?? XJ Towing maximum trailer loads??

Okay, I know the book says the XJ will tow 5000 LBS with a load equlaizing hitch and a trailer brake controller, but will it really work, or will the trailer toss the little car around?

My other tow vehicle is a full size Ford Club Wagon (Van) with all the toys, and it tows the "porta-party" trailer with no problem. The trailer does have a load equalizing attachment, and trailer brakes.

The trailer's gross weight is 5600 LBS, its empty weight is 3900 LBS.

I have four XJ's, and all have the towing package, but only two have class 3 hitches. they don't have brake controllers yet, and before I spend the $250 samoleans the trailer guys want to install one, I thought I would ask you all whether it's worth the money to upgrade.

Will the XJ really pull 5000 LBS safely?

Anyone know how to determine if the whole rig will be legal? (does it go by actual weight or gross weight?)

thanks,
crawldaddy

Well, commonly you dont want to haul more than you weigh w/o trailer breaks.

Personally, I'd figure that's a little over an XJ's capability. Go by gross weight to figure out safety/legality, run the trailer over the scales AS YOU CUSTOMARILY TAKE IT OUT to be sure. But generally, figure max gross weight. The chances of an RV getting pulled over to scale will be pretty slim, unless you're involved in an accident. All bets are off then.

$250 to install a controller? It is a little more involved than on the newer Big3 pickups. Nothing you shouldn't be able to handle at home, though. If you do buy a controller, get a Tekonsha Prodigy. Yes, I know they're a little pricey, but for electronic pendulum controllers, it's the best one out there, hands down.

One more thing.... XJ brakes are marginal to begin with. XJs should *NOT* tow anything over a ton or so without trailer brakes.

In my opinion,

Yes, you should have and use your trailer brakes. Not just because the Vehicle code says so in 26302(b) [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26302.htm], but think of it this way. If the Jeep brakes and the trailer is heavier, it's either going to push you or work it's way to one side or the other. To answer how do you determine... the Vehicle Code also makes reference to total stopping distance in 26454(b)(3), [http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc26454.htm]. And, if you are going to use the XJ for 5,600 lbs, drive in fluid and gradual motion.

Though it's not my profession, I studied substantive law and some case law before I received my degree in CA.

One more point to think about. In today's world, an unfortunate event can easily turn into an insurance nightmare and sometimes a court case. It's all about who to blame and where the money is going to come from, right? Let's just imagine you are driving home with whatever in your trailer. The Jeep is pulling well, lot's of power, nice smooth road, everything is great. You're even doing the speed limit so you won't have to start cleaning out the garage anytime soon for your wife when you get home. You know she's going to want you to throw out those old parts you were saving in the junk box.



Then...



Out of nowhere, a cute little three year old girl in a blue dress with a pink bow in her blond hair runs out in front of you from the other side of a big XJ with an 11 inch lift and 42 inch tires! H@LY $HIT! You hit the brakes as hard as you can and can't stop in time and...

Think the lawyers will have fun with that, or what?

Spend the $250 for the controller. We spend more than that in tires, bumpers, winches, lockers, etc. The chances you might need the full potential of the trailer brakes might be slim, but if you do, you'll be glad you had them.

But, that's just my opinion.

can I ask why you dont stick with the other rig? why tow with the Jp? you would be a lot safer with it.

XJ Samo said:

can I ask why you dont stick with the other rig? why tow with the Jp? you would be a lot safer with it.

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I was kind of wondering this myself.

I plan on towing a trailer with my tractor on it (about 4200lbs total weight) occationally. Ive already decided that a tamdem axle trailer with brakes on both axles and a top notch controller are a must. I bought a DrawTite (Intellastop?) controller. Its exactly the same as the Teconsha Prodigy but I found it a few bucks cheaper. Installation isnt that hard. The actual install of the controller and wiring took me about 2 hours and I wired mine so that I have both the round 7 and flat 4 plugs. I did some other things at the same time like skids and bead blasting and repainting my hitch, that took a couple days all together. If you are even the slightest bit mechanical, dont pay anyone to install it, especially if it means getting a cheaper controller. I think I payed less than $89 including shipping off Ebay. Thats means you are paying someone about $160 to install it. That seems like alot to me.

i pulled 3500 lbs last weekend with no trailor brake. Just keep it real with the speed. once i made it to 80 and started to fish tail a little. plenty of power to pull it, XJs just dont weigh enough to carry a heavy load. I wouldnt pull 5000 with or with out a trailer brake. pulled my hitch yesterday to get my ground clearance back.

crawldaddy said:

The trailer's gross weight is 5600 LBS, its empty weight is 3900 LBS.

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Only 1700 LBS? Thats not very much for a 3900 LBS trailer. You could carry that in a 4x8 utility trailer. You shure you got your figures right? Even so I still dont think I would want to pull anything over 2/3k even with a brake controler. IMHO they're just not made heavy enough to do it. The only two reasons I can think of that you would want to use you XJ over the one ton van is gas milage, and the 4x4. As for the gas I think you find in the end you won't save much for the simple fact that you be working the motor so hard just to keep up with traffic.

I have pulled 5-6k several times and I would recommend against it but... it all depends on the distance,roads and trailer.
I consistantly haul an 6x12 tandem axle dump trailer (2500 lbs empty) and never think twice about it. I only use this "in town", never go much farther than 40-50 miles from the house. Just have to watch what goes in it.
14-15mpg

I have also towed a 24ft car hauler with several store displays in it and I never do that again. Felt like I was going to roll & die everytime a semi passed by. I had the misfortune of dragging that for 2500 miles (in 4 days). I don't know how the place rented the trailer to me, they just did.
10.5 mpg

My XJ is "properly" setup for towing though.
Trans cooler, oil cooler w/fan, Class III hitch, weight distribution setup, brake controler, rear discs & a 4.6 Stroker.

Just some info from my personal experience

Okay, good! We're closing-in on the answer. Thanks for all the info so far! I hope this tread helps others in the future.

Let me review:
(1) I was not asking whether I should get a trailer brake controller in order to be safe/legal, only whether or not the XJ will actually tow 5000 LBS safely if I spend the money.

(2) I was asking how to determine whether or not the rig will be legal. Because I already have a load equalizing hitch, if I add the brake controller, and if I run with empty fresh/gray/black water tanks (oh, I mentioned it is a trailer, but not that it is a travel trailer), then if I am assured that the rig is under 5000 LBS, will it be legal, or does the 5600 LBS gross weight on the trailer make it simply illegal, or is there more to it (like how many people and how much crap is in the tow vehicle)...what's the rule? Anybody know where to find-out?

And now to answer other questions raised... the Ford van is only a half-ton, not a one ton, but it's so much heavier than the XJ that it easily pulls the travel trailer (but it does need the load equalizer and trailer brakes). Even with the truck full of people and camping food, it's a no-brainer. Sadly, the E150 now has 176,000 miles on it, and its tranny is a bit tired. In fact, the whole rig is so tired that I would like to get rid of it and change to using the 2000 XJ (50,000 miles) as the tow vehicle - forever. My wife disagrees, and wants to keep her school bus even though only one of the five kids is still in school. We only drive it about once a month....too much $$ for insurance...all that stuff....it's a losing proposition.

Thanks AJPulley for the links. I read them (removed trailing ] from link). It's exactly the scenerio you mention that makes me want to be compliant.

NateP1, your input is quite helpful. Can you provide more info on the car hauler? Was it a slab-side, enclosed trailer? Any idea how much weight? At 2500 miles, would that would include mountains? How was it on hills (up and down)? There is an anti-fishtail device that can be added to the hitch. Would that have resolved the problem with the semi's?

Again, thanks to all who have and will contribute to this thread.

To answer your first question, is 5000lbs safe to tow. Not to sound like a smart ass but its not safe for some people to drive much less tow 5000lbs. Thats a tough one to answer because everybodies idea of "safe" is different and I may consider it "safe" for one person in a certain situation but not for another person in a different situation. Thats really something "YOU" must decide for yourself. My personal feeling, for me, is that I wouldnt do it on a regular basis even with the proper outfitting, as a one time deal, I probably would though.
Question two. In the manual, My XJ is rated to tow 5000 with load leveling and towing package. It also says not to exceed the axle weight rating, I dont know what that is off hand but it says in the door. It also recommends trailer brakes for any trailer over 1000lbs (thats only a recommendation). If you stay within these perameters, you should be legal as far as the vehicle and trailer go. Next you need to consider your state laws. Some states require trailer brakes over a certain weight. I dont know what CA requires. Next to consider is your drivers license. I did some research on this not long ago and found that CA has different noncommercial license classes based on vehicle gross weight.
So if you arent exceeding the towing weight limits in the manual and you meet the brake requirements for your state and are properly licensed, you would be legal.

crawldaddy said:

Can you provide more info on the car hauler? Was it a slab-side, enclosed trailer?

Click to expand...

Identical to the one shown (not sure if that is a 24 ft pictured)
http://www.hollandtrailer.com/daily rental.htm

crawldaddy said:

Any idea how much weight? At 2500 miles, would that would include mountains? How was it on hills (up and down)? There is an anti-fishtail device that can be added to the hitch. Would that have resolved the problem with the semi's?

Click to expand...

I believe the trailer was either 2400 or 2600 lbs, can't remember exact amount and I had probably 3k in it at it's most loaded point.

I did all my driving in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois & Wisconson so I really didn't run into any decent sized hills. When it was loaded, I would have to give a bit extra on the larger inclines. Downhill wasn't too bad, I just went light on the gas.
I was very suprised on the handling & painless travel through stop and go Chicago rush hour traffic both loaded & unloaded.

I would have loved to try an anti sway bar, I think it may have helped.
Only thing I wish I would have done differently was to have been using load assist airbags verus my load assist overload springs. Since then I have purchased the airbags and they 1000x better than the springs.

Ray H said:

To answer your first question, is 5000lbs safe to tow. .... My personal feeling, for me, is that I wouldnt do it on a regular basis even with the proper outfitting, as a one time deal, I probably would though.

Click to expand...

The "safe" I'm asking about is the dynamic mechanical performance. Does a 5000 LB trailer have such a mechanical advantage over a short wheelbase 3000 LB car that even a skilled driver would have his hands full? My conclusion is that it may be marginal, but it's worth a try. I have ruled-out using any of the XJs that don't have ABS because of the lousy brakes on the older cars.

Ray H said:

Question two. .... I did some research on this not long ago and found that CA has different noncommercial license classes based on vehicle gross weight.

Click to expand...

I was sure this was wrong, but it's true. I was blown away.

natep1 said:

Identical to the one shown (not sure if that is a 24 ft pictured)
http://www.hollandtrailer.com/daily rental.htm


I believe the trailer was either 2400 or 2600 lbs, can't remember exact amount and I had probably 3k in it at it's most loaded point.

I did all my driving in Michigan, Indiana, Illinois & Wisconson so I really didn't run into any decent sized hills. When it was loaded, I would have to give a bit extra on the larger inclines. Downhill wasn't too bad, I just went light on the gas.
I was very suprised on the handling & painless travel through stop and go Chicago rush hour traffic both loaded & unloaded.

I would have loved to try an anti sway bar, I think it may have helped.
Only thing I wish I would have done differently was to have been using load assist airbags verus my load assist overload springs. Since then I have purchased the airbags and they 1000x better than the springs.

Click to expand...

The Ford van has the overload spring / airbag combination, and it was the wrong solution. After the big 4000 mile trip last year, we bought this rickshaw type thing, and it KICKS ASS...and because it's not installed on the car, it goes to any tow vehicle (with a class 3 hitch)...so I will use this on the XJ. The rickshaw bars try to pick the tail of the car up and do a great job of getting the tail sag under control.

When I bought the spring / airbag thing, the guy tried to sell me on this type of hitch, but I wouldn't listen because my dad had the airbags, so that was the religion I belonged to. It wasn't my decision to buy this hitch either. We co-own the travel trailer with my wife's brother and their family. He bought the hitch because he changes trucks faster than underwear...and he charged me half the cost! That forced me to try it.

Now that I have tried it, I love it. I fully encourage the use of this type of hitch, and can assure you that it is much better than any of the suspension / spring mods I have tried.

http://www.reese-hitches.com/heavy_duty_round_bar_wd.htm
(*not sure ours is a reese, but the picture is right)

Back to the subject... I appreciate your comments and the additional info on your towing advanture. You could have been loaded-up a bit higher than I will be, and the fact that you managed well has prompted me to schedule the installation of the brake controller tomorrow. I'm going to give it a try, and I will post the results here.

crawldaddy said:

The "safe" I'm asking about is the dynamic mechanical performance. Does a 5000 LB trailer have such a mechanical advantage over a short wheelbase 3000 LB car that even a skilled driver would have his hands full? My conclusion is that it may be marginal, but it's worth a try.

Click to expand...

There are way too many variables to say definatively yes or no.

crawldaddy said:

I was sure this was wrong, but it's true. I was blown away.

Click to expand...

Its true, state laws vary a surprising amount when it comes to their noncommercial drivers licenses. Fortunitely commercial licenses are now federally regulated so its relatively easy to determine if you are legal if you have a CDL.

I have only skimmed through this wandering thread, but has anyone checked with the original poster to make sure he's running an automatic, and not a stick?
Auto - max tow is 5,000 pounds
Stick - max to is 2,000 pounds

He hasnt said how his Jeep is equipt. This is one reason why Ive intentionally left my answers open ended and only used examples based on myself. There are too many variables for which I dont have the answers to determine if its safe for him or anyone else.

crawldaddy said:

Now that I have tried it, I love it. I fully encourage the use of this type of hitch, and can assure you that it is much better than any of the suspension / spring mods I have tried.

http://www.reese-hitches.com/heavy_duty_round_bar_wd.htm
(*not sure ours is a reese, but the picture is right)

Click to expand...

x2.
Love mine and wouldn't trade it for anything

See about having a quick connect plug installed on the controllers wiring harness so you can swap it between vehicles. I put a flat 4 trailer on mine.
Cheaper than 2 more controllers.

My DrawTite Intellastop(Tekonsha Prodigy) comes with a quick disconnect plug and mount. To switch it to other vehicles all you need is another wiring harness. The good thing about that controller is that it automatically adjusts for its attitude (mounting angle) so you dont have to do that everytime you mount it.