Steering Box Brace Question

The purpose of this post is because I want to prevent frame damage where the steering box mounts.

Is a MORE steering box brace un-neccesary when you have a reinforced bumper mounting system like the one found on the Rigidco bumpers?

If you wheel reasonably hard, with 33" and larger tires, so far the only thing that will keep the frame from cracking is the weld on SBS system from JKS, the bolt on C-ROK reinforcing plates, or to completely box the frame yourself. The bumper system you refer to looks pretty good, and may get the job done. I really like the front crossmember brace......very good idea. I welded in L braces where the stock crossmember attaches to the frame and welded in a tube to reinforce the crossmember......that stock thing is pitiful. The frame might need a piece on the back of the frame, which come with the SBS system and can also come with the C-ROK plate. Only time will tell if the Rigid system is enough, but it is a good improvement.

There is evidence, and opinions, that just using a steering box brace actually leads to frame cracking, rather than preventing it.

I didn't know that about the steering brace, very intersting.

Should I use the C-Rok inner plate instead of the MORE steering box brace? Would that be a good solution?

I have both installed on mine. I have the C-ROK inner and outer plates along with the MORE brace. Greg (C-ROK) showed me how to use the outer plate with my C4x4 bumper, and it works awesome.
I also installed these BEFORE I got any cracks. Good job for thinking ahead. :wave:

OK for those who have pulled their bolt heads through, I want to know exactly what the circumstances were. I ask because I just got back from Isabella in Reiter and you really have to wheel that hard to make it up open on 35's.

BillR said:

I have both installed on mine. I have the C-ROK inner and outer plates along with the MORE brace. Greg (C-ROK) showed me how to use the outer plate with my C4x4 bumper, and it works awesome.
I also installed these BEFORE I got any cracks. Good job for thinking ahead. :wave:

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Same here only I'm running Rusty's steering box brace (only one available at the time I got it long, long ago...).

It isn't so much that you pull the bolts through but you get cracks on the inside of the rail, or at least that is what I have seen. It if was just pulling the bolts through you could use big washers to spread out the load. The braces just spread the forces out over a larger area and hopefully by doing that, the forces don't get to the point of flexing the frame enough to cause work hardening of the metal and then fractures.

If you want to reduce frame damage, don't use any type of cross over to the other side brace. These only put more stress on the area.

Use a frame brace. If it is not broken yet, the c-rok one works good for bolt on. If there are any cracks or pulled thru bolts use the SBS from jks.

The way that area fails is from cracks at first and then the inner sleeves which are spot welded together clam-shell style multi piece sleeves break apart and leave nothing holding the box to the frame but sheet metal. Then the bolts pull thru and the box falls off or almost falls off.

The best thing to do is catch it early and beef it up before you need to. Just pick which works best for your situation.

hinkley

Agree, i pulled all 3 bolts through the frame with a steering box brace on and i believe that the brace itself caused the initial crack during flex. The frame isn't that stable, it flexes and while flexing the brace rips off the steering box.

I reinforced the frame with 3/16 plate and dropped the brace and broke the sector shaft (output shaft) of the steering box right where it joins the pitman arm.

That was the day when i decided to go hydro assist

So, let me get this right...

You guys are saying DON'T use a plate kit like C-Roks WITH a steering box brace like Rusty's?

I have both, haven't installed them yet.

Should I lose the steering box brace?

Any other options for tightening up the steering for on-road feel? (Not that important, just thought I'd ask)

r@m

Mark Hinkley said:

If you want to reduce frame damage, don't use any type of cross over to the other side brace. These only put more stress on the area.

hinkley

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Not at all or only run it in conjunction with reinforcement plates (either CROK or OR...oh I mean JKS). :kissyou:

Root Moose said:

So, let me get this right...

You guys are saying DON'T use a plate kit like C-Roks WITH a steering box brace like Rusty's?

I have both, haven't installed them yet.

Should I lose the steering box brace?

Any other options for tightening up the steering for on-road feel? (Not that important, just thought I'd ask)

r@m

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I think once you have a C-ROK or SBS on, it's probably ok to use a cross frame brace.
I agree with Mark and would not recommend running a cross frame W/O either a C-ROK or SBS.

I can't speak for Mark, but I feel that once your frame is reinforced you're probably ok to run a cross frame brace, although it is not really necessary.

My personal opinion on the cross frame braces is that they are very effective at securing the sector shaft output on the steering box. The problem though, if your frame is un-reinforced, is that that then becomes a pivot point and effectively applies additional stress to the uppermost steering box bolt; which is the furthest away from the sector shaft.
That uppermost box bolt also has the weakest frame section surrounding it.

No surprise it is always the first point to fail.

karstic said:

Not at all or only run it in conjunction with reinforcement plates (either CROK or OR...oh I mean JKS). :kissyou:

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Not at all on any uniframe contruction, too much flex everyplace. (XJ type)


Now, if the whole thing is caged from front to back and has been beefed like a jeep speed rig, ie a whole tubed frame, use one it will work then because there isn't other flex going on.

hinkley

What's being said is that a stock Jeep flexes, so beef up around that flexing or eliminate the flexing altogether. A kit like C-Rok's or JKS SBS just beefs up the metal in one specific area and doesn't really affect body flex. A kit like Rusty's or More's stiffens up the front end, but the rest of the body continues to flex so over time it actually creates a failure. I run the C-ROK plates and a Rusty's kit but I'm going for stiffening the entire body approach and have sleeved about 80% of the frame rails too. When I'm done it'll have the sleeved frame rails, a roll cage, and box tube rockers all welded together.

Just a little confused here. Are the crossmember braces like the one for the Rigid bumpers good or bad?

C-rok makes perfect sence, I removed my Rusty's for that very reason, and was going to buy a C-Rok right now.

While your at it C-Rok, get Quadratec to lower their price, their more than your own website, silly Quadratec.

Todd

Mark Hinkley said:

Not at all on any uniframe contruction, too much flex everyplace. (XJ type)


Now, if the whole thing is caged from front to back and has been beefed like a jeep speed rig, ie a whole tubed frame, use one it will work then because there isn't other flex going on.

hinkley

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Ok I have Rusty's cross brace up there right now.I have a Rigid winch bumper on order, and already have both C-Roks inner and outter plates (not installed).No cracks yet in the uniframe.My plan was going to be Rigids bumper, C-Roks inner plate, and keep Rusty's brace.I've had several people including Dave Turner and Mike Barnett(the jeepspeed guys) say keep Rusty's brace after I install Rigids outter and C-Roks inner.I totally respect Marks advice as well (run almost everything he's designed) So now I'm just totally confused :confused1

There is no exact answer to this question. If you have a very good frame reinforcement, you could be OK to run a steering box brace, but you also probably don't need it. I don't know that we'll ever have enough info to prove that one way or the other. Everyone needs to make that determination themselves. A couple of things are clear.....you need frame strengthening around the steering box, inside and outside, and it's not a real good idea to run a steering box brace without good frame reinforcement.

My personal experience is that I've broken the steering box off the frame while running a brace, and the frame was reinforced both outside and inside at the time. I did mine myself because I did it before either the SBS or C-ROK where available, and because my frame cracked everywhere.....bottom, outside, inside, and across the top.......and I ran a brace. When the box broke off the frame two of the bolts sheared and one of the ears broke off the box, and the frame wasn't damaged. Mine broke because I hit a big rock hard while not paying attention, and it ruined a recently rebuilt box by Tommy Lee.

I also broke the track bar mount off one time, and I was also running a cross frame track bar mount brace. The point is that whether you run cross braces or not, nothing is as important as good frame strengthening.

What Mark is taking about is the steering brace and track bar mount brace, not a good front crossmember reinforcement like Rigidco provides. I like their front crossmember, since it strenghtens the frame. I have beefed my crossmember up myself........but I'm probably the king of cracks.

damn goatman how did you rip off your trackbar bracket? that scares me cause i have to run a drop bracket until i can get my new axle done...

small pederson said:

damn goatman how did you rip off your trackbar bracket? that scares me cause i have to run a drop bracket until i can get my new axle done...

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It started cracking and I didn't catch it......until I all of a sudden couldn't turn while going up Thompson Hill on the Dusy. I actually cracked the stock track bar mount right under where it hits the frame. It's due to many hard cycles and metal fatigue over time. Now the stock mount is boxed on the front and outside. I run the stock part with a horizontal mount both bolted and welded to the bottom, which I did because I think the stock part is stronger than any of the aftermarket ones, which I have also seen crack on the trail.

If you want to scare yourself a little, look down the frame rail from the front while you have someone turn your steering wheel back and forth, and see how much frame flex there is around the track bar mount. I mentioned earlier that my frame cracked on all four sides of the frame next to the steering box, it also cracked behind the track bar mount where the frame necks down, both inside and outside, and it cracked where the front crossmember attaches to the top of the frame rails on both driver and pass side.

BTW, the frame cracked on the top after it was already plated on the other three sides, though admittedly with thinner material than either the C-ROK or SBS. The point is that if you're going to wheel your rig regularly or intend to keep it for a long time, or just hate to break down, GET SOMETHING TO REINFORCE YOUR FRAME AROUND THE STEERING BOX SOON.