transmition flush question for experts!

i just got my tranny flushed and transfer case fluid changed at the dealer.
my owner manual says transfercase is ATF-4 and tranny is Dextron II or
III/mercon

the dealer put ATF-4 in both the tranny and transfer case.

is this ok.?
i questioned this and they said they were the same fluid used in both.

what do you guys think.

everything seems to be running fine?

I just got done with a dilema like this. ATF3/4 is not the same as Dexron/Mercon.
My 4.0L says dexron in the tranny the 2.5L takes ATF. I read on here that it will f'up your gear if you run ATF when youre supposed to be running dexron. Dealers just slop the ATF in there because they carry it in huge 55 gallon drums. It would be too expensive for them to carry dexron as well, since 99% of chrysler trannys use ATF. The AW4 tranny is not a Chrysler tranny, and DOES NOT use ATF, it uses Dexron.

My dealer put ATF in my tranny as well. I went back and asked them what they used, and sure enough it was ATF. They insisted it was correct. Sometimes they arent always right. I bought 4 quarts of DexIII and had them do the job again with my fluid instead, they did it free of charge.

For me it was worth it. Just the peace of mind was well worth it. If the manual says DexIII, put DexIII.

phew!

dakotus said:

I bought 4 quarts of DexIII and had them do the job again with my fluid instead, they did it free of charge.

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You know that's not enough for a full change, right?

Chrysler dealers are lazy about the tranny; they think that since Daimler-Chrysler produced it, that it must be a Chrysler tranny. They're wrong; the AW-4 behind all 4.0L XJs is an Aisin-Warner tranny based off a Toyota slushbox...

Is there any way you could do a flush yourself?

if you have a transmission cooler (stock) unplug the input line to the cooler, put that line in a bucket or jar, start the jeep, fluid should pour into the bucket. stop the jeep when 2-3 quarts are in the bucket. add new fluid (same amount that you collected) thru the dipstick. repeat the process until the coolant is clean (red). i do this once a year with dexron III (chevron brand)-costco sells them for a reasonable price

jxj said:

if you have a transmission cooler (stock) unplug the input line to the cooler, put that line in a bucket or jar, start the jeep, fluid should pour into the bucket. stop the jeep when 2-3 quarts are in the bucket. add new fluid (same amount that you collected) thru the dipstick. repeat the process until the coolant is clean (red). i do this once a year with dexron III (chevron brand)-costco sells them for a reasonable price

Click to expand...

Wich one is the input?

bottom of the radiator I believe

robz95xj said:

Wich one is the input?

Click to expand...

The pressure line is the forward line on the tranny; return comes into the rear of the tranny

oh yea i know, actually I initially asked them to do a flush. They apparantly dont have the machine, and I found that out after they did the drain/refill. But 4 quarts I think is the ammount that comes out of the drain pan.

Idealy, I would love to flush the whole mother out, and fill er up with MaxLife DexronIII. But flushing and filling with off the shelf fluid is impossible right?

when it was time to change the fluid in my 01 for the first time i decided to do it myself, when to the dealer, asked what they recommend and of course the told me ATF 3. emptied the pan, refilled with ATF 3 (3-4 quarts) and that was it. after a few months driving and learning from this forum and Jeepforum, ATF 3 was the wrong fluid. flushed it out myself and added the dexron III (chevron brand). been flushing it out every year since with dexron III. no problems ever with the AW-4. so to answer your question, probably not harmful to the transmission if only for a short while. i haven't had any problems-few months with mix of ATF 3 and whatever came from the factory (I hope it was dexron III). later

TBCherokee said:

i just got my tranny flushed and transfer case fluid changed at the dealer.
everything seems to be running fine?

Click to expand...

You need Dexron III.
Dealers seem to be confused about this because the XJ dosent use a DC tranny (as previously posted). It's scary when you go in and you know more about it than the service manager.

I'd change it out ASAP.

jxj said:

if you have a transmission cooler (stock) unplug the input line to the cooler, put that line in a bucket or jar, start the jeep, fluid should pour into the bucket. stop the jeep when 2-3 quarts are in the bucket. add new fluid (same amount that you collected) thru the dipstick. repeat the process until the coolant is clean (red). i do this once a year with dexron III (chevron brand)-costco sells them for a reasonable price

Click to expand...

Please clarify...why the input line to the cooler? It seems that the new fluid you just put in will get flushed out the next time you start the jeep. The return line makes more sense but I have never done a flush before that's why I ask.

The input line to the cooler was the easiest to undo (turn the screw and remove hose from metal line). Everywhere else in the line have the "quick disconnect" connection that is not that quick or easy. Eventually the fluid in the trans (not the pan) gets pumped out and run thru the lines. You could just dump the pan every week and refil it as well. Later.

This is an interesting topic and I feel a little embarrassed to say this but my '01 AW-4 had ATF+3 in it for 50,000 miles before I finally realized it was supposed to take Dexron III. I've owned the Jeep since new and the dealer had flushed the trans fluid and refilled with ATF+3 a couple of months after purchase for a suspected trans warranty problem (turned out to be something else). Anyway, I'm now at 60,000 miles and the AW-4 is still performing perfectly. I will say it shifts much smoother with the DexIII than it did previously. And I don't think any damage has occurred as the pan is still very clean inside and the fluid is contaminent free and a nice dark red color, and always has been. So the ATF+3 must not be THAT bad for it, but it'll get the DexIII from now on.

My 1993 has had ATF +3 in it for about 5 years and works great...well other than my daughter not maintining the oil level in the motor and blowing it! Why? Cause it's what I had at the time.

Sarge

TBCherokee said:

i just got my tranny flushed and transfer case fluid changed at the dealer.
my owner manual says transfercase is ATF-4 and tranny is Dextron II or
III/mercon

the dealer put ATF-4 in both the tranny and transfer case.

Click to expand...

Wow, which year do you have? I don't understand why on earth there would be a requirement for +4 in the xfer case, although it certainly shouldn't hurt anything.

(sigh) DCX has made a huge mess with ATF+4, their dealerships, and their documentation. They've confused the crap out of everyone, and all for the sake of a few extra $$$, I think. Here's why:

Look up DC service bulletin 2100601 (you can find the text at wjjeeps.com). It supersedes older bulletins no longer listed. Effectively, the older bulletins said that sometime around October 1998, all new Chrysler vehicles with Chrysler transmissions, with the exception of certain minivans, were being factory filled with ATF+4 fluid (which was great stuff, would clean your windows, wind your watch, etc.), and were no longer filled with ATF+3/7176 fluid. Note that it didn't specifically say anything about the fact that 4.0L Jeep XJs DID NOT have a Chrysler transmission...

It claimed that from that point forward, all +2 and +3 compatible transmissions should be serviced with +4 fluid. It also says that topping off an ATF+4 filled transmission with +3 is a Bad Idea, and that once a transmission was filled with +4, then it should never go back to +3 fluid due to an incompatibility between them (but a +4 topoff is OK????).

How the heck a service technician can tell if a transmission has, or has ever run +4, is beyond me. To make matters worse, owners manuals for, and dipsticks in, a lot of these (Chrysler-produced) transmissions were still stamped "use only ATF+3/type 7176" well into 2000, and maybe beyond. So, a lot of transmissions got screwed up, understandably, and lots of people got really ticked off. Chrysler, already suffering a bad reputation for the Utradrive/41TE, developed a worse rap for bad transmissions. Why? Because in trying to "improve" things, confused their dealers, and thus screwed up some perfectly good transmissions. Dealers then got really beat up by the factory, so they're afraid to use anything else but +4 now.

Why did they do this? ATF+4/9602 is said to be a superior fluid. Maybe so. I hear it's a synthetic base. But, note: DCX also trademarked "ATF+4" so that other companies couldn't market a fluid with this label. Some synthetics are said to be "ATF+4 compatible", but not on the front label because of this trademark. So they generate a little FUD that keeps owners going back to DCX for the fluid. This wouldn't be so bad, except that they were originally charging $70 PER GALLON for the stuff. This changes, last time I bought it, it was around $28/gallon, which still ain't cheap, but on par with good synthetics.

For what it's worth, ATF+3 is a petrol-based fluid, very similar in appearance and composition to Dexron, but has a totally different set of friction modifiers in it than Dexron, which is where the problems stem from. Valvoline makes an ATF+3 fluid, and others probably do too. To my knowledge, no one makes as ATF+4 fluid but DCX, for legal reasons. You can get Dexron anywhere, from nearly anyone.


OK, now, I hear you asking "What on earth does this have to do with my XJ?"...

* If you have a 2.5 with an automatic (poor souls), I don't honestly know. Do they exist?

* If you have a 4.0 with an automatic, this is a japanese built Aisin-Warner AW-4, which was designed with DexronII or III in mind. It is NOT a Chrysler-produced transmission, and this is where the dealers get *really* confused (and I don't think it's entirely their fault). It *must* use DexronII or III; it was designed with this friction package in mind.


If you have a ZJ:

* Only some 1993 models with the 4.0 had an AW4. It should use Dexron. All others used Chrysler transmissions (42RE?), and would have been factory filled with ATF+2 or +3. Whether someone may have user +4 and created a compatibility problem for you is anyone's guess.


If you have a WJ:

* If it was an early 1999 model, produced before October 1998 (only a few could be), then it would have been filled +3 from the factory, all others are +4. The dipstick/manual may say +3, don't pay any attention to it.

* If a dealer serviced the transmission, there's a good chance it may have been converted to +4 later. Of course, who would know?



Now, what about transfer cases?

As far as I know, both the New Process transfer cases used in the XJ (231 and 242) were designed with Dexron in mind, but since they don't have friction clutches in them like a transmission, they can also use ATF+3 or +4. I'm not sure later models actually have to.

For what it's worth, I run Dexron in our '94 XJ's 242, and it's quite happy. My 2000 Dakota has a NP231, and the book says use either Dexron or ATF+4 in it. I use +4 just out of convenience, no problems.

If you happen to have a WJ with an NV247 (e.g. Quadra-Drive), this is a very different animal; it's gerotor pump for the front uses a special fluid available only from DCX. This is the result of a service bulletin; it originally used Dexron, but the pumps started having problems over time, forcing the change.



Sorry if this got a little long. There is understandably a ton of confusion out there over fluid types, at DCX's own making. We had a WJ produced in September 98, which I once thought would require $300 fluid changes every 24K miles. This had me more than just a little PO'ed at the time, thus my research.

Good luck with your flush....

Well That about answers all of todays questions for me!!!!
A huge thanks!!!!