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400SB Chevy into a 94' XJ

S

SSCherokee

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Ontario/Canada
Hello, I Have a 1970's 400SB at my disposal and am thinking of putting it into my 1994 Jeep Cherokee XJ. I am prepared to completly redo the engin bay to accept the monster, and have good welding skills.

What my real Queston is, Has this ever Been done befor...?? I've looked around all other the Net and havent really found anything that fits what i'm looking for.

Project name: Sleeper - Super Sport Cherokee. (AKA: SSCherokee)

Jesse
 
SSCherokee said:
Hello, I Have a 1970's 400SB at my disposal and am thinking of putting it into my 1994 Jeep Cherokee XJ. I am prepared to completly redo the engin bay to accept the monster, and have good welding skills.

What my real Queston is, Has this ever Been done befor...?? I've looked around all other the Net and havent really found anything that fits what i'm looking for.

Project name: Sleeper - Super Sport Cherokee. (AKA: SSCherokee)

Jesse
Click to expand...
There is a post 4 spaces down talking about almost the same thing but with a 350. I would suggest reading it if you haven't already.
 
yes, black i did see that thread, but it's not the same question that i am asking.... i'm asking if the 400SB has ever been put in a Cherokee. not the 350.. even though these are pritty much the same motor, the 400 is just slightly bigger.

thanks for the informative though ^-^

Jesse
 
The main differences between the 350 and 400 are internal - they'll both fit into the same places. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to make it happen - but it will take some work.

Have you checked out Advance Adapters (www.advance-adapter.com, I think?) They have a couple kits for wedging the SBChevvy into the XJ/MJ, which might save you some work.

There's also a Yahoo! group about V8 XJ swaps - V8cherokeeowners, I think. Might also be a good source of information - but it's had rather low traffic lately.

Searching here will also likely yield fruit - but most of us here are either AMC diehards or inline six diehards (or both!) and might not be as much help as you may need.

Either way, if you are going to bolt in the SBC, you are probably going to want to reinforce the front frame rails and engine bay subframe - both for additional weight and addititional torque (the only problem I have with the SBC in terms of torque is that you have to wind it up too high - the inline six gives you really good torque off-idle!)

Either way, I'm sure there are those of us here who would be happy to help, and would like to hear of your "adventures" with this swap. Here are a couple thoughts of my own..

1) Add an oil cooler - you'll probably need it. The XJ radiator is usually hard-pressed to keep up with the 242 as it is (since it's so short.)

2) Consider adding late-model DIS - this will save making a batch of "clearance cuts" in the firewall for the distributor.

3) Reinforce the engine mounts - you don't want your fan trying to go thru the radiator!

4) Consider going to electric fans or a solid fan, instead of a fan clutch. It's enough trouble when we have a 242 slip a little loose, and there's isn't a lot of room between the fan and the radiator to begin with - probably be less, unless you're careful. If you do dual electric fans, DO get a high-output alternator, so you don't have to worry about driving the things (good electric fans are usually pretty hungry...)

That's all I've got for the moment - but I'm sure there's more kicking around the back of my mind. Somewhere. Of all the points I brought up, I'd think that #2 is about the most important - it will save you a lot of sheet metal work and make for a cleaner installation...

5-90
 
Thanks a ton for all of the valuable information and suggestions 5-90. But i'm planning to make this XJ a street machine, so it doesent recquier the front axel. My Idea is to get a Cherokee outta the junk yard that is 2 wheel drive and scavenge the front end outta it. As for the engin and components i'm taking the whole thing outta an 82' firebird that has a modified 400SB in it.

So this means the rear axel is gunna be taken out aswell, replaced with the firebireds, if there the same langth anyways.

umm.. I'm kinda new at these terms you have. So dount think i'm dumb when I ask what a "late-model DIS" is. And how much will that cost... I'm on a low buget and will probably be pushing it Buying the jeep from the junkyard, for it's front end, and then buying aftermarket gauges, and of course some cables....

As for sheet metal suplies, there all covered and i've got all the steel I need handy. ^-^
Oh ya... should also mention this is my first real project and wouldent mind as much help as i can get lol.

Jesse
 
Last edited:
DIS = Distributorless Ignition System. You can probably get one while you're in the boneyard - look for one out of a late-model F-body, and you're off to a good start. You can probably work with a FWD version as well (like out of the Caddy,) and you can probably get away with any V8 unit - I just haven't checked. A lot of that is still theoretical.

The axle shouldn't be the issue - I'm more worried about the framereails and subframe. You see, the XJ was designed (at first) for a little V6 and I4, then modified and reegineered to accept the I4 or I6. Either way, I'm pretty sure the SBChevvy 400 is going to weigh a little more than the AMC 242I6, and the extra twisting forces (from your calling it "Sleeper," I'm guessing you're going to want to wind this thing up a bit...) on the front subframe should be accounted for when you plan your motor mounts. The AA kit would be informative for you, but it's more designed for off-road use, and I'd probably still want to brace it up a bit. I'm minded of the time we wedged a Buick GN Turbo 231 into the butt end of a 71 Bug - what a JOB! Ran like a raped ape, tho, and I had to have an ISP interceptor pace us to find out how fast it went (added 400# of low ballast - mainly plate in the floorpan and some cast lead weights to keep the front end down...) since we never made a speedo for it until much later.

We twisted three sets of engine mounts before we got it to work. An extreme example, sure, but it shows some of the thinking you should be doing.

Since you're working on a unibody, you really don't want to cut a panel unless you can't fix the problem any other way. By switching to DIS, you can eliminate the distributor (replace it with an oil pump drive shaft) and save the clearance issues at the rear of the engine.

I'd probably go so far as to look for an MPI/MPFI manifold while you're grabbing the DIS, and go to fuel injection. This can result in a smaller throttle body, meaning less clearance over the engine needed for the hood, and less work there. Once you have the FI set up, you can put the intake filter pretty much anywhere you want - as long as it has enough area to feed the engine.

Either way, I wouldn't see much of a problem adapting later DIS to the earlier engine - the SBChevvy hasn't changed much since the 1950's - it's just changed displacement and the support systems are different.

Before you go around looking for 2WD front end parts, bear in mind that you can probably get away with keeping the front axle - if it's a "bearing retainer" type, and you KNOW it's never going to go offroad, you can probably pull out the ring gear, et viola! two-wheel drive. That would save you the trouble of finding front end parts from a 2WD for a while, and you wouldn't have to worry about losing all your axle oil or supporting the inside ends of the axle shafts (since that would be done by the carrier.) Probably work for a C-clip axle as well - just in case.

You will want to upgrade your brakes - going disc in the rear (from a ZJD44, if you have the retainer plate instead of the C-clip) and finding or assembling a "big brake" kit up front are both excellent ideas.

With the amount of torque you're probably thinking about putting to the rear wheels, you're going to want to rebuild your axle using a NEW carrier (and LSD?) and ring & pinon - or at least have the old carrier X-rayed or Magnafluxed (or both?) and checked over thorougly before you get on it. I've seen carriers explode, it ain't pretty.

Geez - you're making me think again!

5-90
 
also consider your transmission, if your getting it from a junk yard and its 2wd the transmission probly wont handle the torque from the v8. and if it is strong enough to handle it it might not mate as well to the v8 as you think

also cooling is a major issue most people doing v8 swaps have cooling issues so be prepared to spend some big bucks on a radiator and the oil cooler is not a bad idea and since its not going off road a vented hood or maybe an induction hood may be helpfull
 
Going with a "street" SBC400-powered XJ would mean using either the AW4 (which is the box found behind the Turbo I6 in the Supra, and isn't a bad box...) or with the THM400 - which can be built into a solid performance box. If you were just going to do brackets and stuff, you could try finding a Powerglide (especially if you can find a cast-iron case - but those may be available in the aftermarket by now. I haven't checked,) but I'd not want to use a powerslide for the street - it's only a two-speed. The extra gear is nice.

It may not be a bad idea - if you're going to build up the engine before it goes in - to add spray piston cooling. This invovled adding a set of oil spray nozzles which are aimed at the bottom of the pistons, and fed with pump pressure. The oil will carry heat away from the pistons (which is a huge help,) then the oil carries the heat to the cooler.

As long as you're doing "on-road only," I could probably give you a bigger batch of ideas for throwing off heat and going faster - you can PM me, or send detailed questions to me at [email protected]. I've been in performance mechanics for a number of years, and I can probably save you a bunch of mistakes.

Another fellow to look up would be Ed A. Stevens (posts here under his proper name) - he's another high-powered mech who pertty much always has something useful to say. If you ask him nicely, I'm sure he'd be willing to offer advice (and anything that saves you from making a bunch of mistakes is well worth the time!)

5-90
 
CherokeeProject
I was thinking of useing the stalk Trany just for that problem, as for overheating problems i was thinking of making an underbody scoop to push air over the engine, This of course is just an idea and really have no clue it it'll work.
------------

5-90
I was actually thinking of tuning the engine and get it working tip top shap befor i put it into the XJ, and Does it help that i found out i posted the wrong year of it lol It's actually a 91'

you have some pritty good idea's that i may just find extremely usefull, and i think i might take you up on that offer to ask more indepth questions via email.
 
5-90 said:
DIS = Distributorless Ignition System. You can probably get one while you're in the boneyard - look for one out of a late-model F-body, and you're off to a good start. You can probably work with a FWD version as well (like out of the Caddy,) and you can probably get away with any V8 unit - I just haven't checked. A lot of that is still theoretical.

The axle shouldn't be the issue - I'm more worried about the framereails and subframe. You see, the XJ was designed (at first) for a little V6 and I4, then modified and reegineered to accept the I4 or I6. Either way, I'm pretty sure the SBChevvy 400 is going to weigh a little more than the AMC 242I6, and the extra twisting forces (from your calling it "Sleeper," I'm guessing you're going to want to wind this thing up a bit...) on the front subframe should be accounted for when you plan your motor mounts. The AA kit would be informative for you, but it's more designed for off-road use, and I'd probably still want to brace it up a bit. I'm minded of the time we wedged a Buick GN Turbo 231 into the butt end of a 71 Bug - what a JOB! Ran like a raped ape, tho, and I had to have an ISP interceptor pace us to find out how fast it went (added 400# of low ballast - mainly plate in the floorpan and some cast lead weights to keep the front end down...) since we never made a speedo for it until much later.

We twisted three sets of engine mounts before we got it to work. An extreme example, sure, but it shows some of the thinking you should be doing.

Since you're working on a unibody, you really don't want to cut a panel unless you can't fix the problem any other way. By switching to DIS, you can eliminate the distributor (replace it with an oil pump drive shaft) and save the clearance issues at the rear of the engine.

I'd probably go so far as to look for an MPI/MPFI manifold while you're grabbing the DIS, and go to fuel injection. This can result in a smaller throttle body, meaning less clearance over the engine needed for the hood, and less work there. Once you have the FI set up, you can put the intake filter pretty much anywhere you want - as long as it has enough area to feed the engine.

Either way, I wouldn't see much of a problem adapting later DIS to the earlier engine - the SBChevvy hasn't changed much since the 1950's - it's just changed displacement and the support systems are different.

Before you go around looking for 2WD front end parts, bear in mind that you can probably get away with keeping the front axle - if it's a "bearing retainer" type, and you KNOW it's never going to go offroad, you can probably pull out the ring gear, et viola! two-wheel drive. That would save you the trouble of finding front end parts from a 2WD for a while, and you wouldn't have to worry about losing all your axle oil or supporting the inside ends of the axle shafts (since that would be done by the carrier.) Probably work for a C-clip axle as well - just in case.

You will want to upgrade your brakes - going disc in the rear (from a ZJD44, if you have the retainer plate instead of the C-clip) and finding or assembling a "big brake" kit up front are both excellent ideas.

With the amount of torque you're probably thinking about putting to the rear wheels, you're going to want to rebuild your axle using a NEW carrier (and LSD?) and ring & pinon - or at least have the old carrier X-rayed or Magnafluxed (or both?) and checked over thorougly before you get on it. I've seen carriers explode, it ain't pretty.

Geez - you're making me think again!

5-90
Click to expand...
If i went to fuel injection... wouldent i have to worry about all of the late-modle emissions and the vacum hoses... not to mention all the wiring??

but the reson i was thinking of putting the front end of a 2WD Cherokee into it was because, i was thinking maybee i could lower the engine placement a little, to make room for the Carburater, also i need to buy a new one of those lol the one that's on the engin doesent look to healthy.

I probably wont be starting this project for a few months, so I have a ton of time for planing ^-^ also.. i'm unsure if it helps but i have the whole Firebird for parts which i'm thinking that might come in handy. but... the engines outta a 1970's firbird.. i'm thinking anyways, and it's in an 82' not to mention the guy who did the swap didn't do that great of a job and the engine ended up twisting the poor car in half. (Litterally... theres a rip in the floorboards where it twisted and the tranny underneath ripped one of it's mounts Wright outta the subframe) So ya.. extra brasing may be requird lol

That beetle musta ripped after that upgrade.. how fast did it go when completed?

Jesse
 
Last edited:
Nope - you can do away with all the vacuum with proper tuning and all the sensors in place.

There are several aftermarket sources (Marren, MSD, Accel, Holley, et. al.,) or you could go really nuts and build your own system around the MegaSquirt controller by Bowling & Grippo - Google for information.

The issue with fuel injection is that a number of sensors are required, but any vacuum wiring can be cut down to pretty much the PCV setup and the power brakes. Granted, it may not be a "clean sheet" job, but you can come pretty close when you work around the SBChevvy. I don't plan on using one for REDSHIFT simply because I like a challenge.

You'll still have to handle electrics for FI as well - but it's not as hard as you might first thing. It's usually harder to wire "creature features" properly than it is to do engine support, and there are also a number of aftermarket sources for pre-made wiring.

5-90
 
5-90 said:
Nope - you can do away with all the vacuum with proper tuning and all the sensors in place.

There are several aftermarket sources (Marren, MSD, Accel, Holley, et. al.,) or you could go really nuts and build your own system around the MegaSquirt controller by Bowling & Grippo - Google for information.

The issue with fuel injection is that a number of sensors are required, but any vacuum wiring can be cut down to pretty much the PCV setup and the power brakes. Granted, it may not be a "clean sheet" job, but you can come pretty close when you work around the SBChevvy. I don't plan on using one for REDSHIFT simply because I like a challenge.

You'll still have to handle electrics for FI as well - but it's not as hard as you might first thing. It's usually harder to wire "creature features" properly than it is to do engine support, and there are also a number of aftermarket sources for pre-made wiring.

5-90
Click to expand...

I'd like to keep it Carburated if i could... mainly for the "i wont drink much gas if you don't put my pedle to the floor" thing. but if i must make it fuel injected, which i hope i don't, I will.

But i'm having the funny feeling that i might havta cut a hole in the hood... but only a miner one lol, should be able to make it look like a fake hood scoop... yet it'll be real..

but another question would be... is Fuel injection worth all the hassle to put it in when i don't really need it?

Jesse
 
Last edited:
Not if you're careful. Besides, you'll find that going with fuel injection will actually give you MORE power, BETTER fuel economy (both in small but significant amounts) and you will have an easier time wedging everything in under the hood.

Consider this - a 1972 Datsun pickup with 1995 Corvette running gear, from the engine fan to the axle. It all fit - and wouldn't have if it weren't carburetted (not my project - but I almost bought it from a guy in Pacifica. I just didn't feel like going to a Smog Referee every alternate year...) It all fit under the hood, without breaking the hoodline. Talk about a sleeper!

Don't get too married to anything specific - you'll find a lot of projects like this will change as you work on them.

I don't want to discourage you - I think it's an admirable project, and I can't wait to hear how it comes out. But, remember that 71 Bug I mentioned - that one took me about two and a half years to get working right... This should be easier, but it won't be easy. REDSHIFT should be easier - it's mostly machine work!

5-90
 
it is only a small hole, actually i cut the hole for cooling and a little clearance for the air filter.
DSCN0357.jpg

the SBC will fit in there fine, the only thing you will run in to is that you might need a 3" lift but since you are running a two wheel drive you might not need it
if you do go for it, i would go with the chevy trany, the jeep tranys are ok but not the beefy one you will want ( TRUST ME ON THIS ) a turbo 400 is the one i recomend for an auto.

cooling will be an issue, i agree. i used the stock square rad with an electric fan from a BMW i pushed the radiator forward forward 1.5" because the engine pushed forward a half an inch and cliped the rad.
DSCN0276.jpg

it will fit, and by the way, a small block chevy is a small block chevy. the block does not change weather it is a 305,307, 350 or 400, so yeah it will fit, i have even heard of a big block XJ ( but i have never seen it ) the motor mount set up is crucial and if you do like me you will fab your own and that way you can decide where you want the engine and the distributor will clear, i have like three or four inches between the fire wall and the dist. but that is because i put the ingine in with the stock trany and an advance addaptors bell housing and did not relocate the trany, i tried to use the stock drive shafts ( turns out i need new ones any way )

Good Luck, and have fun with it!
 
just so you guys don't get too far off track; Pontiac had their own 400 engine in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't related or derived from the Chevy 350 or 400 in any way. I don't think they ever built a modern electronic fuel injected version of this motor, so trying to equip it as such would have to be from scratch. Do some research and make sure which 400 this thing actually is. :)

The Pontiac 400 is noticably bigger than a SBC on the outside as well so fitting it into a Cherokee would not be the same as with a Chevy. You should also make note of the way the mechanical fuel pump and oil filter are attached. These may or may not provide some additonal challenges.

As far as torque goes, the larger cube engine should have more torque at any RPM than the Jeep 4.0, but you will not be gearing it down as low, assuming you won't be running 4WD and a transfercase with low-range. Engine mounts have to be engineered to handle engine torque X low gear ratio. This means your motor mounts will be handling less torque than a 4.0 equipped Jeep. No additional bracing should be required. I suspect the problem with the Firebird it currently lives in was due to poorly engineered front motor mounts that placed too much of the burden on the rear tranny mount.

cheers
 
MaXJohnson said:
just so you guys don't get too far off track; Pontiac had their own 400 engine in the 60's and 70's. It wasn't related or derived from the Chevy 350 or 400 in any way. I don't think they ever built a modern electronic fuel injected version of this motor, so trying to equip it as such would have to be from scratch. Do some research and make sure which 400 this thing actually is. :)

The Pontiac 400 is noticably bigger than a SBC on the outside as well so fitting it into a Cherokee would not be the same as with a Chevy. You should also make note of the way the mechanical fuel pump and oil filter are attached. These may or may not provide some additonal challenges.

As far as torque goes, the larger cube engine should have more torque at any RPM than the Jeep 4.0, but you will not be gearing it down as low, assuming you won't be running 4WD and a transfercase with low-range. Engine mounts have to be engineered to handle engine torque X low gear ratio. This means your motor mounts will be handling less torque than a 4.0 equipped Jeep. No additional bracing should be required. I suspect the problem with the Firebird it currently lives in was due to poorly engineered front motor mounts that placed too much of the burden on the rear tranny mount.

cheers
Click to expand...

I was starting to ask this same Question as I looked into a Silverado that has the 350... this engine is quiet a bit bigger.. longer and the valve covers as well aswell as the Carb is a big difference... in any case i'm thinking i'm going to have to get ahold of the original owner so that i can ask him what it is, befor I start tinkering.

It wasent only the trany mount that was broke... it also twisted the whole car the right fender is bent up and the unibody is ripped behind the seats lol, so i'm not exactly sure what this motor is or what is done to it. I am very sure that it's a 400 though because it's way to big... like i said it's noticably bigger then the stock SBC that's in the Silverado....
 
my suggestion is get a detailed plan set up. set everything in stages and in as much detail as you can before you start any buying or starting on the project and change your "master plan" as you go. this may prevent you from running into problems later down the line and find yourself wasting alot of money. also take pictures, this may not be as important for you swaping engines and all but it will probly prove itself usefull when your putting it all together.
 
steagall9301 said:
it is only a small hole, actually i cut the hole for cooling and a little clearance for the air filter.
DSCN0357.jpg

the SBC will fit in there fine, the only thing you will run in to is that you might need a 3" lift but since you are running a two wheel drive you might not need it
if you do go for it, i would go with the chevy trany, the jeep tranys are ok but not the beefy one you will want ( TRUST ME ON THIS ) a turbo 400 is the one i recomend for an auto.

cooling will be an issue, i agree. i used the stock square rad with an electric fan from a BMW i pushed the radiator forward forward 1.5" because the engine pushed forward a half an inch and cliped the rad.
DSCN0276.jpg

it will fit, and by the way, a small block chevy is a small block chevy. the block does not change weather it is a 305,307, 350 or 400, so yeah it will fit, i have even heard of a big block XJ ( but i have never seen it ) the motor mount set up is crucial and if you do like me you will fab your own and that way you can decide where you want the engine and the distributor will clear, i have like three or four inches between the fire wall and the dist. but that is because i put the ingine in with the stock trany and an advance addaptors bell housing and did not relocate the trany, i tried to use the stock drive shafts ( turns out i need new ones any way )

Good Luck, and have fun with it!
Click to expand...


Looks sweet... and you did a great job on it man. but it looks a little to noticable... if and when i get pulled over i don't want the cop to ask "what's under the hood" and then all he has to do is look at the hood to know somethins up lol

also i shouldent have an issue with location if i go 2WD with the Trany that's on the engine right now... other then haveing to brace it up a bit and make alot of modifications.. but hay that's what thay made the grinder and welder for isent it? ^-^
 
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