comparing '89 to '00/'01

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

Thinking of replacing my aging '89 with an '00/'01. What am I going to loose, mechanically speaking? Are there anything mechanical with '00+ years that are considered weak or expensive to mod; for example, T/C, suspension. axles, adding lockers, lifting, wheel wells, etc. I know the H.O engine will have a few extra ponies, the auto tranny should be the same. I would love the open cooling system. The plan would be for a modest 2-3" lift, tires, and maybe a locker in the back. Only mild to moderate wheeling, mostly dirt roads to back country.

Are there any www place that has some technical specs (axles, etc.) for these years?

TIA ... Maz

Yucca-Man · Apr 22, 2005

You're going to lose the vac-disconnect hi-pinion D30 in favor of a low-pinion D30 with stronger axleshafts.

You'll lose the D35 (or not) - if you get ABS you'll have another D35 but without ABS you'll get the 29-spline C8.25"

Metal rear hatch instead of the fiberglass one, and you pick up a nigh-mounted center stoplight in the process.

The e-brake cables are routed along the driver's side framerail, and the fuel filter is in the tank.

Effectively, you're looking at a vehicle a good 11 years newer...

Littlewhitexj · Apr 22, 2005

newer tail housing on the transfer case is more prone to vibes.
LP 30 front on newer XJs (99 and up????)
29 spline 8.25 if it dosent have ABS, D35 if it does
01' will be distributerless
all will have the AW4, or ax15, trannys
I believe that the wheel wells are a little smaller on the 97+ XJs
open cooling system as mentioned

i cant come up with anything else, but im a little drunk so someone else will chime in with the rest.

Bent · Apr 22, 2005

One Item stands out right off the bat. My '01 has the low pinion D30 up front. As with all of them, avoid the D35 rear that comes with the ABS. Some will tell you that they prefer the OBD1 of the earlier years to the OBD2 for the late model. It hasn't affected my world as of yet so I don't have an oppinion. I do like the AW4 auto trans ( ( with the exception of not being able to shift for 1rst gear only) and the fuel injection. If you like to pick up goodies at the bone yard, things are a little bit harder to come by.

Tim

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
and the fuel filter is in the tank.

QUOTE]

I have a habit of changing fuel filters often. Is this a special filter that doesn't need changing often? If not would I have to drop the gas tank for every fuel filter change? If so, that must be a major PITA.

Thanks ... Maz

Yucca-Man · Apr 22, 2005

On the '96 Severe-Duty maintenance schedule, the fuel filter is expected to be replaced every 60,000 miles. Unless you're racking up some serious miles, don't worry too much about that one; figure probably 3-4 years average.

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

Bent said:
As with all of them, avoid the D35 rear that comes with the ABS.
Tim

Ok, so I should look for non-ABS brakes, which probably means the bare bone model. Cool! I prefer not to have ABS.

So, If not D35 (which I think is what I have in my '89), then what is it? I have been away from XJ world for a couple of years, so I fotgot alot. I Seem to remember Crysler 8 something. How is that for taking a locker and a bit of larger than stock tires?

I know, I know. I can do search and re-learn. Thanks a bunch for the quick refresher.

Yucca-Man · Apr 22, 2005

Maz said:
So, If not D35 (which I think is what I have in my '89), then what is it? I have been away from XJ world for a couple of years, so I fotgot alot. I Seem to remember Crysler 8 something. How is that for taking a locker and a bit of larger than stock tires?

Chrysler 8.25" - it's not limited to only the barebones models either. Limitations include being limited to 4.56 as the deepest gears, but it's a strong axle and that's a good combo for up to 33" tires anyway.

5-90 · Apr 22, 2005

Chrysler 8.25 - refers to the 8.25" ring gear in that model of corporate axle.

If you don't mind my asking - what are you going to do with the 89? I'd not mind another RENIX... (what's wrong with it?)

You do get the advantage of more available mods, since CARB approval is in effect for more parts for OBD than RENIX...

I'm not a huge fan of third brake lights - I just couldn't care either way.

If the later fuel tanks are like the earlier ones, the access will be in the centre upper front of the tank, and you can get into it without pulling the tank out (just be below a half-tank - MAXIMUM!)

I'm still working on my Parts Interchange Guide, so don't expect a lot out of me just yet...

5-90

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

Yucca-Man said:
Chrysler 8.25" - it's not limited to only the barebones models either. Limitations include being limited to 4.56 as the deepest gears, but it's a strong axle and that's a good combo for up to 33" tires anyway.

Cool. Sounds like the non-ABS, Chrysler 8.25, would be an improvement over my '89. I wouldn't want to go beyond 4.56, anyway. Most likely 4.1 for a 31, or there abouts.

Thanks a bunch for your quick replies, Yucca-Man. Please let me know of anything else that I should look for in an '00/'01.

I am basically trying to decide if it's worth it to spend money on my '89 or the money is better spend on a newer XJ. Mine has 280K miles, no smoke, passes smog, but it's beginning to show her age. I don't feel comfortable taking her wheeling, now that I am ready to get back into it. '00/'01 XJ's can be had for around 8K-11K in my area.

Cheers ... Maz

Bent · Apr 22, 2005

:dunno: I can tell you that the 00/01's dent easy.

Yucca-Man · Apr 22, 2005

Bent said:
:dunno: I can tell you that the 00/01's dent easy.

I'm guessing just about as easily as most 84-01 XJs.

5-90, I know the 3d brakelight isn't really that much of a selling point; I was just pulling what I could outta my head to form a semi-coherent answer.

Boris T · Apr 22, 2005

Maz said:
Ok, so I should look for non-ABS brakes, which probably means the bare bone model. Cool! I prefer not to have ABS.

Well, not really a base model. My nicely equipt 98 Classic has NO ABS.... it does have the factory installed tow package (8.25" 29 spline, tranny cooler and wiring installed). None of the 97-99 XJ's I drove last spring had ABS.

That being said....I think a nice Sport or Classic would be easy to find.

Travis

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

5-90 said:
If you don't mind my asking - what are you going to do with the 89? I'd not mind another RENIX... (what's wrong with it?)
5-90

Thanks for the gas tank tip.

I'll be selling her. There is nothing wrong with my '89. I'm the original owner and have taken good care of her. She is probably considered in a very good shape for her age, at least according to shops I go to. Very little off-roading. Many newer parts on her, almost complete new cooling system, tires, headliner.

The RENIX is one reason I'm thinking selling. Last I checked with dealer (2-3 years ago), The price of a new RENIX was outrageous.

Maz · Apr 22, 2005

Bent said:
Some will tell you that they prefer the OBD1 of the earlier years to the OBD2 for the late model.
Tim

OK, I hear about RENIX brain vs OBDII twice now. What are the pros and cons? What does each camp think? Personally, I'd rather deal with older carbed engines, give up a few ponies, and be able to find problems without the need for scanners and a degree in computers

Cheers ... Maz

nosajwp · Apr 22, 2005

Exhaust manifold was changed to a cast design in '00 or '01, which solves the cracking problem. It also flows about as well as any header out there. The intake manifold was upgraded with equal length runners for a little more power. Interior is pretty nice. Transfer case tailshaft does create the possibility for more driveline vibes, but a SYE from Tom Woods is cheaper for the late models, because you don't have to replace the output shaft cone.

XJXJ · Apr 22, 2005

Maz said:
OK, I hear about RENIX brain vs OBDII twice now. What are the pros and cons? What does each camp think? Personally, I'd rather deal with older carbed engines, give up a few ponies, and be able to find problems without the need for scanners and a degree in computers

Cheers ... Maz

It's mostly to do with the diagnostic "language" between the old Renix and newer OBDII. You realize OBD stand for "on board diagnostic", right? Renix doesn't have a check engine light, there's little to be found about operation routines and the like. However, it's a very compensating system. Give it more air (stroker) and larger injectors and it can take advantage of those things without re-mapping computer. For people with electronics know-how, it's a good system to work with and most situations can be dealt with using a DVM. But, very few repair shops have the required diagnostic equipment to deal with it so hiring service work is getting rare.

OBDII requires a standard scanner that can be bought for little money and/or connected at an auto parts store to retrieve codes and such. Most modern shops have that equipment too.

FYI - My '89 doesn't have have vacuum disconnect front axle. At 260k miles it still runs/performs like a daily driver should but I'm a competent electronics tech and it's never been towed or taken to a shop for repair since I bought it from the original owner with 83k miles. Passes CA SMOG everytime and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it cross-country tomorrow.

Lawn Cher' · Apr 22, 2005

Littlewhitexj said:
all will have the AW4, or ax15, trannys

SPOBI In '99 or thereabouts they replaced the AX15 with the NV3550 5-speed.

Also, noone mentioned that the '97 and newer models have a much nicer interior. However, the fender flares pop off much more readily than the old style. The wiring system was supposedly improved with the redesign, as is the structural rigidity.

Runnin'OnEmpty · Apr 22, 2005

OK, I hear about RENIX brain vs OBDII twice now. What are the pros and cons? What does each camp think?

I too have an 89 Renix Cherokee, and there are several things about it I don't like. For one, it takes 4 crank revolutions for the engine to fire (due to the CPS and CMP relationship). The Renix ECU/TCU also pulls a constant 14mA battery drain with the key off. This is not a problem if the Jeep is driven everyday, but if it sits for a couple weeks, it'll weaken the battery.

The Renix system uses the older type O2 sensor, which is more expensive. There's no provision to tell you when it's failed (the O2 'timer' is worthless). I drove mine with a failed O2 for a year without knowing it. Finally noticed the sooty exhaust, and tested the O2, which was bad. A check engine light would have told me this immediately.

That's about it. The Renix is one of the first FI systems, and archaic. On the other hand, it seems to be fairly reliable. Lots of XJ owners like it. Given a choice, I'd prefer the later model Chrysler system though......

XJXJ · Apr 22, 2005

Runnin'OnEmpty said:
I too have an 89 Renix Cherokee, and there are several things about it I don't like. For one, it takes 4 crank revolutions for the engine to fire (due to the CPS and CMP relationship). The Renix ECU/TCU also pulls a constant 14mA battery drain with the key off. This is not a problem if the Jeep is driven everyday, but if it sits for a couple weeks, it'll weaken the battery.

The Renix system uses the older type O2 sensor, which is more expensive. There's no provision to tell you when it's failed (the O2 'timer' is worthless). I drove mine with a failed O2 for a year without knowing it. Finally noticed the sooty exhaust, and tested the O2, which was bad. A check engine light would have told me this immediately.

That's about it. The Renix is one of the first FI systems, and archaic. On the other hand, it seems to be fairly reliable. Lots of XJ owners like it. Given a choice, I'd prefer the later model Chrysler system though......

Yeah, but those long cranking times do establish oil pressure before combustion pressure commences. I think that's a good thing for the engine rod/main bearings.

Just watch fuel mileage and you'll usually know when the 02 sensor needs attention. I wouldn't call Renix "reliable" but once you've been around the system a while it's not hard to diagnose.

comparing '89 to '00/'01

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