Auto insurance claims, accident reports.....?s

[MischiefMan]

Lock the thread? Why? Surely you aren't asking the "powers that be" regulate what we discuss (that does not violate the Rules of course). Surely you aren't attempting to dictate what we can and cannot discuss because it does not meet with your approval. I mean that kind of behavior is what this thread is about!

 

[eflores]

CHIA! you are turning into an OBAMANITE!

 

[5-90]

Uhhh, let's, see, maybe because "ignorant" morons like me voted for them?



But truthfully, A whole lot of real smart people voted for them this time, so you can't blame it just on the ignorant populous.

SEE! I told you rocks were falling! LOL. :laugh2:

And we were doing so well ganging up on Mischiefman!

Mike, you know as well as I do that "intelligence" and "ignorance" are not mutuallly exclusive.

Fortunately, "ignorance" can be fixed. You can't fix stupid.

For public policy, sounds like MischiefMan and I are in agreement as well!

Scary...

 

[eflores]

some one agreed with ian?!?!? wtf

 

[Ecomike]

Mischiefman,

Since you don't use credit, or credit cards (your words), how would you know what the current contracts even look like? I have about 16 or more CC's. I get about 3 CC contract legal language updates a month lately, some in about 6 font, on reams of pages to small to read with out a magnifying glass.

But you asked for proof regarding my claims as to the wording, so here are some easy to access internet sites to help back up my statements regarding CCCs latest CC user agreement changes that allow them to "change any terms at any time for any reason, or no reason".

Let's start with these:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/15294243/

See action item to fight "..."elastic" contract terms that allow issuers to change terms for any reason, including no reason....


http://www.consumer-action.org/pres...re_bans_unfair_credit_card_universal_default/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/


Open-ended change-in-terms provisions—which typically read, "All terms may change...for any reason"—spread to other industries, says Matthew S. Melius.....The company unilaterally renewed contracts whenever customers disputed bills, purchased new phones, or received "courtesy discounts," the state AG alleges. If customers tried to cancel, they were hit with hefty fees. "Essentially what [Sprint] is doing is changing terms [as if there weren't] any contract at all," says Swanson....."Fifty lines of text explaining how interest rates will be calculated before concluding 'We reserve the right to change the terms at any time for any reason' is not disclosure," said Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, in a Mar. 11 speech. "That's obfuscation."

From:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_19/b4130048127451_page_2.htm

http://www.lendingtips.com/creditcards/consumerprotection/consumer_creditcards_2001.html

http://www.uspirg.org/action/financial-privacy/credit-card-bill-of-rights/fb

Allas, even Google could not find me a link to a real current CC agreement online (I wonder why?), so if you really want to see them, I can fax them if you give me a fax number, but be warned, most are in 8 or smaller font and are very long, and may not be readable once faxed. Hell I need 3X glasses to read the originals.

 

[Ecomike]

Mike, you know as well as I do that "intelligence" and "ignorance" are not mutuallly exclusive.

Fortunately, "ignorance" can be fixed. You can't fix stupid.

Funny you mentioned that. I once thought I could fix anything, but my ex-wife taught me otherwise, she proved that I could not fix what you call "stupid" no matter how hard or long I tried. Actually it was a lack of ability to comprehend, I never called it stupid, she just never made some of those critical neuron connections as a child.

 

[5-90]

Funny you mentioned that. I once thought I could fix anything, but my ex-wife taught me otherwise, she proved that I could not fix what you call "stupid" no matter how hard or long I tried. Actually it was a lack of ability to comprehend, I never called it stupid, she just never made some of those critical neuron connections as a child.

Yah. My wife sez I can fix anything except the common cold, a rainy day (no reason to - I like rainy days!) and stupid people.

I do differentiate between "ignorant" and "stupid" - ignorance can be solved through teaching. Stupid you're stuck with...

 

[Ecomike]

Also note worthy:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/05/politics/animal/main3576394.shtml

"The general subject here is "universal default." This means that if, say, you're late paying your electric bill, Visa can double the interest rate on your credit card even though your late payment had nothing to do with Visa. Anything that lowers your credit score, whether you know about it or not, can potentially change the interest rate on your credit card balance.

But it's even worse than that! Not only can they double your interest rate if they feel like it, but the new interest rate applies retroactively to your existing balance, not just to any new debt. Your minimum payment of $500 can become a minimum payment of $1,000 overnight and there's nothing you can do about it.

This is so patently unfair that most people can't believe it's legal the first time they hear about it. Even the subprime mortgage leeches never tried anything like this. But not only is it legal, it's common (read the fine print on your credit card contract someday). In an industry so rotten and corrupt that even Boss Tweed would blush to be part of it, universal default is by far the rottenest and most corrupt practice around."

 

[eflores]

alright ian come on, i just read this whole thing, i need MORE! rebuttal?

 

[MischiefMan]

Mischiefman,

Since you don't use credit, or credit cards (your words), how would you know what the current contracts even look like? I have about 16 or more CC's. I get about 3 CC contract legal language updates a month lately, some in about 6 font, on reams of pages to small to read with out a magnifying glass.

But you asked for proof regarding my claims as to the wording, so here are some easy to access internet sites to help back up my statements regarding CCCs latest CC user agreement changes that allow them to "change any terms at any time for any reason, or no reason".

Let's start with these:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/15294243/

See action item to fight "..."elastic" contract terms that allow issuers to change terms for any reason, including no reason....


http://www.consumer-action.org/pres...re_bans_unfair_credit_card_universal_default/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/eight/


Open-ended change-in-terms provisions—which typically read, "All terms may change...for any reason"—spread to other industries, says Matthew S. Melius.....The company unilaterally renewed contracts whenever customers disputed bills, purchased new phones, or received "courtesy discounts," the state AG alleges. If customers tried to cancel, they were hit with hefty fees. "Essentially what [Sprint] is doing is changing terms [as if there weren't] any contract at all," says Swanson....."Fifty lines of text explaining how interest rates will be calculated before concluding 'We reserve the right to change the terms at any time for any reason' is not disclosure," said Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, in a Mar. 11 speech. "That's obfuscation."

From:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_19/b4130048127451_page_2.htm

http://www.lendingtips.com/creditcards/consumerprotection/consumer_creditcards_2001.html

http://www.uspirg.org/action/financial-privacy/credit-card-bill-of-rights/fb

Allas, even Google could not find me a link to a real current CC agreement online (I wonder why?), so if you really want to see them, I can fax them if you give me a fax number, but be warned, most are in 8 or smaller font and are very long, and may not be readable once faxed. Hell I need 3X glasses to read the originals.

FAIL!

So, I opened your links NOT ONE OF THEM is a contract. Sites touting the propaganda that you choose to perpetuate is not the same as copies of the actual contracts that you complaining about.

As to your question regarding how I know what the contracts look like. Well, as I've said, I've been doing bankruptcies for 10 years now. Our office also represents creditors AND debtors in lawsuits based on these contracts. I've read the contracts. I've helped to defend the contracts. I've helped to fight against the contracts. So, uh, yeah, I dare say that I'm somewhat familiar with them.

 

[MischiefMan]

But it's even worse than that! Not only can they double your interest rate if they feel like it, but the new interest rate applies retroactively to your existing balance, not just to any new debt.

No sir, not "if they feel like it"...if you do something to alter your current credit score or standing. Again, the blame comes back to the consumer who doesn't take care of his/her business! Again, if you don't like the practices, no one is forcing you to use the service. That my friend is your choice!

This is so patently unfair that most people can't believe it's legal the first time they hear about it.

WTF does fair have to do with business relationships? Where does ANYTHING give anyone the guarantee of "fairness?"

(read the fine print on your credit card contract someday).

See my comments in my previous post regarding what I do for a living.

So, let me see if I'm understanding your position correctly.

1. You are claiming that you should be able to force a company to conduct its business the way that you think it should be based on some mythical idea of what you consider fair at this moment and time? It's a yes or no question that deserves a yes or no response.

2. You voluntarily use the services that a company provides based on the terms that of the contract that the company has offered you. You voluntarily reaped the benefit of such services. You have been enriched by those services. NOW you want to complain about those the underlying contracts for those services? Again, a yes or no question that deserves a yes or no response.

3. You complain because the government protects the financial interests of the citizens in by requiring you to maintain proof of financial liability on the vehicle that you operate on a public roadway, yet you are wanting the very same type of treatment to be imposed on businesses? Third yes or no question.

 

[Ecomike]

Well it looks like I am going to be suing Allstate after all.