Trackbar limiting droop

Hello,

I have a 90 XJ with 9" lift, 35s, D30 front, ORGS over-axle-trackbar mount, frame trackbar drop bracket, high steer, custom shortened trackbar w/bushing ends. Problem is the front axle hangs several inches lower on driver side than passenger side when suspension is completely unweighted (as on jackstands). More accurately, the passenger side doesn't drop as low as it should. The "missing" passenger side droop can be gotten if the trackbar is disconnected. The axle is centered when the jeep is on the wheels. With the front axle all the way drooped (trackbar disconnected) the trackbar appears to be about 2" too short. This is within the adjustability of the trackbar, and I could just make the trackbar longer, but wonder about what happens then, during suspension compression. Will the trackbar be too long when its flatter, suspension stuffed, and overload the frame mount? Any advice appreciated. Thanks.

Blair

9'' of lift? :wierd:
There is no way you need that much lift. You should be able to fit 37s on that. Trim and lower it some more. Just my opinion, mind you.

As for the drop, is there anything holding it up? how much is it dropping down? To some extent, that is normal. Do you have a pic to show us? What do you mean by custom shortened trackbar?

Sorry, don't have a digital camera. If it becomes essential, may be able to borrow one.

The jeep has a 8" skyjacker coil with a 2" spacer plus the rubber isolater. Rear custom pack with 1" blocks and long shackles. Looks level. Real lift height? no idea, so guessing 9". fenders are trimmed as much as I dare, don't want to trim beyond the pinch welds where inner and outer panels come together in the rear. Bumpstopped to the top of the spring pack in the back, ORGS bumpstop extensions up front. And it rubs a just little bit when fully compressed. Been set up that way for at least 7 years and everything works just fine--except the uneven droop of the front axle, which I noticed when I had it up on a lift recently for some other routine service.

The trackbar is a cut down ORGS WJ-spec unit. Cut to fit after moving the axle mount end up to the location--more or less--of the old steering stabilizer bracket. Having done that, the trackbar was too long. The modification--nothing serious, really--was done by a decent shop in southern cal. The cut down trackbar is properly threaded and fully adjustable, etc etc. I suspect the system has too much travel to not encounter trackbar binding because there is always that point where the control arms fight the necessary lateral axle movement but the raised trackbar-axle mount was supposed to help that...

Thanks
Blair

With all that custom equipment you cant figure out a fricken trackbar :lecture:

dude a little off topic here but I just put around 10"-11" lift on my xj and I've been having a problem with my stock steering setup. Where the draglink and tierod connect well thats hitting my swaybar mount and it was hitting my stabalizer shock mount too, but i hacked that off already. just curious what did you do on yours?

sictruck said:

dude a little off topic here but I just put around 10"-11" lift on my xj and I've been having a problem with my stock steering setup. Where the draglink and tierod connect well thats hitting my swaybar mount and it was hitting my stabalizer shock mount too, but i hacked that off already. just curious what did you do on yours?

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11" on stock steering?
:yikes

Jeezus, what's up with these huge lifts???? That's an accident waiting to happen - especially with any stock parts still being used.... stock steering at 10" of lift!!!! That has got to be a scary ride.

Anyway, I agree that you guys need to lose some lift to safely run at those heights. The only way to run safely at those heights is to construct a custom lift - from fabbing experience so that steering geometry and suspension travel are the major considerations - not overall height. My $.02 anyways.

Shortbus, since you've already put an OAB on, the only way to continue to get level axle droop is to lower the top track bar mount. I'm at 8" of lift and the OAB was a god-send improvement to my driveability not to mention improving flex tremendously. You've already hinted that you understand that the track bar moves in an arc as it travels up and down. With 9" of lift, at static ride height, your track bar is already toward the bottom of it's travel arc. Lifted XJ's push the axle to the pass. side on compression, and pull the axle to the driver's side on droop. The reason it won't droop down level is that the track bar is in a bind between the spring/gravitational forces moving down and the track bar wanting to keep the axle centered. Ya dig? If you want to get more droop, you're gonna hafta lower the frame mount for the track bar in order to keep the track bar in a more horizontal angle at static ride height - thus allowing more downward movement during droop.

Keeping a more horizontal angle with the steering linkage and trackbar also helps limit the amount of bump-steer. The guy with stock steering on that huge lift must have incredible bump-steer.

HTH,
Troy

what frame end bracket are u running? are your running a heim up there? if not go with a RE HD trackbar bracket or make your own. that will turn the heim from bolt going vertical to it going horizontal. which will give you some more droop. also make sure it isnt hitting the OAB when flexed.
DIG IT!

the closer to level the trackbar is at mid-travel the better to experience optimal axle travel in both directions.

YELLAHEEP said:

Jeezus, what's up with these huge lifts????


I'm at 8" of lift.
HTH,
Troy

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Pot meet Kettle.


I am going to guess that after 7 years, the springs etc are sagging and 9" may not be where your at. Your track bar sounds like a conundrum (sp). I think a better question is are you doing this for ride quality or do you really need 2" of more droop?

I put a drop bracket on my track bar and then rotated the mounting bolt horizontally with a Johnny joint. Works really well and there is no way now that I'll run out of droop vis-a-vis the trackbar.

Gentlemen,

The springs are brand new 8" SJs. Before that it was REs 7.5s w/spacers. Before that, before XJ stuff was readily available, they were custom wound. Its been the same setup for 7 years, not the same exact parts! He he.

Look, I have been running a lifted XJ since the days when that still elicited some comment on the trail due to its rarity. I am familiar with all the geometry and theory. The frame mount IS a drop bracket. The steering is a MORE setup. It drives straight, is very sound, I regularly put 800 mile weekends on it to go wheeling. The reason I ask the question about the trackbar is because it should work fine and the fact that it does not perplexes me. I suspect the problem is that the amount of available suspension travel exceeds the ability of the control arms to allow the axle to shift laterally as necessary throughout the suspension cycle. But, that was just a guess. So, figured I'd ask around here and see if anyone else had an opinion. I have never posted to this list before.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful advice from those who offered it.

Blair

Shortbus90 said:

Gentlemen,

The springs are brand new 8" SJs. Before that it was REs 7.5s w/spacers. Before that, before XJ stuff was readily available, they were custom wound. Its been the same setup for 7 years, not the same exact parts! He he.

Look, I have been running a lifted XJ since the days when that still elicited some comment on the trail due to its rarity. I am familiar with all the geometry and theory. The frame mount IS a drop bracket. The steering is a MORE setup. It drives straight, is very sound, I regularly put 800 mile weekends on it to go wheeling. The reason I ask the question about the trackbar is because it should work fine and the fact that it does not perplexes me. I suspect the problem is that the amount of available suspension travel exceeds the ability of the control arms to allow the axle to shift laterally as necessary throughout the suspension cycle. But, that was just a guess. So, figured I'd ask around here and see if anyone else had an opinion. I have never posted to this list before.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful advice from those who offered it.

Blair

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Who's drop bracket? Your first post says bushing ends, does that really mean rubber bushings at both ends? Last I checked the ORGS bar used a heim at one end and a bushing at the other. Does that sound like yours? I'm not familiar with the MORE steering so I can't comment.

Since you had it on a lift for routine maintenance can you put it back on the lift and recreate the problem and look for bind?

Sounds to me (and others who have replied) that you are still mounting the frame joint in a vertical manner instead of horizontally. If this is the case you are maxing out the available travel of the heim.

Simple solution - buy the RE HD trac-bar mount and orient the heim horizontally.

HTH

Rusty's drop trackbar bracket. Mounts the bushing horizontally. ORGS trackbar, now JKS, I believe you are right that a JJ is available now. Mine is probably 3 yrs old and came with a rubber bushing. Or it came with a JJ and I changed it out for a bushing. Although, seriously doubt I would have done that. At any rate, its rubber bushings at both ends.

MORE steering is at www.mountainoffroad.com listed in the "catalog" under "steering correction kit". I got a pre-production kit out of Allen over there. Works very well, don't know why he doesn't have them for sale. Its been in "preproduction" for years.

Anyway, yeah, I can recreate the bind, I want to eliminate it. I don't think its trackbar bushings binding. More like the length of the trackbar isn't right. The pass side of the axle won't droop all the way until I pull the frame mount trackbar bolt. As soon as I do that the trackbar moves 2" towards the passenger side and the axle drops. So, the trackbar is too short? Yet, the axle IS centered when the jeep is on the wheels. Lengthening the trackbar results in the axle being noticeably off center. Maybe thats just life and I live with it? <shrug> Like I said, I am kinda perplexed.

Blair

What control arms are you running?

Tomken 6" w/ RE drop brackets. Bushings. Beginning to wonder if they don't twist enough.

I doubt it's the control arms. If it were it would not be specific to one side.

It has to be trac-bar or steering.

Are the trac bar and drag link nearly parallel?

It really would be helpful if you could post a pic.

Shortbus90 said:

Tomken 6" w/ RE drop brackets. Bushings. Beginning to wonder if they don't twist enough.

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that was the direction I was headed. As your axle drops, the track bar completes its arc and starts to pull the axle toward the drivers side. I would imagine it would start to pull horizontally against the control arms which move vertically. There wouldnt be the same amount of tension on the driverside, so it would be able to drop more. but i would think the drop brackets would help.. $.02