Looking for a DANA 44 for up front NEED HELP

[Nik]

Just a quick question, I'm heading to the junkyard to look for a Dana 44 to strip down and place up front on a 88 Xj, I was just wondering, what sort of truck or suv can I find a simple D44 to swap right into the front. I got a bud who will fab the coil spring perches, comtrol arm brackets, and all that other good stuff. I saw a chevy with a 8 lug 3/4 ton up front w/discs which I almost pulled exxcept that the gearbox was on the wrong side. Just need a list of what sorta truck or suvs I am looking for. I dont have too deep of pockets but deep enough for a salvage yard. Thanks for any help

Thanks

Nik

[KarmirXJ]

unless you wanna go full width axles, or shorten them, waggy D44 is your best bet. just put up the brackets and your ready to go. ( you will have to change the rear bolt pattern though)

[dave]

lots of guys grab 79 ford truck.. high pinion dana 44 fronts.. only issue is unless you decide to run radius arms up front you'll probably have to have it retubed. the waggy widetrack 44s that came in NON-quadratrac waggy's work well but as stated previously the bolt pattern is different.. its 5 on 5.5

[JnJ]

First off, there is no Wide Track waggy axle. The wide tracks only came in the fullsize Cherokee model. The most common lug pattern is 6 on 5.5 for the driverside drop axles.

The only real problems with the waggy 44 is making and welding on brackets, and the lug pattern. Since your buddy can do the brackets, your only issue will be the bolt pattern, why not just get both waggy axles and then you'd be set. The rear is pretty much a bolt in swap.
Also beware of the front vac operated axles, they'll have a vacuum actuator (SP?) on the diff housing.

[dave]

sorry thats just how i always referred to them .. its not an xj so they all look the same to me :D

[Beezil]

why would you have to re-tube?

[Flowers]

Originally posted by dave
lots of guys grab 79 ford truck.. high pinion dana 44 fronts.. only issue is unless you decide to run radius arms up front you'll probably have to have it retubed. the waggy widetrack 44s that came in NON-quadratrac waggy's work well but as stated previously the bolt pattern is different.. its 5 on 5.5

What about the width of that 79 Ford?

Flowers

[LRRH]

wanna by a waggy with dual 44s?? chicago.......

[Ghost]

Width would be about 66" on the 78-79 Ford front.

[FarmerMatt]

Retubing is needed on the later ford axles because the "C" bushing mounts are cast pieces. The tube doesn't extend all the way through. The tube between the cast mount & knuckle is one piece & the tube between the cast mount & pumkin is a completly seperate piece. If you're going to keep the "C" bushings than this axle is ideal. All you have to do is cut the inner long side tube down, grind & press that piece of tube out of the cast mount, press the cast piece back on the shortened side tube, & weld it up. If you're wanting to retain the stock style XJ brackets than the 3/4 ton ford would be a better choice because it had leaf springs in the front which the mounts are easy to remove, but it will also be 8 lug. The other would be an earlier ford axle with the welded on "C" mounts, but are more difficult to remove.

Matt

[JnJ]

I've seen a few folks use the HP pumkin from the Ford, and retube it to waggy width. This allows use of waggy shafts instead of custom shafts and a High pinion pumkin instead of the waggy's LP pumkin.
I currently have a waggy 44 under the front of mine, but I also have a 79 Ford 44 bare housing setting in the garage. Haven't decided if I'll do this swap yet.

[Root Moose]

Is the HP really worth it?

Just thinking out loud, wondering if it is worth the bother...

Sure it is a little stronger and it reduces your drive shaft angle but beyond that it seems to be a lot of work for little gain to me.

If you are breaking regular cut D44 stuff then a D60 is probably in your future.

Thoughts?

r@m

[Flowers]

Originally posted by Ghost
Width would be about 66" on the 78-79 Ford front.

My point exactly!

Flowers

[Beezil]

farmer....

is this true for 79 broncos only?

I guess "79 fords" is too general of a description of these 44's....

I don't know much about which things had what, all I know is I have a 79 f250 44 that didn't have the casting, it was set up for leaf springs, which was why I wasn't sure why the thing needed to be retubed. I've seen what you are talking about though, just wasn't sure which vehicles those are found on....

[JnJ]

Originally posted by Root Moose
Is the HP really worth it?

Just thinking out loud, wondering if it is worth the bother...

Sure it is a little stronger and it reduces your drive shaft angle but beyond that it seems to be a lot of work for little gain to me.

If you are breaking regular cut D44 stuff then a D60 is probably in your future.

Thoughts?

r@m

I guess this is what I'm trying to figure out now. I'm gonna run it like it is and see if the HP would help anything. I haven't got it on the trail yet, so it's still in the "working out the bugs" process.

BTW, I got the HP44 free, so I couldn't pass it up. If I don't use it on this XJ, I'll hold it for a future project.

[dave]

i like the high pinion option because i've watched people slide down thier long arms quite often if that pinion was lower than the arms it might not look too pretty afterwards... guess it just all depends on where your arms are located.....

oh yeah and farmermatt kudos on the article in the magazine those radius arms got the wheels turning for me ... too bad my oil pan, exhaust etc etc etc are in the way :D

[FarmerMatt]

As far as I know all f150 & broncos from 78 through to the twin I beam years used the cast mounts. This isn't set in stone & I'm pulling this from memory so there could be some exceptions. The f250's used leafs & are 8 lug.

Low pinion vs. high pinion is an old argument that has been hashed out many times. Bottom line is that the high pinion is stronger, but more work to put in. It will also give you better pinion angles & raise the drive shaft up further out of harms way. Having said that I'm running a low pinion front & worry very little about the ring & pinion strength. The high pinion front-end is an all around better axle & offers real benefits over the low. Whether the benefits are worth the extra work to build it are up to you.

Thanks for the props. dave. My wife says she's going to attach a valve to my mouth & start filling up balloons with all the hot air from my swollen head.

Matt

[dave]

tell your wife that any of us would be the same way :D someday my junk will be in there.. but i'm sure it will be when a small block isnt unique or cool anymore and its an " old tech" write-up :P

[COXJ]

ok i know this may be stupid and i may get hammered for it but im gonna ask. why exactly do you want to go with a 44? am i corredt in that newer XJ with high pinion 30 have the same size u joints as a d 44? and if ya get a pair of warn shafts there about as strong just not a big. sure the ring and pinion is not as befe but from my understanding unless you are crazy or buy cheap ring and pinion sets(which i consider crazy) un less ya go numaricly highre then 4.56 then for the most part you wont worry much at all untill what 37s about breaking them. housing strenght may be a concern but you can truss the housing with less effort then it would take to put all new brackets on a new axel and may end um stronger. ok now yell at me curse me what ever just wanted to throw this on the table. and please if i am wrong on any of this please tell me so i can learn and not be so ignerent.

WIll

[Beezil]

co, the 44 has many pluses....

I like that the 44 offers:

less carrier flex
more housing beef
being able to run numerically higher gearsets
easy and affordavle true highsteer
hubs standard
bigger brake systems
axle tubes
sex appeal.

[FarmerMatt]

COXJ,
You're not wrong in the least & bring up very valid points. For the general wheeler the 30 is a decent axle. The trouble comes when you start to build them up. It will cost you as much or more to build up the 30 as it would to swap in & build a 44. At about the same price for the 2 the 44 also offers a stronger case, bigger ball joints, more options & cheaper high clearance steering, bigger brakes, & lockout hubs. Like I said before, all this can be had with building the 30, but the price becomes obscene while most of these options come with the old used 44 front-end. Now refurbishing that old front-end by replacing all the bearings & ball joints isn't cheap either, but if it were to cost about the same wouldn't the stronger assembly & bigger ball joints alone be worth the swap. Most people get caught with incrementalism. They spend money on gears & a locker in front. Now they want to go further into it so they start to think about lockout hubs, bigger brakes & high steer, but they've already spent the money on gears & locker for the 30 & don't want to plop down more money for the same items on a different axle so they continue to build the 30. In the end it is still a fare axle, but you need to ask yourself in the beginning which one you'd rather have in the end.

Matt

[Root Moose]

What Matt said - the only reason why I'm going D44 is that I have ARBs sitting on the shelf already and I don't want to pay "stupid money" for a free wheeling hub.

My debate HP vs LP.

I'll probably end up HP just because it is fairly easy to get a F250 axle and cut the tubes to Scout width and plug my Scout outers back on with the diff on the right side (swap inner axles side to side). Depending on how the diff placement works out I may use waggy inners to move things around a bit.

r@m

[bluexj89]

I am getting ready to run a 44 out of a 79 f-150. I an going to keep it full width and 5.13 gears. I also have the matching 9" rear spooled. I paid $100 for the Bronco the 9" came out of and 100 for the front RC44 and radius arms. I hope to have it done by mid Sept. Mark

[basalt51]

What about early bronce 44's? Did someone mention those and I missed it? Good years bad years, widths?

Thanks

[FarmerMatt]

http://www.naxja.org/html/techarticles/ebswap.html

Matt

[STRYKER]

Originally posted by Beezil
why would you have to re-tube?

Beez....your old website has long been gone, and I never saved the pic, and I'm not searching the internet archives to find it...
But somewhere there's a pic of you removing the Bronco axle tube... with a grinder... :D :D

The 1979 model DEFINITELY had the less desirable one piece axle tube with the radius arm mount actually cast in.

JnJ... Sorry, they are rare, but there are Jeep 44 front ends on Cherokee/Waggy full- sized Jeeps with 5 0n 5.5 lug pattern, I have laid my hands on one of these units in a wrecking yard. I do not have the model year, but it was most definitely a fullsized Cherokee.

[JnJ]

Originally posted by STRYKER

JnJ... Sorry, they are rare, but there are Jeep 44 front ends on Cherokee/Waggy full- sized Jeeps with 5 0n 5.5 lug pattern, I have laid my hands on one of these units in a wrecking yard. I do not have the model year, but it was most definitely a fullsized Cherokee.

Yes, You are sorry, :D J/K.
Ok, there are some early waggy axles (70s) that are 5 on 5.5, but I'm about positive that they are all passenger side drop. Since we're talking XJs, I really don't think they mattered unless the original poster stated a desire to swap the t-case also.

[STRYKER]

Originally posted by JnJ
Yes, You are sorry, :D J/K.
Ok, there are some early waggy axles (70s) that are 5 on 5.5, but I'm about positive that they are all passenger side drop. Since we're talking XJs, I really don't think they mattered unless the original poster stated a desire to swap the t-case also.


Point conceded....
It was most definitely a passenger side drop. Would be nice as a retube job... :confused: At any rate, I'd be curious to see the knuckle spindle pattern.... Perfect way to get high steering AND just use the existing hubs (probably the 6 stud spindle) to get 5 on 5.5 wheels on it w/o suffering thru the Ford hub and it's oddball 1/4" offset (the one that disables the "C" clip snap ring
on the lockouts.)

[LRRH]

Ok, there are some early waggy axles (70s) that are 5 on 5.5, but I'm about positive that they are all passenger side drop.

Yes....should be pre 74 axles that are 5 on 5.5, but they will all have drum brakes. 74 was the bubble year...so you MAY find a 74 with the right pattern and discs. 74 was also the first year of the Chero!

[STRYKER]

Originally posted by LRRH
Yes....should be pre 74 axles that are 5 on 5.5, but they will all have drum brakes. 74 was the bubble year...so you MAY find a 74 with the right pattern and discs. 74 was also the first year of the Chero!


DAMN! There goes the swap theory. Bronco Ford's had the same problem. 6 stud spindles....but all for drum brakes. :(

[Nik]

A waggy 44 is leafs right? Does Re make a front coil conversion with the control arm brackets? Weld up?

[JnJ]

Originally posted by Nik
A waggy 44 is leafs right? Does Re make a front coil conversion with the control arm brackets? Weld up?

Yes, yes and yes.

[Nik]

sweet dude thanks abunch, u are just up in castle rock right, Like to see your beast gettn mine back from predator tomarrow

[rockwerks]

I took a 76 ford f250 raduis arm truck and cuttoff the c brackets and narrowed it to fit waggy axles, so I got the HP 44 with 3/8" wall tube and uses waggy axles and brakes etc...wasnt too hard to do either...gotta just gear it and put it under the MJ

[magoo117]

I used a '78 F150 SuperCab axle.It is a hi pinion with leafspring pads and 5 on 5 1/2 pattern.It also has the very rare Ford F150 flat tops.

[Big Bear]

It is my understanding that most Dana 44 knuckles are pretty much interchangeable. If this is the the case. Why would you have to worry so much about bolt patterns? I see all types of 44 knuckles being sold on E-bay for cheap and disk brake set up as well. for that matter just visit your local junk yard, parts house, or dealership.

[STRYKER]

Originally posted by Big Bear
It is my understanding that most Dana 44 knuckles are pretty much interchangeable. If this is the the case. Why would you have to worry so much about bolt patterns? I see all types of 44 knuckles being sold on E-bay for cheap and disk brake set up as well. for that matter just visit your local junk yard, parts house, or dealership.

There are many knuckles, but spindle stud count (Not wheel stud count) is a defining attribute on most. I like my Ford hubs and rotors exactly where they are...1/4" in, so I can use the "C" clip indent on the outer shaft to secure my lock-outs. Everyone else who converts to Chevy spindles and knuckles ends up using a fender washer and a bolt in the end of the outer shaft because the Chevy spindles don't allow the clip to get anywhere near the groove . I'm a stickler for locking things the right way....but if it doesn't bother anyone else..go for it.

So much so, that I had the Ford knuckles machined, drilled and tapped for a high steer. It's not a chevy high steer arm pattern , but it's just a wee bit tighter. The arms are being custom made by a manufacturer of the regular high steers.

Super cab axles exist? C'mon, man... everybody know's that's a myth started by Ford. I WISH I could find one....

Scout pieces from the II units already have a high knuckle with tie rod already at the top....however they protrude some 8" from the front of the axle. :rolleyes:

[Static-XJ]

Why not a pre 78 HP44? The radius arm mount didn't become the hollow cast ones until 78, so they should come right off on the eariler ones. Just found a set of axles from a 77 F150 that I'm eyeing.

[rockwerks]

I've seen a few folks use the HP pumkin from the Ford, and retube it to waggy width. This allows use of waggy shafts instead of custom shafts and a High pinion pumkin instead of the waggy's LP pumkin.

You mean like this?...76 ford HP cut off c brackets and narrowed to fit waggy



http://fototime.com/{9640A0F0-5250-4F61-9CA5-13182112D2D4}/picture.JPG

[motorman]

All this talk about 44's versus dumping money in a 30 has got me thinkin.

I have the opportunity to buy a '76/'77 Bronco axel, disks etc. complete. Rare per FarmerMatt.

My only question is I currently have a XJ Dana 44 in the rear. If I wanted to keep that can I get 5 on 5.5 studded axels from a stock source? Or is there a source for 5 on 4.5 for the front? Or the third option is to go totally FarmerMatt style and get a 9", just don't know how readily available they are(the one that came with the front axel is gone so don't ask).

[CRASH]

Swapping the rear to 5 on 5.5 is easy, just call Dutchmann axles in Portland. They can hook you up with a set of axles, with new bearings pressed on for a shade over $300. They are about 40% stronger than stock (deeper induction hardening, different alloy)

BTW, my front 44 is from a 1972 F-100. I've cut it to Waggy width, and use Chevy outers, with Chevy/Waggy stubs and the C-clip fits just fine. The key is swapping the stub shafts along with the outers.

CRASH