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Renix vs. HO (-96)

XJMarty

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Czech Republic
I have been thinking about his for a long time, did a search but found nothing.

Are there any realy disadvantages/ advantages of any type of engine/injection over the other?

Reliability? Fixability? :)

I know the renixes are older, but anyway any pros cons?

I have both 89 renix and 93 HO, did not have problems with either, but still I am curious.
 
The HO has a little bit more HP. Larger injectors and throttle body. The cooling systems are different. The HO being open and easier to deal with when you work on it. The closed is a pain to burp and can blow up it when you do it wrong. Like hoses reservoir bottles and stuff like that. I've did a few mods to my renix and it is more powerful then a stock HO now for fairly cheap. Lots of low end torque.
They both have small advantages and disadvantages. Both are damn good engines.
 
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XJMarty said:
I know about the cooling system, I have also an "open" on my renix.

There is a larger Mustang injector that will work on the renix I'm looking at getting 6 of those and a larger throttle body next for the next engine mod. That may be a while though. I usually throw my money into the axles and suspension.
 
XJMarty said:
I have been thinking about his for a long time, did a search but found nothing.

Are there any realy disadvantages/ advantages of any type of engine/injection over the other?

Reliability? Fixability? :)

I know the renixes are older, but anyway any pros cons?

I have both 89 renix and 93 HO, did not have problems with either, but still I am curious.

OBD-I trouble code and scanner availability for the HO and a lack of scanners for the Renix jeeps would be one possibly significant difference for many people. I have 3 Renix Jeeps right now. The OBD-1 uses a different O2 sensor from the Renix. I suspect the Renix O2 sensor is better than the HO's, Renix O2 sensor has more precision since it has a 5 volt span instead of a 1 volt span. The Renix computers seem to me indestructable.

Just a guess, but I would suspect the computer in the OBD-I has more CPU speed and memory, so it might have a better, tighter control algorithm than the Renix.
 
I happen to prefer RENIX, but I'm not a huge fan of OBD (OBD-I was originally mandated by the State of California, OBD-II is an improvement, but it still causes the 'shotgun repair' syndrome...)

RENIX has been quite reliable for me. Yes, I've also owned vehicles with OBD-I and OBD-II - not Jeeps, but I've worked with the systems. There have been more than a few times where the diagnostic codes the system would toss out were merely directive (the component hadn't failed - but there was a wiring or ground fault...) and a couple of times where it was just plain wrong (and an understanding of engine control setups lead to the actual fault, rather than what OBD thought it was.)

I'm sure OBD can be refined into a decent, workable system (start with OBD-II though - it was mandated by SAE, rather than CARB...) but no level of onboard integral diagnostics can replace intelligent troubleshooting - no matter how much you pay Zimbu the Monkey, it's not worth it if you haven't educated him. He's got to be able to troubleshoot on his own as well - and provide his own interpretation of failures and OBD codes.

I also prefer RENIX (in this specific instance) because it was built to AMC specifications, rather than Chrysler. The RENIX blocks are rather overbuilt - because that was the way AMC did things. The later heads may breathe better, but they will fit neatly on the RENIX block anyhow. But, the RENIX block used a high-nickel iron alloy for casting (making it rather tough) and the critical surfaces of the casting - particularly the head deck and cylinder walls - are significantly thicker than later blocks, making them more tolerant of machine work. Another plus.
 
boise49ers said:
I've did a few mods to my renix and it is more powerful then a stock HO now for fairly cheap. Lots of low end torque.

I'm just curious about the mods you made to the renix engine? Mine is bone stock, and it's a pretty good engine but I havn't even thought of tinkering with it too much. Where would be a good place to start? I just replaced my exhaust with OEM parts (because they were so cheap), so I won't be putting money into the exhaust any time soon, but I'm curious to try a conical air filter for better flow..and hopefully a bit more power and a slight increase in mileage.
 
I've had an 87, a 95 and a 99, and others in my immediate family have had an 88, a 93 and a 96. They're all good. The 87, 88, and 95 all went well beyond 200 thousand miles. The 95 is in service now at 262K, and my 99 is up to 185K. Most of the differences are nitpicking, and I'd choose between them for other issues such as condition and features before worrying about the electronic system.

Small issues:

The cam position sensor on the 95 is vastly easier to replace than that on the 93.

The belt arrangement on 96-up is much nicer than earlier setup.

I like the later cooling system. The plastic pressure tank in the Renix was a PITA and the cap was also a weak spot.

Renix seems to be a little more sensitive to wiring and connector faults in its own harness, but Chrysler system is very sensitive to a bad battery.

Renix injectors tended to leak, whereas it seems the later ones don't.

Renix EGR is a pain. The knock sensor, though, is a plus.
 
Wow said:
Renix sucks. HO are better in every way.
So does Chrysler pay you to say stuff like this? I also like how you dont mention anything to back up your opinion.

Let me quote Matt Currie here from another thread. He sums it up perfectly...

Matthew Currie said:
It took Chrysler a few years to de-ramblerize the XJ. I would consider the 88-90 transitional, still more AMC than Chrysler, despite some evolution and some parts takeover. As far as 4.0's go, this makes the 87 the crowning achievement of AMC. Considering that the 4.0/ AW4 combination was new that year, its durability and quality make it a pretty impressive first-year model. 91 marks the beginning of the Mopar fuel injection system, but even then it took a while before they changed over the seats and the steering column, and a few more (97) before they changed the body and interior significantly.

They all have their virtues. I think the AMC bodies seem to have been a little more resistant to rot, and a little better stamped out. My 95 is a rustbucket, and all the panels seem just a little wrinkly, despite its obviously hit-free life. The 87 looked better made, and although it rotted too, some parts, such as the rocker panels, didn't go nearly as quickly. The roof rot also seems worse on the later ones. My 95 has puddles on the floor all the time from various undetectable leaks, and has always had a cold draft under the dash that I have not been able to trace.

The AMC era paint had terrible clear coat problems, which seem to have disappeared some time in the 90's. My stepson's 93 never had this, nor does the 95.

The Mopar era AX15 5-speed is certainly an improvement over the Peugeot BA10 that AMC put in. I found both the Renix and Mopar injection systems well designed and relatively trouble free, but the Mopar has an improved crank position sensor, and the injectors don't leak so readily. The REnix era cooling system, although it works all right when it works, is a little harder to keep healthy, and the plastic pressure tank tends to crack. The Mopar OBDI is pretty handy. OBD II of course is handier still. Renix systems require a little more sleuthing sometimes to diagnose.

Wiring issues have been mentioned. The 87 had many connector and harness issues, and in general the later ones are a bit improved in that department, although all of my XJ's have had some problems with wiring, bad grounds, corroded light connectors, bad connectors, and in the case of the 93, a defective splice deep in the fuel injection harness that was a real PITA to track down. All XJ's have cheap wiring of absolutely minimal gauge, but they've improved some of the connectors over the years.

The 99 feels more solid and tight than the 95. The 95 seats were a definite step down from the 87, and the Mopar steering column sucks. The wiper switch has fewer intermittent settings, the horn buttons are never where you need them, and it's almost impossible to signal in a hurry without flicking the wipers to the wash position, whereupon they wipe the dry scratchy windshield 3 times. The previous Saginaw column was better. The 97-up column is better too.

Interior storage post 97 is awful. It was never very good, but on the 99 it's pathetic. The only thing they improved was the cupholders.

AMC era 4.0 engines seem not to have had the piston slap problems that plague the later ones. My 87 was quiet even after 200K miles. The 95 has slapped since I got it at 110K, but after another 150K it seems trivial.

The early 4.0's had overboosted power steering. Later ones have a little heavier feel. Renix era brakes were marginal, and although I've never had ABS, I hear that the ABS was particularly problematic, subject to various recalls and extra warranties. By 93, the brakes had gotten pretty strong. The brakes on the 95 and 99 are pretty powerful. All XJ rear brakes are crap, and the self adjusters a joke, but that's more a general complaint about American drum brakes. My 95 has gone over 260 thousand miles with the original drums and rotors, though!

Of course the main thing wrong with Chrysler and the XJ is that they stopped making them!

As J99XJ says, they're all XJ's and they're all good. I must take exception to one detail of his report regarding the SJ. It's true Kaiser designed it and AMC continued it with a new grille, but they also disembarrassed it of what might possibly be the worst engine ever made, certainly the worst ever put in a Jeep, and incidentally the only contribution Kaiser made to the Jeep engine line, since they kept the Willys designs or borrowed from AMC and GMC for all the others. I'm referring to the infamous "Tornado" OHC 6, which like some other historically bad engines (e.g. the Chevy Vega, the Ramber Aluminum V8, the Crosley Cobra come to mind) was a brilliant and innovative design which had a host of virtues, as long as you didn't actually use it.
 
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Wow said:
Renix sucks. HO are better in every way.
SSSHHHH

ADULTS ARE TALKING!!
:looser: :twak: :bs:
 
i prefer the HO over the renix. less emissions stuff to go wrong, and to interfere with the performance of the engine. the wiring is "cleaner", the computer is more accessible with scanners/readers, etc..etc..

overall i think it's just a combination of a bunch of small things. but in my opinion they add up enough to make it worth holding out for a HO jeep.
 
the renix system is more adaptable, so if you're planning on doing serious motor mods I'd go renix.
otherwise, and I say this owning 2 87's, get an HO.
Yes, the renix system is bulletproof.
Yes, I think that AMC built them better.

But the wiring, oh the wiring.
AMC didn't know crap about tidy wiring, the amazing thing is that I've got an 87 MJ and an 87 XJ, they've got major differences in wiring. I also like the added touch of AMC using duct tape to hold crimped connections underneath the coolant bottle, hidden in wire loom. Oh, and fusible links, those are a good time.

All that said, I still like the renix system better than the HO system, it's just that you have to be prepared to hate it for the first 6 months you own it. until you learn how to service the renix system you'll be lost. If you're a check engine light mechanic, you'll hate it.
Spend about a month going through the wiring harness and a renix machine will be good to go. Renix tends to get better mileage as well, I pull a solid 22-24MPG in the MJ on the highway.
 
87manche said:
the renix system is more adaptable, so if you're planning on doing serious motor mods I'd go renix.
otherwise, and I say this owning 2 87's, get an HO.
Yes, the renix system is bulletproof.
Yes, I think that AMC built them better.

But the wiring, oh the wiring.
AMC didn't know crap about tidy wiring, the amazing thing is that I've got an 87 MJ and an 87 XJ, they've got major differences in wiring. I also like the added touch of AMC using duct tape to hold crimped connections underneath the coolant bottle, hidden in wire loom. Oh, and fusible links, those are a good time.

All that said, I still like the renix system better than the HO system, it's just that you have to be prepared to hate it for the first 6 months you own it. until you learn how to service the renix system you'll be lost. If you're a check engine light mechanic, you'll hate it.
Spend about a month going through the wiring harness and a renix machine will be good to go. Renix tends to get better mileage as well, I pull a solid 22-24MPG in the MJ on the highway.

X2:patriot:
 
The only piece of Chry Co. in my 87 is rear shoulder belt. I dig the RENIX due to the fact it takes brains and patience (and a DVOM) which too many people in society lack.

WOW: I knew that was going to bring some serious opinion to the table.
 
That was a design change at Aisin Warner I have read about and Jeep altered their stuff to match saving a few dollars. The AW4 was used in other applications besides the Jeep. IIRC Toyota also used it in their vehicles and they were a larger purchaser than Jeep in the early 90s, so Jeep did the changes to comply and get the transmission a little cheaper from AW.
 
j99xj said:
If the Renix engines have more torque why did Jeep upgrade the AW4 to 23 splines with the HO?
Not really more torque. Just a modified torque curve. The renix made it down low - 2500ish. The early model HOs made it around 4500. They tweaked that back down a couple years later.

That said, I have had 4 Renix XJs and 1 HO and I have loved 'em all. Presently I have a '90 beater with 165K miles I picked up for cheap. Got a low end knock and pees in the driveway but still runs like a scalded dog. Have a '92 with 205K miles that runs like new. Just did front brakes and put it on 31s, so I guess I'll keep it at least until the engine is broken in.
 
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