No turn signals and no blower, electric Gremlins

Earlier today I took a trip and the A/C-Heat Blower would not turn on. I checked the Blower Fuse, it is OK, then I checked the fuse box and found no power to the Blower fuse connections in the fuse box (?) and I verified no power is getting to the blower (checked them with a Multi meter)

The fan/blower switch is less than 2 years old, the blower speed resistor pack is 3 months old, the blower is less than 2 years old.

Then an hour ago I took a trip and discovered the turn signals had stopped working. So I checked the turn signal fuse, it is OK.

Everything else, electrical is still working perfectly (to the best of my knowledge). This is a 1987, Renix, Wagoneer, 4wd, Jeep.

Any ideas???

I am thinking it is a bad wire behind the fuse box since the Blower and turn Signals have separate fuses. Planning to pull the fuse box off the firewall tomarrow.

Any other sugestions????

Is your radio by any chance not working also? If so, could be your ignition switch going bad.

scca28 said:

Is your radio by any chance not working also? If so, could be your ignition switch going bad.

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Ignition switch is new (less than 1 year old). The wiring inside this jeep and around the Fuse box looks new considering it is 20 years old It is quite surprising how well it has held up. My 85 jeeps wiring and fuse box is mostly bypassed, history.

The radio has never worked, probably due to an antenna problem (no antenna) and I have not had time to fiddle with replacing it, yet.

Does this XJ have a clutch? If so, you might be looking at brake fluid leaking from the master cylinder. Electrical contact cleaner works good, pulling out each and every fuse and making all contact areas shiny helps.

The path is from the ignition switch, through a splice to the horn relay, front wiper circuit breaker, through the splice to a bus (shared power) for the blower motor fuse, rear wiper fuse, radio/clock fuse, turn signal fuse.

OK, now we are getting somewhere. Power on, engine running, I have no HORN, no blower, no radio, no front wipers or wiper water pumps, no turn signals, and I think I lost the rear window defroster. The rear back up lights and the rear wiper are also dead.

So where is the horn relay. With all of these items dead where is beginning and end of the wire carying all these loads?

What I need now is a wiring diagram from the battery to the igntion switch which is not in any of my manuals, that I can find. I am pretty sure I am good at the ignition switch in/out because I fixed that mess at the switch including a new switch (a few burned wires and the burned out ign switch) last year.

I have tested all the fuse links under the hood near the battery and I have power on the output side of all the fuse links, so that rules out all the fuse links and the main power relay near the battery (start relay?).

The wire goes form the ignition switch to a splice and then branches out. Brown 12 gauge wire from the ignition switch to the splice and brown to a fuse block bus.
The power to the ignition switch is from a fusible link.
If the rear back up lights and the power windows are out, it's likely the fusible link or the wire from the link to the ignition switch. The power for the back up lights and the power windows goes through a different circuit in the ignition switch and exits by another wire, but shares the same fusible link.
I replaced one of my fusible links with a regular old spade fuse, soldered in a receptical to accept the fuse, I used 30 AMP fuse (it hasn't blown yet). I never have found the info on the ampere ratings on the various fusible links. I do know they are different ratings.
My diagram did mention the fusible link for the ignition switch is supposed to be green and has a 12 gauge red wire going from it to the ignition switch.

You have to disconnect the fusible links and ohm test them. Been there done that, it's possible a circuit is crossed and your getting power to both sides of a blown link. I wasted hours one day trusting a volt meter, right there at the links.
Your probably going to have to ohm test the wire from the link to the bulk head connector anyway.
I don't envy you having to mess with the bottom bulk head connector. If you have to take it off, remember there is a cover that has to be removed to unscrew a screw going through the connector. It looks like one piece, it isn't.
Cleaning the old die electric grease out of that thing is a mess and takes a bit of scrubbing and a couple of cans of brake cleaner.

The source for all those items is the BRN wire starting at the ign switch.

Ecomike said:

I have tested all the fuse links under the hood near the battery and I have power on the output side of all the fuse links, so that rules out all the fuse links and the main power relay near the battery (start relay?).

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The start relay is just a handy spot to connect all the fusible links, it has no bearing on the power supply.

OK, I finally found the ignition switch wiring diagram in my own archives. Looks like it has to be the brown wire on the ignition switch, or the igntion switch itself output side. Anywhere else, before or after the igntion switch would casue other additonal problems, or would allow the horn to work.

langer1 said:

The source for all those items is the BRN wire starting at the ign switch.

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The backup lights and the power windows (and a couple of other fuses and circuit breakers) are powered off the GRN wire (I'm pretty sure) from the ignition switch. Much of the rest is the BRN wire.
Which leads me to believe the problem may be in the switch or before the switch.

8Mud said:

The wire goes form the ignition switch to a splice and then branches out. Brown 12 gauge wire from the ignition switch to the splice and brown to a fuse block bus.
The power to the ignition switch is from a fusible link.
If the rear back up lights and the power windows are out, it's likely the fusible link or the wire from the link to the ignition switch. The power for the back up lights and the power windows goes through a different circuit in the ignition switch and exits by another wire, but shares the same fusible link.
I replaced one of my fusible links with a regular old spade fuse, soldered in a receptical to accept the fuse, I used 30 AMP fuse (it hasn't blown yet). I never have found the info on the ampere ratings on the various fusible links. I do know they are different ratings.
My diagram did mention the fusible link for the ignition switch is supposed to be green and has a 12 gauge red wire going from it to the ignition switch.

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Minor correction. The Back up lights are on the same fuse as the turn signals. Both are dead right now. The power windows still work. According to the ignition switch wiring drawing I am looking at the engine would not start if the fuseable link that also carries the blower, radio, turn signals, etc, was bad. So it has to be the igniton switch connection at the brown wire or the brown wire itself at the igniton switch that is open.

Thanks for all the help today! I will post an update later. Hopefully it will be a update.

Ecomike said:

OK, I finally found the ignition switch wiring diagram in my own archives. Looks like it has to be the brown wire on the ignition switch, or the igntion switch itself output side. Anywhere else, before or after the igntion switch would casue other additonal problems, or would allow the horn to work.

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There is one power wire into the ignition switch RED and two power out wires that run to seperate buses at the fuse block, GRN and BRN. I'm fairly sure the 87 is the same as my 88.
The way you discribed your problem, you are loosing power on two seperate buses and muiltiple fuses, on seperate cable runs after the ignition switch.
But like I mentioned before, trusting the seperate runs to be truly seperate can be a time waster. It all depends on how good your grounds are.

8Mud said:

There is one power wire into the ignition switch RED and two power out wires that run to seperate buses at the fuse block, GRN and BRN. I'm fairly sure the 87 is the same as my 88.
The way you discribed your problem, you are loosing power on two seperate buses and muiltiple fuses, on seperate cable runs after the ignition switch.
But like I mentioned before, trusting the seperate runs to be truly seperate can be a time waster. It all depends on how good your grounds are.

Click to expand...

Looking over the diagram and actual wiring there is one single hot, red wire coming in to the igntion switch.

There is a large (12 ga.) orange output wire (runs the electric door locks and windows (30 amp fuse) and the dash clock (10 amp fuse) all through two fuses.

Then a large (12 ga) yellow wire that runs to the radiator fan switch, igntion coli, alternator (but no fuse?), gauges & ignition on the cruise control modual (through a 7.5 amp fuse in the fuse box), the transmision, pwr/cfmt sw., gear select swtch., & back up lights and BU lights switch (7.5 amp fuse).

Then a small green wire that goes to the starter relay.

I noted the ignition switch also makes several ground connections for the instrument cluster, parking brake and brake warning sw(?) in the run and start positions. I mention this becasue I was thinking of rewiring everthing and eliminating the Dam$ ignition switch, so I had to see what all it actually does.

So then we are down to the last wire, the #$@!*&$# Brown Wire. It feeds the horn relay (and horn), rear wiper washer (25 amp), car lighter, radio and washer fluid level sensor (15 amp fuse), A/C heater & blower (25 amp, but I use 30 amp fuses), turn signal, back up light, & defogger sw., (20 amp). Lets see that adds up 90 amps of fuses on that #$@!*&$# 12 gauge brown wire!

WHAT were they thinking?! The fuse(s) total capacity (the part that is fused, and not all of it is fused) of what goes through the red wire is 149.5 amps!

Well it turned out the new (barely one year old autozone) ignition switch went bad.:bawl: From the outside it had definate signs of overheating. From the inside, it had a sudden spring/electrical contact slider part bind up bend, shift out of position and fail and as a result the brown wire was no longer getting power.

I was so ticked at having to replace the switch hastaafter just one year (I had spent weeks in bad weather and the dark at night trying to get to that switch and wiring, troublshooting another problem and evetually reparing some wiring and connectors on the Ign Sw. and replaced the ign sw., and it was the first time I had worked on an XJ in that comfortably tight little area. )

Well I decided I did not want to be doing this futile excercise again:flamemad:. So I tapped the red wire before it connects to the igntion switch and split off a Y connection with 10 ga. wire, ran it to a new 35 amp toggle switch, and then to the brown wire (which no longer attaches to the ignition switch).

I need to mount the new switch I added tomarrow.

I am also pulling the fuse box to check and tighten some loose fuse holder terminals, and I will probably rewire and bypass the fuse box with a new 30 amp fuse and wire for the A/C, heat, blower line just to make sure that entire line is fresh, clean and tight as I was already having some issues there.

Lastly, for clarification, the only green wire on my 87 Renix Wagoneer 4x4 Ltd., igniton switch is about 18 ga. and it goes directly to the electric starter solenoid, and no where else.

Hopefully these modifications will outlast the jeep, like maybe 10 to 15 years or more.

Lastly, I took some photos while I was under there today as I found several relays that I have no idea what they are for. I will post them later with some comments and the obvious questions.

Forgot one thing. I had a spare wiring harness I had bought off ebay a while back. I pulled it out today to see about robbing it for connectors to do the repairs with and noticed that the fuse box and the starter switch wiring had several differences. I suspect that the spare wiring harness was off of a non power window non power locks, non A/C, heat only jeep, unlike mine. Needless to say it was no help to me today.:rattle:

Are you sure it isn't the ignition switch module located under the dash on top of the steering wheel? I lost turnsignals and controls. The jeep would still start. I searched jeep forums and came up with the fix. Bought one from Napa and was up and running. When I disected the old one, it was fried.

Ken

http://www.napaonline.com/masterpages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=ECH&PartNumber=KS6622&Description=Ignition+Switch+w%2f+Tilt+Wheel

Ecomike said:

Well it turned out the new (barely one year old autozone) ignition switch went bad.:bawl: From the outside it had definate signs of overheating. From the inside, it had a sudden spring/electrical contact slider part bind up bend, shift out of position and fail and as a result the brown wire was no longer getting power.

Click to expand...

Sounds like the same meltdown mine had. Only my switch contact melted in the off position, so we couldn't turn the key. But previous to that, I was having occassional bouts of radio/heater not working until I turned off and restarted. The wiring up to the switch looked fine, just showed signs of heating right where the brown wire was plugged into the switch. Got me to thinking though, since your switch was only a year old, maybe it is a good idea to run some new supply lines to high draw accessories like the heater blower,etc.??? Just bypass the ign. switch like you said, and run your own seperate switch.