Hiems vs tie rod end

I'm trying to decide on which way to strengthen my front end. One way is using HD tie rod ends and DOM tubing to basically make a HD duplication of the stock configuration. The other idea is to bore out both knuckles to accept heim rod ends, losing the Y style tie rod, and having both the main tie rod and steering rod go to the right side knuckle, sandwiching it.
Any ideas or pros/cons of either of these.

kid4lyf said:

I'm trying to decide on which way to strengthen my front end. One way is using HD tie rod ends and DOM tubing to basically make a HD duplication of the stock configuration. The other idea is to bore out both spindles to accept heim rod ends, losing the Y style tie rod, and having both the main tie rod and steering rod go to the right side spindle, sandwiching it.
Any ideas or pros/cons of either of these.

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By spindle, I think you mean knuckle... but to answer your question (TRE or Hiems), I say TRE. The misalignment is great, they're strong, and they're greasable.
Billy

not trying to hijack the thread, but to go along with his question-

does anyone know the legality of having heim steering in an inspection state? they failed me for having to much movement in my links(with TRE) and i dont want to build somthing then have to take it off because it wont pass inspection

kid4lyf said:

I'm trying to decide on which way to strengthen my front end. One way is using HD tie rod ends and DOM tubing to basically make a HD duplication of the stock configuration. The other idea is to bore out both knuckles to accept heim rod ends, losing the Y style tie rod, and having both the main tie rod and steering rod go to the right side knuckle, sandwiching it.
Any ideas or pros/cons of either of these.

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I'm at the same point...with my '92. Going taller, need new TR + DL anyway
I am thinking of something like the OTK system here http://bulletproofsteering.com/main.html
IIRC flexj runs this and is quite happy with it.

I just aquired an '87 with 4" of cheap lift and good stock steering will soon be my DD...so basically I don't need to worry about Hiems and road wear(I heard the salt up my way will kill 'em.), just getting to the trails and back. And staying with DOT regs. (need to stay legal, unfortunately)(haven't checked that one yet)

Still not quite sure, though.

my heims work great. i used to drive it every day. drives differently than TRE though. just letting u know.

stoney

i'm using heims as well and haven't had any problems with it. I've ran both ways and i think i actually prefer the hiems over the TRE's.

the post above is definetely right though about them not feeling the same.

oh yeah, this is also on my daily driver.

You will wear out the heims much faster than TRE's, especially if it's a dd - I have heims on my front end now, and wish I had TRE's (too much mud)

Heims = much stronger, tho.

What do you guys mean about it driving differently?

Does going to hiem joints raise the whole steering system out of harms way?

Finally, since I'm assuming that hiems are stronger than TREs, at what point does it become neccesary to increase the strength of the steering system? Is that partially determinied by the amount of lift or is just a matter of what you're destroying on the trial?

I know that those questions could fill a VERY long answer, but this is something new to me.

I look at hiems a little differently i guess......

even if there were raw facts that showed a similarly sized tre to be stronger, and last longer than a heim, I would still use heims, since I use a total of TWENTY, 3/4-16/5/8" heims, it is nice to be able to carry just a few spare heims that will take care of BOTH steering and suspension breakages....

as opposed to having to carry heims AND TRE's.....

could you guys please expound on the "drives different" comments? seems like it could only be tight or loose, which a TRE or rodend would be tight when new. how else could it be "different"? are you talking about other changes made at the same time, like going from old TREs to new rodends, or changing your steering angles?

My steering is twitchyer (not a word about the terminalogy!) It's tighter with the heims, which I like. But at the same time I also welded the little coupler in the steering shaft to take the play out of it also. I like heims. I've been running the same set for the last 3 years with no sign of wear, but this is not a DD & I live in a warm dry climate. Heims are also easier to deal with for trail repairs because they just unbolt rather than being swedged in.

Matt

OILBURNER said:

Heims = much stronger, tho.

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I call SPOBI! Heims of equal size are not stronger then TREs.

Beezil said:

I look at hiems a little differently i guess......

even if there were raw facts that showed a similarly sized tre to be stronger, and last longer than a heim, I would still use heims, since I use a total of TWENTY, 3/4-16/5/8" heims, it is nice to be able to carry just a few spare heims that will take care of BOTH steering and suspension breakages....

as opposed to having to carry heims AND TRE's.....

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Oh how times change for Mr. Used-To-Be-Anti-Heim. I agree, though. There is nothing like having your entire suspension and steering using the same joints so all you have to carry is 2 lefthand and 2 righthand thread spares, along with various lengths of tapped DOM.

It depends on what you want to accomplish. A 5/8" bore 3/4" thread heim will have a load rating of around 10 times a stock TRE. Heims are very, very simple to work with.

If you buy good quality, which means a very tight race to bearing tolerance so grit cannot get into the joint as well as an excellent teflon liner bonding process so the entire liner doesn't get spit out, then heims last a long time. Not as long as TRE's for daily driving, but longer for offroading. Heims got a bad name in offroading because the first units were cheap designs that spit out the teflon liner on the first major wheeling trip, destroying the joint.

Anyway, the more offroading you do, the more you will probably prefer heims. The more onroad driving you do, the more you will probably prefer TRE's. Some good heim choices include Aurora Bearing, QA1 and a couple others I can't remember right now. I daily drove my rig with a heim crossover setup and loved it. I think it is one of the best D30 mods you can do.

I think the reason people report a different driving experience with heims is the change to a crossover steering setup where the draglink and tierod are no longer connected (they both attached directly to the steering knuckle). I ran a heim crossover setup on my D30, and my D44 with hi-steer arms uses TRE's. I notice no difference between them as they are both crossover setups. I will probably switch to heims when the TRE's wear...but they are monsters so that should be awhile.

Keep in mind that when you raise the draglink you also need to raise the trackbar to avoid bumpsteer. A heavy duty TRE based setup mounted in the stock position will require no major modification, whereas a heim based setup will.

Good luck.

Nay

I use FK bearing. Nay is right, mine cost about $30 a piece. Quality is the key.

Matt

Nay said:

Oh how times change for Mr. Used-To-Be-Anti-Heim.

Nay

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I hate you, nay.

heims suck!

still have the t-shirt!


:kissyou:

what heims you guys using?? i found some TRE for like 9.50 was going to use them for my 4links. found them at http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/rodindx.htm would the econ 5/8s bore and tread work ok?

Bentonedge said:

what heims you guys using?? i found some TRE for like 9.50 was going to use them for my 4links. found them at http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/rodindx.htm would the econ 5/8s bore and tread work ok?

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USE QUALITY JOINTS.

trust me, "economy" ends will be good for one or two wheeling trips before they will start getting loose.

since 4 link set-ups not only locate the qaxle but also control axle rotation, you need your rod ends to remain TIGHT. once there is play, they will beat themselves silly.

if you can't afford quality rod ends, then save your money until you can....