Vet my build-up plans (warning - long)

Hey guys, newish guy here.

I've been lurking here and at nagca the last month or so trying to decide which platform to choose as my next daily driver and explore/recon machine. I think we (me and my wife) have settled on the XJ, 1997-1999 vintage.

So, it's time to decide how to build it to see what we are getting into compared to a ZJ.

Just to start, the intended use is all season, all weather capability, and very good (but not extreme) off-road capability. This truck will be used as my daily driver to work (~100mi hwy round trip) and be used to load the kids on continental excursions pulling a small, ruggedized tent trailer (~1000 lb - 1500 lb). I want the truck to be as low as possible (low COG) while fitting the largest functional tire possible. I'm leaning to 32x11.5 for a set of MTs and ATs - compromise size of sorts. Not too large a contact patch for hwy snow work, wide enough for in the mud. Good enough height. Small enough to not overly affect mpg. This thing is going to have the aerodynamics of a brick; every little bit helps.

So, I'll bullet point the rest to make it a little easier to read/assimilate:

Body/Armour:

- ARB front bumper
- AEV Blackfoot rear bumper with tire and can carrier
- Bushwacker flares (prefer look of these over the TJs - just my personal preference).
- Rocker rails (whatever works with the Bushwackers - Olympic? - or I'll bend/weld something up - have equipment but little time)

Suspension:

- RE 3.5" Super Ride
- Should I add adjustable trac bars? I've seen RE's bad mouthed - what are the issues?
- I want completely functional, safe, long distance runner and am willing to give up RTI points for that.
- Disconnects. Seen JKS bad mouthed (clunky/price). Was thinking of building my own. Resources or how-tos on the weeb?

Drivetrain:

- completely stock 4.0.
- AW4 with "the mods: TCC, 2nd hold, etc."
- NV242 (AWD for winter important to us).
- SYE. Does HD SYE exist for this case?
- CV rear shaft
- Maybe 4:1 when funds allow - thinking compression braking with the automatic, not crawl. Worth it for that?
- Scout D44 rear with ARB locker (shelfware from old project) and 4.56 gears
- Scout D44/Ford HP D44 custom axle housing for the front with ARB and 4.56. Combination of new (housing, gears) and shelfware (locker)

Tires/wheels

- 32x11.5 referenced above
- ARE-767 15x8 w/ 4" BS from old project (5x5.5 Scout pattern - see axles above).

"Foo-foo" stuff:

- overhead console (retrofit?)
- leather interior (was this available?). Find leather cleans up nice when it gets dirty/muddy. Buying used so this is "no cost option" at that point.
- Did these trucks ever have sun/moon roofs?

Wheel offset: I understand that the XJ/ZJ axle is 60" wide. Is this correct? That means my front axle needs to be this - or a combination of this and wheel backspace working out even. I believe the Scout front axle is 61.5" wide - so I may be close with the 61.5" and 4" BS wheels if I've been reading the posts correctly. (XJ 60" + 4.75BS). A little bit of extra width doesn't hurt if it clears the flares.

So, what do you guys think? What would you change keeping in mind the truck's intended use?

T!

r@m

Either the XJ or ZJ are capable little excursion vehicles, I have never even been in a ZJ, but they seem pretty cool and not a bad platform to build upon... The XJ has probably more aftermarket items available, and at a lower (?) price point...plus you have the vast and copious knowledge base found here on

Some XJ things to ponder...

Armor:
I'd add engine/tranny, transfer and fuel tank skid plates, plus diff cover armor and ORGS Super Nerfs. Personally I have no front bumper... but my undercarriage catches WAY more abuse than the front end does.

Suspension:
ORGS lift kit with adjustable TB. As low as you can go while fitting the tires will make for a more peaceful driver. I wouldn't fixate on a given # of lift inches, just mainly getting a well-balanced, comfortable, and reliable setup. OME is really good too if you can manage with lower lift height (or spacers/shackles to boost)

Drivetrain:
Agree with a stock 4.0 in good tune. If I needed to replace the exhaust , I'd go Borla or Banks with a hi-flow cat and new O2 (s?) also add an intake tube and high flowing filter at the same time.

Unclear if it is easy to do the tranny mods on a newer XJ... OTOH it's only wires & switches.

No HD SYE for the 242 to my knowledge. Tom Woods has a SYE/shaft kit though. Also no commercial 4:1 planetary set for this full-time mode case, but I 'heard' that Mark Hinkley converted his.

Klune V makes a couple of reduction units if extra-deep low range is absolutely neccesary (and more practical than a single low ratio...you can go stock low, Klune low, or stock plus Klune for super-deep (almost 11:1 with 4:1 K box) reduction. The drawback is 6" approx shorter rear d/s & longer fronf d/s (so what you gain with a SYE is lost out back)

Compression braking with the AW4 in 'convertor locked' mode (any range or gear) is good. Wiring it up manually in a newer XJ is unclear to me.

Axle choices are sound, as is the gear ratio for your chosen tire diameter (especially if you own the 4.56:1 now) Alloy shafts and 5-760x to increase the bulletproofness, and don't scrimp on reinforcing the control arm and track bar brackets. 4 wheel discs can help add safety and control to the rig. Steering at lower lift heights is easier to dial in(?)

Tires:
I don't get the 32" thing :dunno: If funds allow, I'd slap a set of 33x10.5 ATs or AWTs on alloys for street and winter use and a set of 33x12.5 MTs on those 767s for trail use. The 4" offset on the 8"? 767s will hang out there pretty far. Bushwhackers may tuck them???

Convenience:
If leather is mandatory, look for a Limited model. Best bet for finding the OH console is in one of these. These also have most all of the 'toys' and finding a newer XJ with a 242 (if mandatory t case) pretty much pegs ya to a Limited or Classic model, but IIRC leather/power seats was Limited to the Limited. LOL . My 88 Limited has a sunroof (non leaking ) unclear how long afterwards they were available on the XJ.

Since you are swapping axles, the most "valuable for resale" XJ suspension would be off a newer XJ with a high-pinion 30 front. All the ones in your range should have a 29 spl 8.25 rear, but the front 30 went to low pinion (TJ) style in 99 or 00.


I think that sums it up IMHO... Have fun and welcome to

woody said:

Personally I have no front bumper... but my undercarriage catches WAY more abuse than the front end does.

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Around here some form of front armour is mandatory if you want to keep your grille, lights, etc. (trees and bushes)

Unclear if it is easy to do the tranny mods on a newer XJ... OTOH it's only wires & switches.

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Ok, I'll need to look into that then.

No HD SYE for the 242 to my knowledge. Tom Woods has a SYE/shaft kit though. Also no commercial 4:1 planetary set for this full-time mode case, but I 'heard' that Mark Hinkley converted his.

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Hmm, thought I saw it somewhere. May have confused the NV241.

Compression braking with the AW4 in 'convertor locked' mode (any range or gear) is good. Wiring it up manually in a newer XJ is unclear to me.

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I'll try it then and go from there. All of my wheeling rigs in the past have been stick so the auto thing is new to me.

I'm not interested in the Klune. Bang for the buck is not there (IMO). Be more inclined to roll my own NP203 reduction box before shelling out for the Klune. That being said, probably more effort than it is worth for this truck and the way I plan to use it.

Axle choices are sound, as is the gear ratio for your chosen tire diameter (especially if you own the 4.56:1 now) Alloy shafts and 5-760x to increase the bulletproofness, and don't scrimp on reinforcing the control arm and track bar brackets. 4 wheel discs can help add safety and control to the rig. Steering at lower lift heights is easier to dial in(?)

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Yes, was thinking rear disks - bonus being that it will make the rear axle almost the same width as a stock XJ axle. Stock Scout rear is ~58" WMS-WMS.

Tires:
I don't get the 32" thing :dunno: If funds allow, I'd slap a set of 33x10.5 ATs or AWTs on alloys for street and winter use and a set of 33x12.5 MTs on those 767s for trail use. The 4" offset on the 8"? 767s will hang out there pretty far. Bushwhackers may tuck them???

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I'm not adverse to 33x12.5 but my understanding is that I need to jack the truck up to 6"+ to get full usage of them (i.e. no rubbing). If you know better please enlighten.

I'm ok with going 33" and 4.5" if that works.

If leather is mandatory, look for a Limited model. Best bet for finding the OH console is in one of these. These also have most all of the 'toys' and finding a newer XJ with a 242 (if mandatory t case) pretty much pegs ya to a Limited or Classic model, but IIRC leather/power seats was Limited to the Limited. LOL .

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Ok, thanks for the heads up on the limited trim level. Seems every classic out there is silver. Silver is ok, was just hoping for green. (foo-foo).

I think that sums it up IMHO... Have fun and welcome to [/B]

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Thanks for the input. Much appreciated!

r@m

If you get the Bushwhacker flares plan on either losing them regular or use a 3.5 backspaced wheel to try to protect them.
When I say lose, them I mean rubbing the bank or catching them on rocks.
I have a set w/4.75 backspaced wheels and lose the flares pretty
regular. But I wheel pretty hard and am not concerned w/ body damage to much.I am in the process of changing wheels so maybe I can prevent from losing the flares anymore.

wheel spacers work well to get the same width.
I use 1" spacers on my 8.8 to get the same width as the front.
Also skids, rock rails, good tow points and/or a winch.

I know what you mean. I have a '97 with 5" lift, TJ flares (bushwhackers not available 4 years ago) front HP 44, rear D60, and 33x10.5 BFG ATs. I run 33x12.5 TSLs off road. It also has an NP 242.
Armour: I agree. Get T-case and gas tank skids at least. Tranny and oil pan aren't a bad idea. When you're this low every inch helps and you may want to just replace the rockers with tube of some sort especially if you can weld. It takes time, but do one side at a time and do it when you can.

Suspension: I say stick with the 3.5". You may even be able to get away with the stock trac bar but I doubt it. There are several aftermarket suppliers who make different designs. I had no problems with my RE trac bar except heims wearing out quickly.

Drivetrain: I agree entirely with the 242. There is no HD SYE for it, but with mostly highway use, the motor, gears and tires you are running, I don't think you will need it. Not only Tom Woods makes an SYE. I have an MIT SYE and unlike many Tom Woods kits, mine has yet to leak. (knock on wood) I don't know the phone number and I don't think they have a website but they have ads in the back of most of the magazines. Somebody makes a 4:1 kit. I can't remember who because I really don't care, but somebody does make one.
I would also suggest either sticking with the stock D 30 or going with a custom D44. The problem is positioning of the pinion and front driveshaft. Most guys here with custom fronts are lifted at least 6-8". At that level you can use anything you want. Without all that lift things get really tight. Driveshaft hits the exhaust pipe, brackets hit the oil pan etc. There is no other D44 that puts the pumkin in the right place. I had a D44 built to match the dimensions of my D30. It required custom length shafts to work as there were no stock length shafts made to the length needed. If you really won't go bigger than 32s you will likely be happier with the stock D30.
Get the JKS Quicker discos. I don't know who bad mouthed them but I have a set and they work fine. Haven't seen a better design.

Tires: I say stick with the 32's. The problem is that with 3.5" lift you will be seriously limiting up-travel, even with major cutting. The '97-01 models have a wiper fluid tank in the driver side fender. There is not a lot of space to relocate it. You will need bump stops. In the rear I just had a piece of bar stock welded to the retaining plate on top of the springs. Perfect for cut fenders and the 33x10.5s
My .02
mattk

mattk said:

Armour: I agree. Get T-case and gas tank skids at least. Tranny and oil pan aren't a bad idea. When you're this low every inch helps and you may want to just replace the rockers with tube of some sort especially if you can weld. It takes time, but do one side at a time and do it when you can.

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The rockers will probably have to be done with square/round tube eventually - I'm in the salt belt. <sigh>

Suspension: I say stick with the 3.5". You may even be able to get away with the stock trac bar but I doubt it. There are several aftermarket suppliers who make different designs. I had no problems with my RE trac bar except heims wearing out quickly.

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I'm not a fan of heims on any suspension components due to NVH (my mech eng background showing through?). Heims in this environment (i.e. real winter with lots of road slop) are high maintenance and I can deal with the loss of articulation (debatable) that regular busings or TREs will provide.

Which manufacturers make non-heim based trac-bar? I'm starting to think this may be one of those things that I may build myself.

Drivetrain: I agree entirely with the 242. There is no HD SYE for it, but with mostly highway use, the motor, gears and tires you are running, I don't think you will need it. Not only Tom Woods makes an SYE. I have an MIT SYE and unlike many Tom Woods kits, mine has yet to leak. (knock on wood) I don't know the phone number and I don't think they have a website but they have ads in the back of most of the magazines. Somebody makes a 4:1 kit. I can't remember who because I really don't care, but somebody does make one.

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On the 4:1 I want to say Mepco or M.O.R.E. Haven't had a chance to go look yet. It's not an absolute requirement for me to be happy with the build so haven't been researching it that hard (yet).

I would also suggest either sticking with the stock D 30 or going with a custom D44. The problem is positioning of the pinion and front driveshaft. Most guys here with custom fronts are lifted at least 6-8". At that level you can use anything you want. Without all that lift things get really tight. Driveshaft hits the exhaust pipe, brackets hit the oil pan etc. There is no other D44 that puts the pumkin in the right place. I had a D44 built to match the dimensions of my D30. It required custom length shafts to work as there were no stock length shafts made to the length needed. If you really won't go bigger than 32s you will likely be happier with the stock D30.

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Interesting points!

What I had in mind was using the Scout inner axles and pluggin them into a `70s Ford F250 HP center section. Then keeping the outers/knuckle all Scout since at 3.5" I won't need to go high steer (hopefully). I'll have to refer to the map of D44 inner shafts to see if I can come up with something close.

Fwiw, and maybe you can pick these points apart, the only reason I wanted to go with the D44 front was to get a cheaper way to get free-wheeling hubs (MPG concerns). With my style of wheeling (light foot w/ auto) and relatively small tires I'm not going to stress about the center section flex in a D30.

I know that the D30 shaft kits and such come up for sale cheap every once in a while but I like the idea of running commonly available shafts - easier to replace in the field - just visit a junk yard.

I don't like the way the Warn free wheel kit requires the disk rotor to be machined every time you replace it. That is a PITA to me that I'd rather avoid. Sure, it's cheap to get done but still a trip to the machine shop. I do like that it converts to 5x5.5 bolt pattern though (can use my AREs, no cash to outlay)

Tires: I say stick with the 32's. The problem is that with 3.5" lift you will be seriously limiting up-travel, even with major cutting. The '97-01 models have a wiper fluid tank in the driver side fender. There is not a lot of space to relocate it. You will need bump stops. In the rear I just had a piece of bar stock welded to the retaining plate on top of the springs. Perfect for cut fenders and the 33x10.5s

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Interesting. I was looking at how to get second battery in the engine bay - not a lot of room indeed! Then add the washer fluid bottle - yikes!

So, will a ~4.5" lift give me more room/flex and avoid the wiper bottle?

How much lift do I need to match a SOA rear axle? 5"?

Hmm, this is starting to get taller than I want.

My .02

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Much appreciated! Thanks!

The 4:1 for the 242 is made by Tera mfg. and you will need to contact them to get specifics or you can go through Elias. http://www.elias4wdcenter.com/Qstore/p000070.htm
The limited in that year range will be your best bet to find a moonroof there is not much of an overhead consle with it though. For a non heim track bar there is RE's hd, currie, orgs,JKS, and probably a few others I am forgetting.

Spooky said:

The 4:1 for the 242 is made by Tera mfg. and you will need to contact them to get specifics or you can go through Elias. http://www.elias4wdcenter.com/Qstore/p000070.htm
The limited in that year range will be your best bet to find a moonroof there is not much of an overhead consle with it though. For a non heim track bar there is RE's hd, currie, orgs,JKS, and probably a few others I am forgetting.

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Cool! Thanks.

So the overhead console and moonroof are not mutually exclusive? Is there a "short" overhead console for the moonroof equiped trucks?

1997 was the only year for the "Country", right? This maps to a Limited roughly? I very rarely see them mentioned - wonder if they are a CDN spec thing only (have 1997 brochure in front of me).

Thanks!

I looked at a 98 limited with a moon roof before I bought my 99. All I remember about the console with the moon roof was the trip computer and a short section of overhead console in front of it. Not much to it.

Spooky said:

I looked at a 98 limited with a moon roof before I bought my 99. All I remember about the console with the moon roof was the trip computer and a short section of overhead console in front of it. Not much to it.

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What is missing compared to the "long" console?

Just curious.

r@m