87 renix starter problem

[87woody-atl]

Basically I have two different starters, the orginal and a 1996 that came from a doner xj. Both were tested today at pepboys and passed.

Niether one of the starters will turn. I have the positive lead from the battery going to the large post, and a green wire that comes from the starter relay to the smallest post.

I've posted on another forum about this gremlin I'm facing, here are my multimeter readings;
Update:
Note- I have two different starters ( 87-93 ) and two different starter relays ( 87-89 ) to work with: Batt. voltage/16v. (highest number I have seen on an old batt)
Voltage tests.
- voltage from battery to starter solenoid.jumper cable/16v.NO STARTER ENGAGEMENT! WITH 2 STARTERS!
- voltage from SOL term. wire(green) to starter solenoid post/wire(green)/16v.
- voltage from starter relay(silver-gray box) large pos(+) post to battery neg(-)term./16v.
- voltage from SOL terminal to neg(-) battery post with ignition at start/16v.
Resistance-
- neg(-) Batt post to all starter relay(silver gray box) prongs/Infinite ohms
- resistance between G and L terminals on the starter relay box/32ohms

NOTES AND PROBLEMS!
First off both starters didn't engage while jumping them to the battery pos(+) post.


In response to Saudade on my 87 Wag the only wires I have are ( White-Black/White-Green) and a random red wire with the same style black clip that is getting a constant 12v? My original starter relay box has only three prongs on it. ( G terminal - SOL terminal - L terminal)


On my new junkyard relay box from a 89 XJ it has 4 terminals. It is the same as the one you pictured in relation to the G L and SOL terminal location, and an extra fuel ballast relay terminal with an orange wire my harness does not have. My harness has a fusable link that connects directly to the large battery terminal on the starter relay that is controlling my fuel pump.


In response to dover21, when testing resistance from the negative battery terminal to any of the starter relay posts while the wire clips were not attached I tested infinite. While the wire clips were attached ( by probing the back of the clips) I tested an average of 50 ohms. Not sure what this is but with the 16 volt battery who knows.

Thanks agian for all the help with all the gremlins

pictures can be found here:
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad355/picturebucket42/jrelay2.jpg
http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad355/picturebucket42/CUSTOMRELAY-JEEP.jpg


To sum up: was wondering if anyone had an 87 renix system with 3 prong starter relay, and if my color coding is correct?
And if I have everything hooked up right and I'm getting voltage to the starter when u turn the key then y isn't the starter doing anything

 

[n1ywb]

Is your engine seized? Any reason to suspect it might be? Can you turn it by putting a breaker bar on the harmonic balancer?

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Did you/they test the solenoid?

 

[87woody-atl]

Engine is not siezed, just found tdc like four weeks ago, the orginal starter worked then too.

I don't know the test that they preformed at pepboys, but from what I saw they connect four wires to the starter,three wires to the three post on the starter, and the fourth was a clamp to the metal housing of the starter(I'm guessing a ground)

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Well, a new starter can be had for 70$ or less. Get one and try it. Make sure everything is connected correctly.

 

[joe_peters]

You have 16 volts static? Drag your battery down for a load test, it is probably toast.

 

[5-90]

Some batteries are designed for a 16VDC static supply - but I'm fairly sure yours isn't one of them (they're often racing peices, with three terminals up top: a common negative terminal, a 12V positive, and a 16V positive... They also require charging support - an alternator with a 16V/12V output, or you have to charge the other two cells when you're done for the day.

However, have you checked starter motor output to the solenoid?You've established that you have good power to the starter motor proper (test between battery negative terminal and the large stud on the solenoid,) but repeat with the positive lead clamped to the small stud on the solenoid while someone cranks the key to START. If you see battery voltage there; either the solenoid proper has failed (I've seen failed solenoids pass on the bench - it's a matter of power quantity delivered...) or there is a wiring fault upstream from the solenoid.

Figure that the solenoid should get fed something like battery voltage, less up top 1.5VDC (not more! If your battery voltage is 14.0VDC at reas, your solenoid should see a minimum of 12.5VDC when the key is turned to START.)

If you see that much at the solenoid but it doesn't go, you're either not getting enough current down there or the solenoid is starting to fail (the latter is more probable. Those benches are wired to "overstart" the solenoid...)

If the voltage you read at the solenoid terminal on the starter motor is (BATT - 1.5VDC), you either have a bad part upstream (the starter motor relay) or a wiring fault.

For RENIX, the starter motor relay is the little goldish cannister-type right behind the battery, and in front of the row of relays under the black cover (if you still have that cover, and it hasn't been lost.) Replacements are, as far as I know, OEMR only - and about fifty bucks by now.

One of these days, I'm going to see how I did it. I had a summer where I was probably eating one of those wretched things about every three weeks - and even with the fact that I paid jobber at the local (sent a lot of business their way...) it was getting spendy. I went through my parts bin and pulled out a pre-wired DIN relay socket, shifted a couple of connections, and put in a Bosch DIN relay - wan't even a new one!

That was six years ago. Installing the relay was simple - I just don't remember how I did it! (But, I did it with about fifteen dollars' worth of parts, if they were new. The pigtailed socket ran six, and I've bought relays in bulk for 6-8$/ea...)

 

[87woody-atl]

What should I be looking for when I take the battery in to get load tested

 

[87woody-atl]

Yeah yes Joe when I checked the voltage on the battery itself it was reading 16.xx, thought that was kinda weird since it's an old battery that I've recharged a couple times

 

[joe_peters]

Yeah yes Joe when I checked the voltage on the battery itself it was reading 16.xx, thought that was kinda weird since it's an old battery that I've recharged a couple times

When tested that will tell for sure. It is overcharged for some reason. You really shouldn't see more than about 12.5 volts static, 13.6-14.5 volts when charging.

 

[87woody-atl]

Well tonight I'll be swapping my Buddies yellow optomia into the jeep to see if anything changes, he will be using it in the car he drives over in, anyone c a problem with using that battery?

 

[87woody-atl]

5-90. I tested the small post of the starter with the positive lead from the multimeter, and the negotive lead from the multimeter to the negotive post of the battery-which gave me the 16v. While someone was turning the key

I also did a reading just at the battery- positive lead of multimeter to positive battery post and negotive lead from multimeter to negotive battery post resulting in 16v.

I've also done every combination inbtween the battery and the starter, all resulting in no breaks in the circuit- as described in the first post.

So power is getting to where it needs to go, I'm just don't want to be throwing parts at the problem.

Does the starter need to be hooked up to the bellhousing to actually work, I've had it sitting in the engine bay, because I've been swapping starters to see if it works, and it's a lot easier to test for voltage with everything right next to each other

 

[joe_peters]

Well tonight I'll be swapping my Buddies yellow optomia into the jeep to see if anything changes, he will be using it in the car he drives over in, anyone c a problem with using that battery?

No problema as long as it physically fits--especially that it isn't too tall and the terminals contact the hood!

 

[joe_peters]

5-90. I tested the small post of the starter with the positive lead from the multimeter, and the negotive lead from the multimeter to the negotive post of the battery-which gave me the 16v. While someone was turning the key

I also did a reading just at the battery- positive lead of multimeter to positive battery post and negotive lead from multimeter to negotive battery post resulting in 16v.

I've also done every combination inbtween the battery and the starter, all resulting in no breaks in the circuit- as described in the first post.

So power is getting to where it needs to go, I'm just don't want to be throwing parts at the problem.

Does the starter need to be hooked up to the bellhousing to actually work, I've had it sitting in the engine bay, because I've been swapping starters to see if it works, and it's a lot easier to test for voltage with everything right next to each other

No, you need power, source ground, power to the solenoid and it should function--a common "bench" test.

 

[87woody-atl]

So what is the source ground? On the starter since there are only two wires going to it.

 

[joe_peters]

Sorry, "source ground" i.e., ground from the battery--use a jumper cable to the starter body.