I've seen in the wrecking yard it looks like there's a factory defect of cracking of the case as I found 2 or 3 in the wreckers with cracks.

but how man times do you want to replace or fix that bitch if there's an opportunity to install a stronger & affordable option
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Very few people wheel that hard. Chains are the big problem around here and that's on Tcases that are 10 year old or more. IMO I see little need to upgrade any part that last that long or longer.
2: IMO the only real OUT OF THE BOX upgrade is an Atlas or like. Even the D300 needs some help to really rise above allmost any NP.
\At the cost of a GOOD used Atlas I could get 3 to 5 NPs.Also tanking into account how easy they are to change. I just don't see the need for MOST people to upgrade. The NP is a good tcase for most.

I've seen Dana 30's, Dana 44's, and Ford 9" axles break when the 231 kept going strong. They aren't the weak link for most rigs. High mileage, lack of maintenance and poorly engineered drivelines have been responsible for the 231 failures I've witnessed.

I broke my 231, and replaced it with a standard 241 (2.72:1) from an 07 JK. It fit like a champ, except it didnt have speedo drive like the 231, 242, or 241OR has. On the JK, the speedo is driven off of the wheel. Other than not having a speedo, and having the eternal check engine light, it works great, and is WAAAAYY beefier than a standar 231.

Now I swapped the 241 standard out for the 241OR (rocktrack, 4:1) and I have the 241 standard as a spare. The 241 standard isnt that much cheaper than a 241 OR, but it depends on which vehicle you get it from.

Here is my broken 231... The case on a 241 (standard and OR) is atleast twice as thick, and not as porous.







~James

stumpXJ said:

I broke my 231, and replaced it with a standard 241 (2.72:1) from an 07 JK. It fit like a champ, except it didnt have speedo drive like the 231, 242, or 241OR has. On the JK, the speedo is driven off of the wheel. Other than not having a speedo, and having the eternal check engine light, it works great, and is WAAAAYY beefier than a standar 231.

Now I swapped the 241 standard out for the 241OR (rocktrack, 4:1) and I have the 241 standard as a spare. The 241 standard isnt that much cheaper than a 241 OR, but it depends on which vehicle you get it from.

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That's helpful, thanks. The one I have listed that I have been referring to is the standard 241J, but the application according to the labels is a 2005 CRD Liberty. I'm primarily a CJ guy and am not as familiar with the later cases, so I'll take a look at what the speedo drive setup is.

Yeah, I am not sure how the speedo works on a liberty, it may be just fine. But physically, it (standard 241) actually fits better than the 241OR. I can post a picture of the standard 241 I have as a spare if it helps for comparison to what you have. Also, I used 1310 CV yokes from Tom Woods for my standard 241, the same ones you get wen you go to the 241OR. No SYE needed, and my Tom Woods driveshafts fit just fine.

~James

Speedo on the libbys are from the rear axle sensor and a tone ring next to the ring gear

The cracks I see posted here can be stop by bracing the front driveshaft output part of the housing. Sorry, I cant find the right up on it right now.

badron said:

The cracks I see posted here can be stop by bracing the front driveshaft output part of the housing. Sorry, I cant find the right up on it right now.

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you mean that these bars (the t-case is from a chevy blazer, but still same thing)??

stumpXJ said:

~James

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This looks to me like the result of the driveshaft bottoming out in the splines and shoving itself rearward during suspension compression. I can think of no way that an interior failure could cause this kind of damage.

No, youre right, it wasnt an interior failure. Never mentioned that it was a failure from manufacturing, just that I broke one. I had a front driveshaft that broke, and it got bound up between the unidbody and yoke in the next revolution. Just one of those things that happens, but it broke none the less, so I had to fix it with what I had (a JK Tcase).

~James

Most dash mounted GPS will give your speedo speed, so why worry