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Fuel Injectors

heyhar

NAXJA Forum User
I've done some searching, but cannot seem to come up with all of the results in one place. Basically, I'd like to replace the injectors in my '96 4.0, and have seen the suggestions for the Ford 5.0 (4.9) units. Is it an issue that the 4.0's cylinders are a little larger than the 5.0's, and will it hurt power or economy? Better MPG is my goal, as even after a complete tune-up and new O2 sensor, very conservative driving, almost all Interstate, the best I can do is a whiskar over 16 MPG. Is there a difference concerning OBDI vs. OBDII, ao are the injectors forward and backward compatible? The 5.0 units supposedly have a better spray pattern, but is the rate and pressure acceptable? If they're trying to feed larger combustion chambers, will they be overworked or capable, and not cause a too lean condition, causing the ECM havoc trying to keep up? I know that this is a lot of questions, but I'm just not sure about jumping in if I'm just going to make matters worse. Thanks for your thoughts....Ray
 
Let's see if you find this sort of thing useful. I'm no engineer - to be sure - just a guy who's been working on engines since he was a kid...

While the cylinders in the AMC242 are a bit larger than in the Ford302, they're not that much larger, as I recall, and that's really not the larger issue anyhow. As long as the rated delivery is comparable (there is a formula for correcting flow rate for different pressure - I just don't recall it offhand. I've got it, and I can look it up if you like...) you'll be fine. Recall that the fuel injector doesn't spray directly into the cylinder, so it's less of an issue than you think. Also, the AMC242 tends to run at lower crankshaft speeds than the Ford302, so that will also help keep things in line (most people cruise with their AMC242 down around 2000-3000rpm, while I've seen up around 4000rpm as typical for the 302. Hell, the AMC242 redlines right around 5500-6000rpm anyhow...)

Going with the later Ford or Chevvy injectors should help fuel mileage. As I recall, the Ford units have four spray holes (vice one for the AMC,) and the Chevvy units have either four or six. Since delivery is comparable, that means the spray holes are smaller - resulting in smaller fuel droplets and better atomisation. Since the fuel is more finely atomised, combustion may be more efficient (liquid gasoline is barely flammable, while vapourised gasoline borders on explosive. This is why fuel atomisation is so important, what makes FAE bombs work, and why - paradoxically - a full fuel can is somewhat safer than one that has just been emptied...)

Fuel injectors aren't specific to any particular "control system" - unless the electrical plus is different (in which case, you simply change the plug.) All a fuel injector is is a solenoid valve with a spray nozzle - not much to it. The only time you might run into trouble is if you have a "saturation" injector being replaced by a "peak and hold" injector - or the other way around - but that's an electrical difference. Production vehicles, as I recall, typically have "peak and hold" injectors, and should have resistance around 12-16 ohms when checked (I think. I'd have to look this up to be sure.) "Saturation" injectors are almost non-existant in production vehicles, so as long as your injectors are for production vehicles that are fairly common, you'll be fine (again, I may have the types reversed - but this can be verified fairly easily through the use of Google-Fu. The rest of the facts are good.) A lot of OBD-II SBFord injectors end up on RENIX rigs (which are "pre-OBD,") without incident.

Fuel metering is monitored by the oxygen sensor (HEGO) and is trimmed by the ECU altering the pulse width driving the injector - which changes the amount of time it's open, and the volume of fuel delivered. As long as you're not running past about 80% of the injector's total capacity (fuel injectors are typically rated for "delivery at 80% duty cycle anyhow," since you need to go larger if the thing is "locked open!") just don't need more fuel than the injector is rated to deliver. If you've got 19# units in, and you're consuming 20# per hour, get some 21# injectors and you'll be fine (you can also get 20# injectors, but there's no sense in not leaving yourself a little room.) I'd have to look up the equation for necessary fuel delivery - I've got that somewhere as well (it can be figured theoretically, using piston displacement; or it can be figured practically, using the airflow through the engine. The latter requires a dyno run or three.)

Short form? Go ahead and use the SBF/SBC injectors, you'll be fine. The XJ units are rated for 19-21#/hour, IIRC - while the SBC/SBF units are rated for 21-23#/hour. (I'd have to check. Both of these ratings are approximate, and would be for 39psig and 80% duty cycle. The SBC/SBF units would be a "corrected" flow rate, since I think they're actually rated up around 49psig.)

You're going to make me look up the maths, aren't you?:gee:
 
Thanks for the quick reply- I did some more poking around, and found that the '96 to '99 4.0 uses 23.2#/hr, or 235cc/min. @49psi. I'm interested in the multi-spray pattern as opposed to the single pintle of the stockers. I'm looking to improve on the 16MPG, as my '92, back on the road since a wreck last January, still, at 200k miles, gets noticeably better MPG, with stock induction and a hollow cat and loud Flowmaster. I'm thinking of going to the U-pull-it, and see if I can score some SBF or SBC injectors, and maybe run a comparison. I know there's only so much that can be done to get economy from the brick-like aerodynamics of our favorite obsession, but I miss the days of re-jetting carbs, and trying to coax a few more horses or miles out of my late, great '63 Grand Prix 421!...Ray
 
heyhar said:
Thanks for the quick reply- I did some more poking around, and found that the '96 to '99 4.0 uses 23.2#/hr, or 235cc/min. @49psi. I'm interested in the multi-spray pattern as opposed to the single pintle of the stockers. I'm looking to improve on the 16MPG, as my '92, back on the road since a wreck last January, still, at 200k miles, gets noticeably better MPG, with stock induction and a hollow cat and loud Flowmaster. I'm thinking of going to the U-pull-it, and see if I can score some SBF or SBC injectors, and maybe run a comparison. I know there's only so much that can be done to get economy from the brick-like aerodynamics of our favorite obsession, but I miss the days of re-jetting carbs, and trying to coax a few more horses or miles out of my late, great '63 Grand Prix 421!...Ray

I hear you - I cut my teeth on old Corvettes.

JY pulls are something I'd send to an FI shop to have cleaned and checked tho - or I'd just get them from a shop that sells pulls that are already gone through.

For the former, check your phone book for Diesel injector shops - they can usually service gasoline injectors (any gasoline injectors I have to deal with around here I send to Coast Fuel Injection - even though they're a Diesel shop...) For the latter, check outfits like FiveOMotorports (www.fiveomotorsports.com, I think.) A lot of people here order their replacement injectors from them - I think they even have a part number for a Jeep six kit now to simplify things.
 
5-90 said:
For the latter, check outfits like FiveOMotorports (www.fiveomotorsports.com, I think.) A lot of people here order their replacement injectors from them - I think they even have a part number for a Jeep six kit now to simplify things.

x2, bruce is a good buy. i bought two sets from him for my Renix Jeeps. (89 mj and 90 xj) to replace old leaky jeep units

they have better flow than the jeep units. i cannot prove that they improved MPGs or power at all, but i have never had any problems from them

-Tim
 
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