Best Header Shootout ??

[KJurasek]

I am sure this subject has come up plenty, but never hurts to look for more feedback. I am in the process of looking for a header for my custom 4.9 stroker. It will have a 264 duration cam and ported heads to match the cam. I was going to go with Clifford, but I am not certain they still make their header for the 4.0l because I am not able to order them off their website. I have sent many e-mails, but I have not heard back from Larry at Clifford regarding this.

Now I am back looking for a good header match for this engine. I currently have Borla, on my somewhat stock 4.0, but it eventually cracked due to worn out motor mounts (not to mention the header blew the O2 bunge while driving on the highway). So I am not going to go with Borla on this new engine. I am looking at JBA (with titanium ceramic coating), Banks (for the 2000 up XJ), and Doug Thorley's ceramic coated header with the 1-5/8" primaries (I am leaning towards this one).

Does anyone have any thoughts on the above headers?

Inquiring minds want to know.

KJ


And yes, I will be replacing the worn out motor mounts with M.O.R.E mounts.

 

[gradon]

Well my response got deleted, so I'll just say for a stroker I recommend a header with a 2.5" outlet or a split style that can be merged into a 2.5" pipe.

 

[KJurasek]

I agree. The bigger the outlet the better. The Clifford headed is split with two separate 2 1/2" collectors. But unfortunately it seems this headed is no longer produced.

 

[92DripCherokee]

Banks header is a nice piece. I've been wanting one for my 00, but the iron manifolds are so durable, even after I swapped in a new cylinder head, they were still flat and sealed perfect after the bolts were tightened.

These banks header actually have some primary length, so a few more horses are expectable

assgas:

 

[K.Hess]

How are the Banks revolver headers?

 

[Darky]

For motor mounts, I'd recommend going with Brown Dog. Not only are they a supporter of this club, but their motor mounts are beefy, and their service is excellent. Plus, they have Jeeps and wheel them too.

For headers, I know nothing.

 

[seanyb505]

On that banks it looks like #3, 4 and 5 primaries are incredibly short compared to the others. I can't imagine that's optimal..

 

[KJurasek]

I like the write-up on the Banks header, but their primaries do look a bit short. I like how Doug Thorley has his header laid out. The primaries are 1 5/8" compared to 1 1/2" primaries of the Banks (along with other brands) header. Doug Thorley headers also employ what is called a "Tri-Y" construction along with silver ceramic coating.

The one thing I like about the Banks header is that they are fully welded both on the inside and the outside. Even though a fully welded header is not stronger (tack welds tend to be stronger than full weld), the sealing on the header must be exceptional. Another item I would look at with the Banks header is to "smooth out" some of the welds and bumps on the inside of the header before sending it off to have it ceramic coated. Another thing is, with all the curves of the new header, is it possible to fully ceramic coat both the inside and outside of the header? I also like the "Double Bung" for the O2 sensor that is high up and easy to get to. I know this is required on later model XJ's, but it allows me to use a second "wide band" O2 sensor for a Air/Fuel ratio gauge. With the DT header, I have to mount the sensors down lower on the down tube toward the cat-converter.

There is a lot to consider here, I know the construction of Banks headers and some things that could make it an even better header (such as smoothing out the inner welds on the primaries) and then ceramic coating options such as with JBA headers.

All considered, I am leaning towards the Doug Thorley header due to the size of the primaries (larger is stronger with more flow) along with their length, the Tri-Y construction, the ceramic coating, and the header being "Tuned". Besides, the reputation of the company throughout the "Hot Rod" industry has been legendary.

Take a look.

I am open for comments here.

http://www.dougthorley.com/CartGenie/prod-125.htm

 

[Talyn]

Doug Thorley also has horrible support. I bought one of the ones that cracked, it was a previous design to what they have now. Well, it cracked. In order to get a new one I had to pay extra for the new design and stainless steel pipes. Then their "ceramic coating" flaked off. Sent it back again. The flange warped. Sent it back again. I have up on the coating and had someone else do it. Every time i sent it back I got some song and dance as why they were late getting it out, didn't want to warranty it, etc. Their main support guy also thinks everyone has an "attitude". I was told this as well as another person that purchased the manifold. Oh.. and they don't sell their own manifold to head gasket anymore. I won't be buying another one from them.

As for using the late model header on an early system, you do not want to use the O2 bungs on the header for the PCM's O2 sensor.

X2 on the Brown Dog motor mounts!

 

[92DripCherokee]

1-5-3-6-2-4

the pulse from cylinder 5 is tuned to follow cylinder 1 and so on, notice the primary lengths are physically nailed to the firing order. There's a extra level of design in this bank's header. The cast iron header is crack resistant, which it designed for.

My old APN header doesn't even feature this sort of tuned primary length, and it flows noticeably better than the factory exhaust manifold.

No one's putting an emissions legal, long tube, equal length header on a street legal, 4wd cherokee. An old 258 CJ? Hell yes.

.

 

[KJurasek]

Doug Thorley also has horrible support. I bought one of the ones that cracked, it was a previous design to what they have now. Well, it cracked. In order to get a new one I had to pay extra for the new design and stainless steel pipes. Then their "ceramic coating" flaked off. Sent it back again. The flange warped. Sent it back again. I have up on the coating and had someone else do it. Every time i sent it back I got some song and dance as why they were late getting it out, didn't want to warranty it, etc. Their main support guy also thinks everyone has an "attitude". I was told this as well as another person that purchased the manifold. Oh.. and they don't sell their own manifold to head gasket anymore. I won't be buying another one from them.

As for using the late model header on an early system, you do not want to use the O2 bungs on the header for the PCM's O2 sensor.

X2 on the Brown Dog motor mounts!

Ok, this is definitely food for thought. Now it is a toss between Banks and DT. Has anyone reported any problems with the new DT header?

Also, why not use the O2 bungs on the header for the PCM? Too close or not recording all cylinders? Are they ok to use for a wideband A/F guage?

Just questions to ask before buying.

 

[KJurasek]

Does anyone have thoughts on the JBA headers? The only downside to the header I can see is the 3/8" flange.

 

[Talyn]

Has anyone reported any problems with the new DT header?

Just for clarification, the coating coming off and the flange warping were on the new header.

Also, why not use the O2 bungs on the header for the PCM? Too close or not recording all cylinders?

Yes, you want the PCM to see all cylinders unless its a 00+ cali package.

Are they ok to use for a wideband A/F guage?

Sure, if you don't want the AFR gauge to see what the PCM is seeing. There is no advantage to using a header for a 00+ on an earlier XJ

 

[KJurasek]

Ok, thanks for the clarification on the above. Ok, so does anyone have any thoughts on the JBA headers?

 

[Johnnie Walker]

I have had success with JBA on other motors, not with the I6. They do make a good product tho.

 

[Talyn]

I have had success with JBA on other motors, not with the I6.

Are you saying you haven't tried the JBA on the 4.0, or that you have and it didn't work well?

 

[KJurasek]

No, I haven't tried the JBA header. I like the way it is designed, but its drawback is the 3/8" flange. If it had the 1/2" flange, then there would be no question---I would be a buyer.

As for now, I am looking for some input on various headers.