Replace 6" leaf pack, what brand?

[XJoachim]

I'm going to replace my Rustys 6" leaf pack in the rear with something else.

Any recommendations?

I don't want to loose height, if the new leafs give more lift it is very welcome :D :D

[Ted Z]

If you want good springs, Call Alcan in colorado. IMHO the only way to go

[juicexj24]

Rubicon Express 4.5" Extreme Duty Leafs.

Lift 6.25". Don't sag. I run them now with 33" Swampers. That combo is over 2.5 years old. I recommend them.

[CRASH]

National. 11 thin leaves, excellent load carrying, excellent ride, excellent articulation, very, very durable.

Expensive too. $600 a pair. You will find no finer spring.

CRASH

[calvin andrus]

my vote goes for alcans, I bought an 8inch leaf through bigoffroad.com. they sell alcans that are set up for cherokees with like a 350lb overload built into them so they are designed to work with some gear in the back of your cherokee. I've had mine for a few months and they work good, and don''t sag at all. thanks
-calvin

[Cresso]

I'll probably catch flak for this, but I recommend looking into Tomken. I'm running their 6" rear springs and really like them. Lotsa flex, no sag yet that I've noticed and they didn't break the bank.

I've read a lot of old reports that said Tomken springs tend to sag, but I believe they redesigned it since those complaints.

Also, as a pleasant surprise, I've had nothing but great service experience whenever I've called them.

[CajunCherokee]

I've had nothing but good experiences with Tomken's leafs. I've never owned their coils however, so I couldn't vouch on them. But their leafs are awesome.

[Erik]

While it seems strange that I would agree with Andy, I'd have to say go to ORGs http://www.offroadgs.com/
and buy the Nationals. I've run Tomken (won't even comment), RE 6leaf packs (not bad ride, but they did start to sag on me). I've had the National packs for over 2 years now with no sign of sagging and a great ride with or without gear. Somehow they've managed to get great flex without the axle wrap.

As for the queston "Who is John Gale", I couldn't tell you. You can go to check out The John Gale Society" homepage at http://www.globalfreedom.com but I couldn't find any useful information there. Seems like they're just selling seminars. Just someone else trying to seperate me from my money. I guess I just don't trust any group that incorporated in the Cayman islands.

[XJoachim]

Hmmm, one vote for RE, 2 for Alcan and 2 for National. The Alcan springs are custom builrt or bought from bigoffroad (8" leafs) and i would like to know if anyone else runs them and wht the long term experience is with these leaf spring. Do they hold up well, what about flex, do they sag and what height do they net?

Thanks

Joachim

[CRASH]

Well, first off, Oregon Boy, it's John GALT. You must have gone to government schools all your life, they don't let you read Ayn Rand at those institutions:



Who is John Galt?


So asks Ayn Rand in her novel, Atlas Shrugged, published in 1957. It is the first line of her panoramic vista of over 1,000 pages that follows the exploits of "giants" as they come to understand the vision and the mission of this man named John Galt, " . . . who said that he would stop the motor of the world - and did."

In 1991, the Library of Congress of the United States and the Book of the Month Club announced that Atlas Shrugged was the most influential book ever published in America - after the Bible. In 1998, a documentary film titled, "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life," was nominated for an Academy Award as best documentary film of the year. Such have been the accolades given to this novelist philosopher and the principles she wrote about over fifty years ago. As such, these principles are worthy of personal consideration and emulation in our lives.

The philosophies of Ms. Rand are interwoven throughout the narrative of her book. The major thesis in most of her works is that we live in a "benevolent universe" and the "happiness is the lot of man, not pain." And this work, Atlas Shrugged, in essence, presents:
…The concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

This concept is also expressed in the statement: "Man is that he might have joy." It is also proclaimed in the lines attributed to John Locke, as written by Thomas Jefferson in America's Declaration of Independence, "...that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

[XJZ]

I would highly recommend the ORGS/Nationals also.

As for the question "Who is John Glenn.....?"

[Paul S]

Another vote for Nationals via ORGS. I've got 6 years on mine & they're still as good as new. Did I just agree with Andy, I feel sick.
Paul

[Scott Mac.]

Originally posted by CRASH
Well, first off, Oregon Boy, it's John GALT. You must have gone to government schools all your life, they don't let you read Ayn Rand at those institutions:



Who is John Galt?


So asks Ayn Rand in her novel, Atlas Shrugged, published in 1957. It is the first line of her panoramic vista of over 1,000 pages that follows the exploits of "giants" as they come to understand the vision and the mission of this man named John Galt, " . . . who said that he would stop the motor of the world - and did."

In 1991, the Library of Congress of the United States and the Book of the Month Club announced that Atlas Shrugged was the most influential book ever published in America - after the Bible. In 1998, a documentary film titled, "Ayn Rand: A Sense of Life," was nominated for an Academy Award as best documentary film of the year. Such have been the accolades given to this novelist philosopher and the principles she wrote about over fifty years ago. As such, these principles are worthy of personal consideration and emulation in our lives.

The philosophies of Ms. Rand are interwoven throughout the narrative of her book. The major thesis in most of her works is that we live in a "benevolent universe" and the "happiness is the lot of man, not pain." And this work, Atlas Shrugged, in essence, presents:
…The concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

This concept is also expressed in the statement: "Man is that he might have joy." It is also proclaimed in the lines attributed to John Locke, as written by Thomas Jefferson in America's Declaration of Independence, "...that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

I'll bet you had that prewriten just waiting for somebody to ask you that question.

[atowley]

I am running alcan's 8 inch packs. They are holding up great, but they are stiff as can be. I don't know if their in need of getting broken in, but they sure are stiff. I've only been on two trail runs with them so far though. We'll see what they do after acouple more. If they don't soften up at all, then I'm going to go with nationals springs. Anybody have an idea on how to break these in? Or how long it will take?

[xjdaddy]

I am running 4.5 inch RE Leaves in the rear and they are great. Flex awesome and are at around 5.5 inches of actual lift with no sag whatsoever.

[Jason A-33]

I too agree with the ORGS National springs. 3 Years and stilll fantastic.

[Weasel]

If the spring are not shot peanded don't buy them, I don't care what Alcan says. All spring should be shot peaned, it's just stupid not to do so.

[SeanP]

As one of the bestest and hottest web wheelers, I vote for the Alcans thru Big Offroad. They were like $450 or so last year. WIth the RE drop shackle in the rear and the 6" BOR, I am sitting at about 8.5" with not much stuff in the rear. Liked the way they worked last year, haven't wheeled them much this year.

I had the RE1462. The drivers side sagged by a full 1.5" compared to the pass side. RE told me to go pound sand when I told them a 6 mo old spring shouldn't do this.

SeanP

[CRASH]

I think they sagged from sitting in your off-camber driveway for so long.........

CRASH

[XJoachim]

Thanks for all your comments, i have to decide between bigoffroad's 8" or the ORGS packs. No easy decision :anon:

[mattk]

XJZ, I'll bet someone lied to you. You can be sure that hummer was very used.

[Paul S]

Originally posted by XJoachim
Thanks for all your comments, i have to decide between bigoffroad's 8" or the ORGS packs. No easy decision :anon:
It shouldn't be that tough at all, as they are completely different springs. The ORGS National's give a relatively soft 5.5 - 6" lift, The BigOR Alcan's give a very firm (from what everyone says) 8" lift. Which one suits your needs?
Paul

[KarmirXJ]

my vote goes with Alcan...
I went through Alcan directly not BOR. my leafs are 8" lift at 500lb in the back. due to my tirecarrier/tire and gear.

Its a project im doing right now so I cant drive it. but I am running 37s and let me tell you I have not trimmed the rear fenders and boy do I have aloto room, I prolly can fit 40s with some trimming.


All in all they are very Heavy duty srings, each leaf is like 1/4 thick! unlike nationals got 6 full leafs total plus a 7th guess for reinforcement of some sort. If your going to be anal about shot pinned leafs call up alcan and see what he sais about them;) my vote goes with Alcan.



Btw. they are military wrapped.:D

[CRASH]

each leaf is like 1/4 thick!

You do realize that many thin leaves is MUCH better than a few thick leaves for load carrying and overall lifespan, don't you?

Nationals are also miltary wrapped.

CRASH

[XJguy]

Originally posted by XJoachim
I'm going to replace my Rustys 6" leaf pack in the rear with something else.

Any recommendations?

I don't want to loose height, if the new leafs give more lift it is very welcome :D :D

I take it Rusty's leaf pack sagged? I am about to purchase 8" leaves and am considering Rusty's. Bad choice?

XJguy

[FJH97XJ]

BIG OFF ROAD's. I Love them & they flex great!!!

[Ted Z]

BOR is Alcans.... i went direct also

[Weasel]

Originally posted by KarmirXJ
If your going to be anal about shot pinned leafs call up alcan and see what he sais about them;)

Not sure where he's getting his information but shop penning significantly reduces the stress in the springs giving a much longer life. All engineers know this, obiosuly he's not one. Why do you think all F1 racing coiuls, etc are shot peaned?

[XJZ]

Karmir said "Its a project im doing right now so I cant drive it. but I am running 37s and let me tell you I have not trimmed the rear fenders and boy do I have aloto
room, I prolly can fit 40s with some trimming."

So what your saying is that the springs have very LITTLE flex and can't stuff the tires. :)

Most the West Side boys say go ORGS/Nationals. Midwest and East say BOR/Alcans. Compare their terrain to yours (the best you can) and decide from there. Do you rock crawl, flat land (I'm in trouble now) or something in between? But even if you don't need the extreme flex the ORGS/Nationals provide, you'll still get the soft ride, so what is there to think about? :) I ran them back when I lived in MN and now in CA (polar opposites when it comes to terrain).

[mark91xjbeef]

i live down the street form national spring co. and have seen their shop. they do some high quality spring work. in a couple of months when i get the money i already talked to them about getting a pack made. it is six hundred for the pack but is well worth it. they make them to any weight you want so you can add weigh your jeep and add gear or whatever and maintain lift. since i go to the desert a lot i see all the prerunners using them and even a couple cherokees like mine. everyone says their great for jumping and taking bumps at high speed and a good highway ride. i do not know anyone with alcan leaves so i cannot give a fair opinion on those. it is really what you use your jeep for.

[KarmirXJ]

thnx for clearing the up for me CRASH I didnt know more thin leaves are better than few thick ones.

hey XJZ I dont know where your going with this.
How did you come up with
"So what your saying is that the springs have very LITTLE flex and can't stuff the tires."
from ....
Its a project im doing right now so I cant drive it. but I am running 37s and let me tell you I have not trimmed the rear fenders and boy do I have aloto room, I prolly can fit 40s with some trimming."

[XJguy]

I spoke to National and Alcan last week. National made sure to let me know that they use 10-12 leaves (which is what I wanted). Alcan on the other hand told me that while multi thin leaves are good perfomance wise, they do not, however, keep their shape long. Who to believe? :dunno: Ill say this much if Alcan is against shot peening then that does not say much for their knowledge in metal.

Here is a link to some leaf spring information, tapering, shot peening and other factors are covered : http://www.suspensionspecialists.com/techinfo_fs.html

XJguy

[Ted Z]

When i spoke with Alcan they were able to back up everything about their spring i questioned..... Why not to military wrap and also why not to shot peen... I don't remember the reasons but they seemed very knowledgeable. I have had my 6.5" alcans for about a year.... Flex awesome, Ride soft, Never sagged.

[XJZ]

Karmir:

My point was a 37" tire won't fit the rear tub, especially a non-trimmed one. So I was suggesting that perhaps there's no up travel with your springs.

But I meant it all facetiously, hence the cute little smiley face...... :) No worries mate!!

[Paul S]

Originally posted by XJguy
I spoke to National and Alcan last week. National made sure to let me know that they use 10-12 leaves (which is what I wanted). Alcan on the other hand told me that while multi thin leaves are good perfomance wise, they do not, however, keep their shape long. Who to believe? :dunno: Ill say this much if Alcan is against shot peening then that does not say much for their knowledge in metal.

Here is a link to some leaf spring information, tapering, shot peening and other factors are covered : http://www.suspensionspecialists.com/techinfo_fs.html

XJguy

11 thin leaves do keep their shape for long. Mine are 6 years old with very heavy trail use. I doubt that I will ever buy new rear springs for my XJ. 11 thin leaves also offer excellent flax & ride with no load (the way I run the hammers), & do not take a dump when carrying a load (the way I run the 'Con).
I do not recommend ordering custom Nationals. I have several friends that Have done this & none were happy with the results. There is a lot of trial & error in making a good spring for a specific vehicle. If you go Natianal, take advantage of the 10+ years that ORGS has been tweaking them.
Paul

[Erik]

Still National. Still don't know who John Doe is. Didn't read "Atlas Shrugged". Of course, I didn't read the Bible either. Got any porn?

[xxxj-va]

Are we saying National vs. Alcan's here? Many thin leaves/soft ride, great flex, shorter life vs. few leaves, stiff ride, less flex, longer life? Can we put some relative values on all these? How much of a stiffer ride, how much better flex? Who has run BOTH that can comment? For my .02 I would not use Rusty's leaf springs (non-STS) again.
P

[Craig Wood]

Well here is my 2 cents. I have had Nationals for 4.5 yrs (4.5") and have been very happy. I just order a new set for a 6" lift. There are some problems that you should know about regarding national spring. They just moved and they are farming out some of the mfg of the springs. As a result I heard of long delays in getting your springs (one person told me 2 months and counting). I just stopped by today and they said that I will get my springs by the end of next week (6 weeks). As they say we'll see. Just thought I would let you know. Hope this helps!

Craig

[Jump This]

Wasn't John Galt a reciever for the Raiders? :)

[Gary E]

I think xjs have rear spring sagging issues due to the spring wrap. I don't think $800 springs are needed just a traction bar and RE or Rustys springs. A traction bar is a good thing to have anyway.

[XJoachim]

I want to thank you all for your opinions, haven't decided on the leaf pack for now.

Reason is that i relly don't know what to do with the rear. If i stay with leaf packs i think i will go the expensive way and order some custom leaf packs from National.

But there are some other possibilities if i make it a trail-only rig:

long arms rear 4-link or triangulated 4-link and the choice of
- coils
- coilover
- 1/4 elliptic with 2 leafs
- 1/4 elliptic with 1 main leaf

This means i have to get a daily driver because it is impossible to pass german inspections with these mods :mad: