• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

reading codes on '88 renix motor?????

TNScrambler

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Knoxville, TN
Ok, so I have an '88 Wagoneer Limited XJ with 4.0 Automatic.

How do you read the check engine codes with these motors....all I can find is for the '91 and newer. I've found a listing for what the codes mean, but how do I read them.

Thanks,
Justin
 
Um, you can't?

Seriously, the 1987-1990 XJ w/4.0 (what we here commonly refer to as the "RENIX" motors,) have an ECM which does not have the ability to store DTCs, and they also do NOT have a "Check Engine" light (whic I have to explain to the Smog guys every damn time...)

So, don't worry about pulling codes - there is not only no way to do it, but there's nothing to pull anyhow. The RENIX motors are considered "pre-OBD" - so all that stuff doesn't apply.

The upside is that the RENIX control system is probably the most adaptable setup I've ever seen, and I'd take it over the OBD-I/II setups of later years. I just wish there was more of an aftermarket for it...

5-90

ECM = Engine Control Module
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
OBD = OnBoard Diagnostics (OBD-I 1985-1995, OBD-II 1996-current)
RENIX = Joint venture between Renault Motor Co. and Bendix Electronics.
 
If the ecm does not store codes, then how are you suposed to trouble shoot the thing? I've checked all sensors, and found only one issue which has been traced down to the ECM which I can't check? But my motor has multiple problems....so, what just throw parts at it? I find that ridiculas....if you want easy and adaptible try a GM fuelinjection system/computer for a 87-95, a paperclip, a multimemter, and some basic wireing diagrams and I was able to trace down a drivabliaty issue in a matter of half an hour.....the stupid jeep has been fighting me for weeks!

I've even thought about trying to adapt a GM computer onto the thing, but havn't been able to figure out how to make the TBI computer designed to fire only two injectors to be able recognize the cps and fire all six injectors in the proper sequince....not only would it be a cheaper more available computer, but simple diagnostics, and the availablity of many aftermarket parts including performance programing etc....

End rant....sorry I'm just tired of working on this thing with no results.

Ok, so the Facotry Service Manual talks about using a diagnostic tester on the ecm, is there sometype of realtime data reader that you can use to see what is causing the problem?

Thanks,
Justin
 
Also, a friend of mine found a list of DTCs listed for a '88 Jeep Cherokee, then at the end of the list it says that "A SCAN tool is required to extract fault codes from these vehicles."

from the descriptions listed on these codes it does not sound like stored codes but more like just real time codes, just stateing whether or not all of the inputs are recognized, but even this would help me tremendously.

Thanks,
Justin
 
You need to find yourself the following Jeep service manual: 4.0 Liter Multi-point Fuel Injection (1987-1990 RENIX System). On the cover it has a picture of the 4.0 liter fuel rail on what looks like graph paper. This book along with a nice digital multimeter should be all you need to diagnose and correct any problem involving the RENIX system. It has detailed troubleshooting flowcharts too. So far there has not been an ECU related problem on my '88 that I have not been able to diagnose and service with this book.

HTH,

Mark
 
Last edited:
JaysXJ said:
Wow, sounds like you depend on computers to much.

Actually I'm just trying to findout if the computer is causing my problems, I'm getting too much fuel, ie running rich. Also, when cold the motor will crank and crank and crank, but not start, its getting fire and fuel (probably too much fuel causeing flooding) but will not start without the aid of either. Once warm it starts fine.

I've checked the fuel preasure regulator, also checked all the sensors, everything reads within specs with the exception of one of the two plugs for the TPS, one has the proper 5volts from the ecm and the proper varied voltage on the output, the other plug has nothing in and nothing out. The input wire is good and has continuity from the connector all the way to the corisponding pin on the ecm connector.

So, if you call trying to make my jeep run right, dpedending on the computer too much, then yea I guess I do.

Justin
 
XJMark said:
You need to find yourself the following Jeep service manual: 4.0 Liter Multi-point Fuel Injection (1987-1990 RENIX System). On the cover it has a picture of the 4.0 liter fuel rail on what looks like graph paper. This book along with a nice digital multimeter should be all you need to diagnose and correct any problem involving the RENIX system. It has detailed troubleshooting flowcharts too. So far there has not been an ECU related problem on my '88 that I have not been able to diagnose and service with this book.

HTH,

Mark

I've got that manual on .PDF

I went through the trouble shooting section in it, this is where I found that the TPS has only one of the two 5 volt sources.

Also in this manual is where it talks about using a scan tool with this system. Pg. 84 - 91 or so I believe.

Thanks again,
Justin
 
There is, or was, a code reader for the Renix system, and I believe there is still a module available for certain Snap-on rigs, but it's prohibitively expensive, since you need the basic unit as well as the plug-ins. No codes are stored, but the computer sends out a serial signal while it's running. If you search this forum hard enough, I think you'll come up with someone, I forget who, who actually possesses such a Snap-on kit. Jon "5-90" has been hoping to figure out how to hack the serial output, but I guess he hasn't got there yet. The problem, of course, is that even if you get a signal, you need to know what the numbers mean, and that information doesn't seem to be floating around. Unless you can find someplace that has the scanner, the best bet for now is, as stated above, to diagnose the individual sensors and components. But you might just hunt around for an independent garage that has a good diagnostic system and see if one of them has the Jeep module. They're out there somewhere.

The idea of a GM computer seems like an interesting one, although it also seems more trouble than it's worth. I have a Chilton fuel injection book that states (incorrectly, it seems) that all 6 Renix injectors are fired simultaneously. It does raise the question of whether such a system would work. If you were able, for example, to split the firing of the six into groups of three, timed simply so that no injector would fire into an open valve (ideally, the injector should fire at a closed intake valve just before it opens), I wonder how it would perform? I agree about the GM diagnostics. I found a plug-in code reader for my 88 Chevy truck at a tag sale for five bucks. It still just blinks lights, but now I don't even need the paper clip to tell me the oxygen sensor wire has rotted off again.
 
this may sound stupid, but what are the plugs in the engine bay near the radiator fluid reservoir? That have yellow covers that open to show plugs that look like they could be used for a scanner. BTW, this is an 87 Laredo.....
 
They used the scan tool to verify proper operation of the ECU. You'll note that they refer to using the DRB II tester when proper voltages do not exist. As far as the TPS the square connector is the only one you adjust for, IIRC the other connector gives feedback to the TCU (trans. control unit) on an automatic.

Incidentally I just read in that same manual that your air/fuel mix in open loop (cold) is controlled by the MAP sensor and that in closed loop the air/fuel mix is further controlled by feedback from the O2 sensor (page 6 of the .pdf) I'm assuming you have already properly calibrated the TPS per the manual so the next step is to investigate the MAP sensor's vacuum and electrical integrity.

Mark
 
karter74 said:
this may sound stupid, but what are the plugs in the engine bay near the radiator fluid reservoir? That have yellow covers that open to show plugs that look like they could be used for a scanner. BTW, this is an 87 Laredo.....

You are correct, these are the ports for the scanner mentioned above.

XJMark,
There is a shop here in town that supposivly has the correct scan tool...I was just hoping there was a way around going to them, as they are "Just Jeeps" and apparently think they are the only ones that can work on jeeps.

Another advantage to GM computer would be that you can build, or purchase, a ADL cable and download software and be able to get realtime info onto a laptop, not sure if said programs could change parameters on the system or just monitor them for optimum tuning....but it would sure be nice to have. As far as the injectors, there is kit by edlebrock or holley or somebody that is a bolt on kit to convert the TBI to a Multiport. However I'm not sure how they solved the injector firing sequience...not sure if they use the stock ECM or not, but on the GM it would be easy enough for them to use the pick-up in the distributor the same as the CPS fo the Renix system. Which that in itsself would be another advantage, if you ran the GM computer off the distributor pickup instead of the CPS then you would have more transmission choices such as a T18 I have sitting in my garage.

Justin
 
The renix does not use any codes but does have live data w/ a proper scan tool.

A rich mixture is commonly caused by a bad coolant sensor, a poor or inactive O2 or MAP. a bad injector or fuel pressure regulator can also give funky starts. A cold no start w/ ignition and fuel present is typically caused by bad secondary ignition components, including the coil/ign module combo, or a faulty CPS. The CPS is the most common culprit.
really rare for a RENIX computer to fail unless it has been drowned.
pretty sure the third wire on the TPS you speak of is the ground. 5v in, signal reference, and ground.
 
TNScrambler said:
You are correct, these are the ports for the scanner mentioned above.

XJMark,
There is a shop here in town that supposivly has the correct scan tool...I was just hoping there was a way around going to them, as they are "Just Jeeps" and apparently think they are the only ones that can work on jeeps.

Another advantage to GM computer would be that you can build, or purchase, a ADL cable and download software and be able to get realtime info onto a laptop, not sure if said programs could change parameters on the system or just monitor them for optimum tuning....but it would sure be nice to have. As far as the injectors, there is kit by edlebrock or holley or somebody that is a bolt on kit to convert the TBI to a Multiport. However I'm not sure how they solved the injector firing sequience...not sure if they use the stock ECM or not, but on the GM it would be easy enough for them to use the pick-up in the distributor the same as the CPS fo the Renix system. Which that in itsself would be another advantage, if you ran the GM computer off the distributor pickup instead of the CPS then you would have more transmission choices such as a T18 I have sitting in my garage.

Justin


It just occurs to me that I think you'll be unable to use the GM system unless you find a secondary computer or controller to take over ignition timing. As far as I know the GM does not handle this, but the Renix sure does. There is no ignition signal without the CPS telling the ECU what to do, and no native provision for timing adjustment, advance curves, etc. I think you'd have a real handful trying to overcome this - not to say it's impossible, but it seems unrewarding.
 
Yeah - coming up with something to tear apart the RENIX real-time driveability data stream is a pet project, and it is also a "blue-sky" goal. I've tracked down the last owners of RENIX, and I'm trying to open up communications with them (waiting for an answer now...)

I've seen the driveability data from the ECM via Snap-On MT2500 - there are no codes per se, just a buch of sensor feedback information. As mentioned, there really isn't that much to go wrong, and it's a pity the system was dropped in favour of OBD.

So, my "RENIX Decoded" project is stalled for two reasons at present;
1) Waiting for a line of communication to open
2) Trying to assemble a system to run on the bench and simulate operating conditions.

The latter keeps trying to happen in fits and starts - I'm a student, and getting eaten alive in tuition and books - and each time someone is willing to donate the system or parts for it, communications start to break down. I'd like to get something going, but I need to have a way to simulate the system, generate (then capture) the data, and I'd also have to get my hands on an MT2500 (or similar) to make sure I'm reading the serial data right.

Since it's a serial data stream, there's no reason a simpler reader can't be made using a BASIC Stamp or reading it thru a PDA, so the major hump is getting this going in the first place. I've got a programmer buddy who can probably help me with either route, so you can see where the bottleneck is. If something can be generated that will work with a PC, we're halfway there!

5-90
 
PaulJ said:
Rich mixture on a Renix is often caused by the hose to MAP sensor being disconnected or broken.

Hose is intact and connected...today I took my FI manual on disc to kinkos and had it printed out and bound so I actually now have a book to use while I'm actually at the jeep as opposed running back and forth to look at the guide.

Mathew: a GM TBI computer does control timing, you simply unplug the timing control wire, set initial timing, plug it back in and the computer does the rest, very similar to an aftermarket timing control kit like one from MSD or Jacobs, however either could be used with the GM system.

Justin
 
TNScrambler said:
You are correct, these are the ports for the scanner mentioned above.

XJMark,
There is a shop here in town that supposivly has the correct scan tool...I was just hoping there was a way around going to them, as they are "Just Jeeps" and apparently think they are the only ones that can work on jeeps.

Justin

Why does the name Just Jeeps make you think that they think they are the only ones that can work on jeeps? To me it means that they only work on jeeps so they are used to them and can figure them out quicker and know the common jeep problems. In other words its a good thing because they arn't just a normal independent mech who works on any make.

I'm also thinking of getting mine scanned and was just going to go to the dealer, wouldn't they still have the right stuff?

Also if you suspect the ECU what about just getting a junkyard one and swaping it?
 
Spanky414 said:
Why does the name Just Jeeps make you think that they think they are the only ones that can work on jeeps? To me it means that they only work on jeeps so they are used to them and can figure them out quicker and know the common jeep problems. In other words its a good thing because they arn't just a normal independent mech who works on any make.

I'm also thinking of getting mine scanned and was just going to go to the dealer, wouldn't they still have the right stuff?

Also if you suspect the ECU what about just getting a junkyard one and swaping it?

The name doens't mean that to me, its thier reputation that preceeds them as way overpriced. When I worked for a local 4x4 shop, we had many customers who came to us to get parts cheaper....however I called them today, and found thier price very reasonalbe to scan the computer, at $30. And said that I was welcome to be in the shop while they did this, seeing as how it would only be reading what was currently going on with the system. The guy I talked to seemed to share my frustration with the renix system....not saying its all bad, but the later systems are sure easier to troubleshoot standpoint...not from a modification standpoint....yes this is *my opinion* take it for what its worth....I don't want to start anything about the why one is better then the other....just thinking aloud.

Thanks to all for the help,
Justin
 
Justin,
I think we still need to figure out why your not getting voltage at the tps. Something about that is still bugging me. I guess Brett didn't have a spare ecu? I am not a fan of Just Jeeps but it maybe an idea to try their scanner. Let me know if you need some help getting it down there.
Also we never tested the map sensor if I remeber right.

I think we should just swap in a chevy small block, you gotta have one stuffed in that garage somewhere :)
 
Back
Top