XJ/MJ weights and dieting

[BrettM]

I weighed my MJ today. When I weighed it I had no tools, spares, or people in it and it came to 3600 pounds. I was really thinking/hoping it was around 3200-3300. I'm guessing that with me in it and all the tools, spares, and camping stuff for a weekend on the Rubicon it would be about 4000.

Anyways, I want to get it as light as possible, so what do other people's XJs and MJs weigh? let's talk about some dieting tips.


-axles- I can't think of any reasonable way to loose weight off the axles. Waggy D44 front with crossover, a beefy tie-rod, ARB, hydro-assist. Toyota rear (pretty light).

-tires/wheels- 35" MTRs are what I have and are reasonably light, and not worth changing in my mind for anything lighter. I have 15x10 steel wheels, I plan on getting 15x8s (mostly for reasons other than weight) but aluminums would be too expensive, especially since I would need spacers. Besides, good aluminum wheels weigh almost as much as steelies.

-suspension- I got leafs all around, I don't think there is much to lose there.

-drivetrain- 4.0/AW4/231, again not much to loose without some sort of engine swap. I have an AC compressor, but none of the extra AC stuff, since I have it just for OBA, I'm not willing to give up OBA to save 30-40 pounds

-battery- I have an Optima yellow-top that is relocated low and to the back. this is good for weight distribution, but I doubt it would be worth it to get a lighter battery.

-sheet-metal- Doors is an easy one, I take them off in the summer and probably save 100 pounds there. I already ditched the bed and lost about 120 pounds. I have a bunch of Lexan, and I was thinking of making new fenders and a hood with it. any guesses as to how much that would save?

-protection/skids- my bumpers and skids are probably as minimal as I would want to go.

-interior- I gutted the flooring and have it bedlinered, that probably saved a few pounds. The seats aren't too heavy, but maybe something out of a civic (or similar) would be lighter (and more comfy :) ). anyone know how much the whole dash assembly weighs?

-tools- this is a big one for me, I really debate on whether I should just carry the basic tools or carry everything just in case. what is everyone's strategy here? how do you find the balance?

-spares- I don't carry any spare shafts or steering. That was a specific goal in my axle swap. I do carry a spare rear driveshaft, since mine is fairly vulnerable with the 115" wheelbase. I carry a 33" spare tire, hopefully I'll be getting a 33x9.50 soon and put it on an aluminum wheel.



what else am I not thinking of?

[MJ1990buildup]

glass is pretty heavy, i know on hemi darts they came with the option of plexiglass windows that saved weight

[cLAYH]

-tools and spare parts-

My tools and spare parts changes with the season and how far from home I am going. I have a couple of different tool boxes with different types of tools in them. When away from home I take tons of stuff but some of it stays in base camp with the truck/camper. Don't have all your stuff in one box then you can tailor what you take on the trial based on that particular trail.

[biscuitboy87]

^^
glass is heavier than sheet metal.
carpet and rubber weigh a bit.
i seem to remember you have those taken care of.
so, yeah, like he said.

[BrettM]

^^
glass is heavier than sheet metal.
carpet and rubber weigh a bit.
i seem to remember you have those taken care of.
so, yeah, like he said.
yeah, the interior flooring is gone, replaced with bedliner.

I forgot to mention glass, since I'm primarily interested in it's summer weight (doors off) the door glass doesn't matter. I need to keep the windsheild because this sees a lot of street time as well. I did think about replacing the rear window with Lexan, does anybody have a good guess as to what a rear window (XJ or MJ) weighs?

Tools-
If I had a tow rig I'm sure I would leave most of my tools in it, but I don't have that choice. I know what you guys mean as far as the tools being dependent on the trail and the distance from home. Do I bring just every wrench I could possibly need on my vehicle, or do I bring all the other stuff in case someone else needs it? that type of thing.

[MrShoeBoy]

For tools, I always bring what I need to repair my own vehicle. I keep spare parts at camp and any non essential tools not needed on the trail.

AARON

[Fred]

Just for reference, my stock 88 MJ with AC, stick, heavy duty rear bumper, me, stuff behind the seat, a spare,
and a full tank of gas weighed 3600 pounds at the sand and gravel place. I was a little surprised because the I seem to recall the factory claiming 3000 or maybe it was 3200. I'm about 200 of it.

Fred

[BrettM]

oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I had about 5 gallons in the tank.

so on yours, (I assume 4.0?)
3600
-200 (you)
-100 (gas)
-100 (spare and misc behind the seat)

that puts it at 3200. with my bed gone and interior reduced I've probably lost about 200 pounds, so 3000. Therefore my axles and tires weigh 600 pounds more than stock axles and tires, that seems a bit high to me. I wonder what I'm missing.

[explorer]

Regarding wheels, most cast aluminum wheels have no significant weight savings over steel, and no real difference in strength. Forged aluminum wheels however are much lighter (maybe 1/2) and also can be stronger than standard steel wheels. Not sure what bolt pattern(s) you have but a lot of the early/mid 90's ford 1/2 tons used a 5 on ? pattern forged wheel. You can normally tell by the finish, much smoother appearance w/ very little tooling marks as w/ cast wheels. These aren't going to save you huge weight, maybe 10-15 lbs a wheel. But it is rotating mass, and also unsprung weight. So power and susp. performance is improved.

[BrettM]

i'd like to use nice aluminum wheels, but I like my 2.5" backspacing, meaning I would need spacers with aluminum wheels. I guess there's a chance I could find some stock Chevy or Yota (6 on 5.5) 15x8s for cheap and get some spacers as well...

[Fred]

Yeah, 4.0.
I don't know how much significance I would give to the empty weight, at the sand and gravel place the only important number is the difference between full and empty. Could be off by a 100 pounds or so.

Fred

[Paul S]

3600 lbs is pretty good. Assuming you add a winch & cage you'll push it to 3800-3900, still not bad. Your doors are probably good for 150lbs.

If you're serious about losing weight & getting into the tougher trails that warrant it, I'd upgarde that front Waggy 44 to an HP30. Probably good for over 50lbs & you'll gain some much needed clearance too :wave:

Paul

[Dr. Dyno]

If you're serious about sending your Jeep to Weight Watchers, inflate the tires with helium. Air's too heavy. ;)

[XJZ]

Hesco now has an aluiminum head and block for the 4.0.

Something like 115 lbs. lighter.

[Pete M]

Seems like you may be obsessing a bit there Brett. If this is just part of the constant improvement-cycle, that's cool. We all do it. But why exactly is 3300 such a great weight? Maybe you just need some lower gears or a stroker 4.0 to help push that led zepplin of yours around? :D
By the way, my favorite idea for weight savings is dumping the hood and doors before hitting the trail. I'd be hesitant to permanently ditch the hood if you drive the streets a lot, but there's only a few bolts and I'm sure you could fab something lighter for shedding mud/water while on the trail.
Another biggie is switching to a 2.5L, but let's stick with the *sane* ideas. :D
Jeep on!
--Pete
ComancheClub.com

[XJZ]

Some more ideas (besides the Hesco Aluminum :) ) :

Synthetic winch line and alum. fairlead (vs. roller)...............25 lbs.
'Glass hood.............................................. ....................15 lbs.
Borla header (vs. stock manifold)......................................7 lbs.

[Big Red]

You've trimmed away and are pretty light with your hacked body now, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'd carry some spare axle and driveshafts and steering if you have them because those things can break. I know you are running 35's on a 44/8", but it can still happen especially with stock shafts.
Troy

[MontanaXJ]

When I swapped my 32's from my 15x8 AR Baja's to some 15x8 Soft 8 black steelies I was amazed how much heavier they seemed. I didn't weight them but the difference was significant. To bad alloys aren't practical for your application or you could definitly save some weight there.

[BIGWOODY]

3900lbs with no tools or even a spare tire. But a d60 and 9", steel beadlocks,38.5sx's(that weight a freakin ton) and after wheeling my leadsled XJ of 5500lbs I'm happy...your MJ's weight sounds good to me

[BrettM]

3600 lbs is pretty good. Assuming you add a winch & cage you'll push it to 3800-3900, still not bad. Your doors are probably good for 150lbs.

If you're serious about losing weight & getting into the tougher trails that warrant it, I'd upgarde that front Waggy 44 to an HP30. Probably good for over 50lbs & you'll gain some much needed clearance too :wave:

Paul
how much does yours weigh Paul? I know you've been pretty weight focused...

The D44 will have to stay, it's geared, ARBed, steering done, hydro-assist, etc. The only real consideration I had with the front axle was to put a Toy center-section in with my D44 outers (D44 shafts work in Toy side-gears). It's still a thought I'm kicking around to save probably 40 pounds, better clearance, swapable thirds with the rear, ability to run 5.29s... but that might be a little too much Toyota in a Jeep :D

[Big Red]

how much does yours weigh Paul? I know you've been pretty weight focused...

The D44 will have to stay, it's geared, ARBed, steering done, hydro-assist, etc. The only real consideration I had with the front axle was to put a Toy center-section in with my D44 outers (D44 shafts work in Toy side-gears). It's still a thought I'm kicking around to save probably 40 pounds, better clearance, swapable thirds with the rear, ability to run 5.29s... but that might be a little too much Toyota in a Jeep :D


Wow that pretty cool, didn't think you could do that in a 44, but like U said U are pretty commited to the 44 with whats in it.
Troy

[Paul S]

how much does yours weigh Paul? I know you've been pretty weight focused...

The D44 will have to stay, it's geared, ARBed, steering done, hydro-assist, etc. The only real consideration I had with the front axle was to put a Toy center-section in with my D44 outers (D44 shafts work in Toy side-gears). It's still a thought I'm kicking around to save probably 40 pounds, better clearance, swapable thirds with the rear, ability to run 5.29s... but that might be a little too much Toyota in a Jeep :D

I try not to worry about weight:)
Mine weighs just under 3800lbs with a full tank of gas, full size spare tire, spare parts (front axles, steering junk, fluds, etc...). The only places I can think of too lose more weight is my stereo, center consol, & make a lighter front winch bumper.

I've also been thinking about building a Toy Hi8/44. Great clearance, hi pinion, light weight, good for 37's, easy to fit under the front end. Only problem is that it will cost 4,000 + $.

Paul

[BrettM]

I've also been thinking about building a Toy Hi8/44. Great clearance, hi pinion, light weight, good for 37's, easy to fit under the front end. Only problem is that it will cost 4,000 + $.

Paul

$4000!? I'm guessing that's with all the goodies, alloy shafts, CTMs, Crane knuckles, hi-pinion, ARB, etc.

I figure I'd reuse all my D44 stuff including stock shafts, I'd probably loose $1-200 in selling my D44 gears and ARB and buying a Toy third (low-pinion) geared with ARB. Then it's just a matter of getting everything all lined up perfectly and welded together, that's where it gets complicated in my mind.

[BrettM]

okay, I took the bathroom scale outside and had a little fun :D

35x12.50r15 MTR, 70% tread, on 15x10 steel wheel with 5 golf-balls inside = 92 pounds

same MTR unmounted = 57 pounds (therefore 15x10 steel wheel = 35)

33x12.50r15 BFG LongTrail (very similar to AT) on 15x8 steel wheel = 69 pounds

Door with manual window and door locks = 52 pounds


Anybody got a weight for the rear glass? MJ preferred, but XJ rear glass is probably really close.

[rsalemi]

a 15X8 canyon weighs 21 lbs but won't have the backspace you need.

[Paul S]

$4000!? I'm guessing that's with all the goodies, alloy shafts, CTMs, Crane knuckles, hi-pinion, ARB, etc.



Exactly, + a custom high clearance, hex housing.

Figure 1500 for the HP 3rd with ARB, 600 for inner/outer axles, 900 for the housing with Crane inner knuckles. That's $3000 right there, & I still need everything form the outer knuckles out.

Paul

[XJ_ranger]

35x12.50r15 MTR, 70% tread, on 15x10 steel wheel with 5 golf-balls inside = 92 pounds


something i missed here?
make you go faster?

[BrettM]

something i missed here?
make you go faster?
balancing. works on the same principle as putting the Equal powder in, or BBs.

[magoo117]

How about losing the stock fuel tank and use a fuel cell?Aluminum racing seats will save weight also.Get rid of the leafs and use links with coilovers or airshox.I'm hoping mine will be around 3000 when it's done,MJ buggy with long arms and Fox airshox front and rear.

[BrettM]

I like where the stock fuel tank is mounted (good for COG) and it might be a pain to get a fuel-cell to mount well there, it's a thought though.

Seats are deffinitely a consideration.

Coilovers and definitely air-shocks are lighter than leafs, but factor 1.75 x.120 upper links and 2" x.375 lower links, and leafs probably come out lighter. Besides, that's a LOT of time and money and I'm very happy with my leafs.

[jeeppowermj]

i dont mean to hijack the thread but is it alright to run doorless? Do you have any braces or anything? I was thinking of making some half/removable doors this winter for my MJ but i dont want it too bend in half.

[BrettM]

running without the doors is fine, your MJ won't bend in half. I do run a door bar though, in case I lay by truck against a big rock.

[cccj]

I'm in the same boat you are with trying to reduce weight on my CJ. I am at 3520 with a 4.0l, AW4, 300, 30/44, 37" Krawlers, alum 17x8s, leaf springs. We are very similar with my cage equal to your roof and back wall and my winch to your bumper.
Something you might consider is simplify your rear frame with tube instead. Also do you really need a spare tire? Carry a plug kit and you already have oba.

Somthing you have to consider is you can't compare it to buggy weights, because it's not a buggy. Try to find other rig's weights that are built similar.

[BrettM]

I'm in the same boat you are with trying to reduce weight on my CJ. I am at 3520 with a 4.0l, AW4, 300, 30/44, 37" Krawlers, alum 17x8s, leaf springs. We are very similar with my cage equal to your roof and back wall and my winch to your bumper.
Something you might consider is simplify your rear frame with tube instead. Also do you really need a spare tire? Carry a plug kit and you already have oba.

Somthing you have to consider is you can't compare it to buggy weights, because it's not a buggy. Try to find other rig's weights that are built similar.
I've thought about tubing the rear frame, I'm sure it will come someday, but not yet. I've also thought of not carrying a spare, just a plug kit, but I think instead I'm going to get a 33x9.50 on an aluminum 15x7. That should be pretty light and still get me off the trail in case of a seriously slashed sidewall.

I'm still wondering if anyone has a good guess as to what the rear glass weighs?

[THRASHER]

I am in the middle of doing my full width swap on leafs as I type. My xj will be on 37's and I will try to get its weight when its done...

As for tools on the trails, I used to carry my box, but have now switched to one of those cheap kits you can buy at kragen for under $40. The case is much smaller and everything is always organized because the case is also molded. The quality is lower, but i only use it on the trail so I have gotten away with it so far. One of those kits, and one of the soft sided craftsman tool bags with some specialty stuff depending on the rig, and your not looking at to much weight...

[explorer]

Clean the mud off.

As my Jeep has been on stands for a while for various things, I've had lots of quality time staring at it in the garage drinking beer. I started weighing all the dirt I was chipping off during various tasks.

Inside wheel- 10-15lbs.ea.
Wheel wells/body- @another 10-15lbs. per corner.
Brake rotor or inside drum- 1-2lbs.
Center skid/crossmember(TJ)- 65-70lbs.

Keep in mind also that this was with a Jeep that from the bystanders view, was clean. I started weighing stuff because I could always tell a noticeable diff. after cleaning the Jeep if it was full of mud or snowpack. More noticeable than a passenger or two. As you can see, this "clean" check revealed @ 150 lbs of dirt hidden in the recesses of my Jeep. I'd be willing to bet that at its dirtiest my Jeep has had 3-400 lbs. of dirt hanging on it. Heck with killing trees, my Jeep could probably grow some.

[Dingo509]

I guess i'm a Heavy weight. 4980 Lbs. 1/4 tank, no passengers, no cooler or camping gear. I do however carry about every tool you'd ever want, including impact gun, air rachet and air drill, ax and shovel (required by naches forest service) and enough fluid to change almost everything at least once. Plus Front C4X4 bumper xd9000i, roof rack, and swingout with dual gerrycans, Im also running a D44 Front and FF D60 Rear, both with ARB's 33" SSR's on Steel Trailready Beadlocks. So I Think my axles are up to the task. Im guessing with a loaded cooler, full fuel and passengers im at about 5500-5600 Trail weight.

Dingo

[PapaPump]

What about composite leaf springs? I think rancho makes a kit for the YJ. I always wanted some for the rear of mine. A buddy replaced his single leaf pack in his Corvette with a composite unit and saved 45 lbs or so. that would mean you could save at least 100 of you made the YJ leaves work.

Those wheels and tires are pretty huge too though. upgrading from street tires (205/60R15s on stock 15x6 steelies) to 235/75/15s on Limited 15x7 "basketweave" wheels added 100 lbs. My Rigid bumper also added about 30 lbs or so. I am sitting at 3200 even, no-options model. (Okay I DO have a 4.0 and 4x4, so a couple options were checked thankfully)

[Weasel]

Yeah check out composite or fiberglass leaves. Probably spendy though. The rear glass probably is close to the windshield in weight. I though one of the mags weighted theri when they replaced it with a poly windshield, can't find it though. Also fiberglass hood, fenders. Could look at plastic, aluminum, composite skids.

[afd516]

Clean the mud off.

As my Jeep has been on stands for a while for various things, I've had lots of quality time staring at it in the garage drinking beer. I started weighing all the dirt I was chipping off during various tasks.

Inside wheel- 10-15lbs.ea.
Wheel wells/body- @another 10-15lbs. per corner.
Brake rotor or inside drum- 1-2lbs.
Center skid/crossmember(TJ)- 65-70lbs.

Keep in mind also that this was with a Jeep that from the bystanders view, was clean. I started weighing stuff because I could always tell a noticeable diff. after cleaning the Jeep if it was full of mud or snowpack. More noticeable than a passenger or two. As you can see, this "clean" check revealed @ 150 lbs of dirt hidden in the recesses of my Jeep. I'd be willing to bet that at its dirtiest my Jeep has had 3-400 lbs. of dirt hanging on it. Heck with killing trees, my Jeep could probably grow some. I don't have any doubt of how much extra weight we add to our vehicles carring around dirt caught up in every nook and crany of our jeeps. I just took a trench rescue class last month and learned an interesting piece of trivia. Dirt weighs 100 lbs per 1 cubic foot. I bet you could scrape that from each wheel well the first five minutes of wheelin for most of us. Especially with the added wieght of water in mud. I never thought about it till now, that adds up.

[SeanP]

My rig was 4714 with my cage partially completed, 1/2 tank gas and just the front seats. No spares, no tools, no nothing else. This was tallied with 4 digital weight scales that racers use.

I don't give a rats a$$ about weight. I built my rig (60, 9"/14B, atlas, hummer beadlocks, 38 sxs, cage) to be stout and not to break on the trail and be safe for the family. My junk doesn't get denied on too many lines either.

SeanP

[afd516]

My rig was 4714 with my cage partially completed, 1/2 tank gas and just the front seats. No spares, no tools, no nothing else. This was tallied with 4 digital weight scales that racers use.

I don't give a rats a$$ about weight. I built my rig (60, 9"/14B, atlas, hummer beadlocks, 38 sxs, cage) to be stout and not to break on the trail and be safe for the family. My junk doesn't get denied on too many lines either.

SeanP
Thats what I am talking about!!!

[Hickey]

Rear glass on a MJ is about 15 lbs. XJ would be about 20. I would tube the back half of your rig. The stock psuedo frame may be thin, but there is a lot of area as compared to a tube bed.

[BrettM]

i've heard bad things about fiberglass leaf springs breaking, especially when they're contacting rocks on a fairly regular basis. also they would not be tuneable like normal leafs. it's a good idea though.

[Capt. Nemo]

Get rid of the subs, amps, and 100 or so CD's in the glovebox, and you'll save at least 75# :laugh3: (j/k)

Seriously, get rid of the drum brakes in the rear. I'm amazed at how much those things weigh.

-How about an aftermarket, 50 states legal header? Those cast iron ones weigh alot and end up cracking anyway.
-If you aren't using the AC, the AC radiator (condenser?) in the front is dead weight along with the AC compressor itself.
-How about going to all electric fans and ditching the stock mechanical one. Aftermarket ones are plastic, and have to weigh less than the stock metal one.
-No sway bars, right. Those weigh a few pounds.
-Shorter exhaust system? Maybe save a couple of pounds.

I've also read of guys using special plastics as skids. The plastics industry is coming up with some pretty cool stuff that's really light and as strong as steel. I think I remeber reading it over on the PBB. The weight savings might not justify the cost, however.

[BrettM]

Get rid of the subs, amps, and 100 or so CD's in the glovebox, and you'll save at least 75# :laugh3: (j/k)

Seriously, get rid of the drum brakes in the rear. I'm amazed at how much those things weigh.

-How about an aftermarket, 50 states legal header? Those cast iron ones weigh alot and end up cracking anyway.
-If you aren't using the AC, the AC radiator (condenser?) in the front is dead weight along with the AC compressor itself.
-How about going to all electric fans and ditching the stock mechanical one. Aftermarket ones are plastic, and have to weigh less than the stock metal one.
-No sway bars, right. Those weigh a few pounds.
-Shorter exhaust system? Maybe save a couple of pounds.

I've also read of guys using special plastics as skids. The plastics industry is coming up with some pretty cool stuff that's really light and as strong as steel. I think I remeber reading it over on the PBB. The weight savings might not justify the cost, however.
no subs or CDs, just two 6 1/2s and my MP3 player :laugh3:

discs may come, but the Toy axle is so light already I'd rather focus elsewhere first.
header, that's a good idea, I'll probably do that along with an engine rebuild this fall/winter
no AC condenser
already using 2 electrics, no mechanical
no swaybars
exhaust is pretty short, ending only a few feet behind the cab

[Slip Kid]

just weighed an xj rear window @ ~12 pounds. rear quarter glass is ~6.5 each.

take out as much plastic trim as you can. also the lower part of the dash weighs a bit, with it's metal "backbone"

[explorer]

I don't know if the composite leaves would be good for this application. But Archer Brothers use to use them in their MJ's that they raced on the SCCA cicuit. I miss watching them beat up on all the 3.0 v6 imports with IFS using their 2.5 solid axle frt. end. I think they ended up quiting the class because they kept getting penalized in various ways to level the playing field for everyone else.

[Capt. Nemo]

Other than an aluminum radiator and fiberglass or carbon fiber hood and fenders, I'm out of ideas.

I'm sure Jesse James could help ya out :explosion

[davidt]

how do you like the electrical fans brett, any problems with overheating?

[Weasel]

Well you could take a hole saw and start drilling holes in things. Swiss cheese some of the internal cab brackets, skids plates, gun drilled axles. Take a grinder and remove any extra steel thats not critical. You could run the upper leaves composite and then run the lower one steel so it would take most of the impacts.

[AZXJ]

Brett,
Rear XJ Lexan or Petg hatch window will weigh about 6 lbs. I believe the glass was 12 or so lbs.
MJ rear window is smaller than the XJ rear window so I'm sure there is a few lbs diffrence.. If your interested in Lexan or Petg windows shoot me an email offlist and we can work something out..

Dave@simplyoffroad.com

As for shedding weight, I have been toying with the idea of building a vacume mold of my front end (has been dove tailed by 20 inches) out of plastic.
I removed about 80 lbs of weight by removing the inner fender wells and part of the front cross member. But I am using 1/4 inch 4x4 angle to plate the frame below the cab and using 2x2 and 2x5 for my sliders. Then will be adding an Exo and front hoops for support of the radiator and the shock mounts.
can't decide if I'm going to run leafs or build a long arm 3 link. Technically I could run a triangulated 4 link up front due to only having a 4cylinder there is so much more room up front. + the front axle will be moved forward a few inches as well.. shooting for 80+ approach angle. I also removed the bed and will be gutting the bed section, sectioning the bed sides and attaching them to tube. Bob and Dove tail of the bed are in the works..



yeah, the interior flooring is gone, replaced with bedliner.

I forgot to mention glass, since I'm primarily interested in it's summer weight (doors off) the door glass doesn't matter. I need to keep the windsheild because this sees a lot of street time as well. I did think about replacing the rear window with Lexan, does anybody have a good guess as to what a rear window (XJ or MJ) weighs?

Tools-
If I had a tow rig I'm sure I would leave most of my tools in it, but I don't have that choice. I know what you guys mean as far as the tools being dependent on the trail and the distance from home. Do I bring just every wrench I could possibly need on my vehicle, or do I bring all the other stuff in case someone else needs it? that type of thing.

[davidt]

AZXJ, what leafs are you going to be running up front? I am going with toyota rears, the pin on them is offset a bunch so should bump the axle forward 3-4"
Brett,
Rear XJ Lexan or Petg hatch window will weigh about 6 lbs. I believe the glass was 12 or so lbs.
MJ rear window is smaller than the XJ rear window so I'm sure there is a few lbs diffrence.. If your interested in Lexan or Petg windows shoot me an email offlist and we can work something out..

Dave@simplyoffroad.com

As for shedding weight, I have been toying with the idea of building a vacume mold of my front end (has been dove tailed by 20 inches) out of plastic.
I removed about 80 lbs of weight by removing the inner fender wells and part of the front cross member. But I am using 1/4 inch 4x4 angle to plate the frame below the cab and using 2x2 and 2x5 for my sliders. Then will be adding an Exo and front hoops for support of the radiator and the shock mounts.
can't decide if I'm going to run leafs or build a long arm 3 link. Technically I could run a triangulated 4 link up front due to only having a 4cylinder there is so much more room up front. + the front axle will be moved forward a few inches as well.. shooting for 80+ approach angle. I also removed the bed and will be gutting the bed section, sectioning the bed sides and attaching them to tube. Bob and Dove tail of the bed are in the works..

[slowrider]

My 87 MJ bone stock auto 4x4 long bed weighed 3320#. The only weight savings action I'm sure I'll take is to shorten the bed and frame behind the rear shackles. I dont think that'll come close to offsetting the 35's, armor, bumpers and winch, Oh well.

[AZXJ]

I'm actually going to be running XJ leafs up front on a modifyed HPD30 we are in the near future switching to a long arm and Bighorn air shocks. this setup is just temp so I can make the ArizonaXJ's 5th anniversary run onm Payette Draw.. The leafs were flipped around so the centering pin will be closer to the firewall and the axle will be pushed forward about 4 inches.. The perch will be much bigger than normal and wil retain the leafs in three spots.

I'll post a picture when it's done..

Later
DaveO

[BrettM]

does anyone have weights for any leaf packs and/or coil springs?

[Ludakris]

Well you could take a hole saw and start drilling holes in things. Swiss cheese some of the internal cab brackets, skids plates, gun drilled axles. Take a grinder and remove any extra steel thats not critical. You could run the upper leaves composite and then run the lower one steel so it would take most of the impacts.


this was going to be my idea.. i saw them do it on a DIY channel ricer show.. they were drilling out sections of the under hood support... i figured I could shave something...
not sure if you mentioned this, but what about those fiberglass racing seats w/ padded cover? might save something...

[BrettM]

does anyone have weights for any leaf packs and/or coil springs?
anyone?

[Ludakris]

might give Rustys or RE a call.. they might have shipping weights on them...

[BrettM]

this was going to be my idea.. i saw them do it on a DIY channel ricer show.. they were drilling out sections of the under hood support... i figured I could shave something...
not sure if you mentioned this, but what about those fiberglass racing seats w/ padded cover? might save something...
I'm definitely going to cut out a lot of hood structure if I don't make a lexan one. On the topic of seats, does anyone have weights of XJ seats?

[Matt S.]

No REAL weight on the seats. But I know seats with power are close to 35+ lbs. Seats with out frames are about 15sh lbs. I know that my new racing seats are about 5 lbs each with the covers and padding.

I am going to be wieghing my rig within a month, cuz its almost done :laugh3: but I we are guessing that will all the glass gone and all the metal and carpet and seats, etc. Going to be less than stock! Which is AWSOME.

Brett have you thought about getting a lexan rear window for the truck? That will do quite a bit to drop the weight.

matt

[BrettM]

Brett have you thought about getting a lexan rear window for the truck? That will do quite a bit to drop the weight.

matt


I am going to take the rear glass out early this summer when I take the doors off. I am seriously debating never putting the doors and glass back on but if the rear window does get put back in it will definitely be with lexan. However I read (earlier in this thread?) that an XJ rear glass only weighs 12 pounds, so I will probably only save 9-10 pounds by changing, I woulda hoped for more.

I will be AMAZED if you can keep yours to stock weight. tube, axles and tires add up FAST.

[JeepSpeed]

No REAL weight on the seats. But I know seats with power are close to 35+ lbs. Seats with out frames are about 15sh lbs. I know that my new racing seats are about 5 lbs each with the covers and padding.


matt

No way. Even w/o power, I guarantee front seats weigh around 40lbs. 5lb race seats? Somebody lied to you...

[JeepSpeed]

Well, you could have 5lb race seats. But that's if they're full carbon fiber/ kevlar units, and you shelled out $2K+ for the pair. So I take that back.

[Matt S.]

They are poly seats. I can look at shipping weight, but I am almost darn sure it was right around 5lbs maybe 10lbs. But with my memory, who the hell knows! I just know that they weight SOOOOOOOOO much less than stockers. I can weight them saturday to get an exact thing.

Stock is what.. 4600ish lbs? I really dont know what is it going to be, but I would be willin to bet that I have lost more than I have gained.

Edit to bretts post: :scared: 4000lbs! wow ok... dem tings are light! Never looked for the exact number before. oops.

[BrettM]

They are poly seats. I can look at shipping weight, but I am almost darn sure it was right around 5lbs maybe 10lbs. But with my memory, who the hell knows! I just know that they weight SOOOOOOOOO much less than stockers. I can weight them saturday to get an exact thing.

Stock is what.. 4600ish lbs? I really dont know what is it going to be, but I would be willin to bet that I have lost more than I have gained.
I really don't think any package of XJ/MJ broke over 4000 pounds and I'm pretty sure some packages (4cyl, 2wd) broke under 3000.

[tchase]

I've weighed 3 of our rigs so far.

All with me on board (approx 175lbs)
- '89 MJ 2.5 5spd 2wd: 3200lbs
- '89 MJ 4.0 t-flite 4wd with plow gear but no blade: 3600lbs
- '91 XJ 4.0 AW4 4wd no rear seats: 3500lbs

Haven't weighed the '89 XJ Limited but I'm betting it's a fat pig, probably close to 3800lbs.

[BrettM]

I've weighed 3 of our rigs so far.

All with me on board (approx 175lbs)
- '89 MJ 2.5 5spd 2wd: 3200lbs
- '89 MJ 4.0 t-flite 4wd with plow gear but no blade: 3600lbs
- '91 XJ 4.0 AW4 4wd no rear seats: 3500lbs

Haven't weighed the '89 XJ Limited but I'm betting it's a fat pig, probably close to 3800lbs.
are the MJs long-bed or short? does the 4.0 MJ have a lift or bigger tires? any guess on how much the plow gear weighs?

[JeepSpeed]

Mine prolly weighs right about 3000lbs. Light, huh?

[BrettM]

Mine prolly weighs right about 3000lbs. Light, huh?
details? and "prolly" based on what? go weight it

[Paul S]

does anyone have weights for any leaf packs and/or coil springs?

1 X 6" lift coil = 17lbs.

Don't know the weight of a leaf pack, but I'll bet you could cut over 50lbs converting to coils.

Paul

[davidt]

1 X 6" lift coil = 17lbs.

Don't know the weight of a leaf pack, but I'll bet you could cut over 50lbs converting to coils.

Paul
what about links, etc?

[XJZ]

Don't know the weight of a leaf pack, but I'll bet you could cut over 50lbs converting to coils.

Paul

Yeah, that's exactly what Brett wants to hear.......

I think that might be where he draws the line, no way he's giving up his beloved leaf springs! :)

[PapaPump]

since leaves act as the spring and the locator, i think they may actually have the advantage in light weight. problem is, if you need more axle control than you have to add control arms to leaves anyway. a bare leaf spring setup i think would be less weight at the expense of axle hop. coils with control arms can get pretty heavy. especially when running 5 links like the chero front setup.

[Paul S]

I'll weigh my control arms tonight. My guess is that 1 UCA + 1 LCA + 1 coil spring is about 30lbs.
I'm not going to weigh my leaf springs, but I know they're awfully heavy, probably 60 - 70lbs a side.
A good set of leaf springs will easily control axle wrap without a traction bar.

Paul

[BrettM]

Yeah, that's exactly what Brett wants to hear.......

I think that might be where he draws the line, no way he's giving up his beloved leaf springs! :)
actually you're only half right :D

I am 95% sure I will be doing a triagulated 3 link in the rear next month, though I still have no complaints about the leafs up front. Links in the rear will get rid of axle wrap and flex more where it's needed most (IMO). It is also much easier to do a quality link suspension in the rear of an MJ than the front.

I've read that the 4-leaf 63" Chevy leafs weigh 75 pounds each pack, my 57" springs are not much shorter and have several more (but thinner) leafs, so I'm guessing they are at least 60 pounds each. Doing some rough calculations I think I would loose anywhere from 50 to 80 pounds by going to coils in the rear (weight of coils + links), plus I can chop some more frame off and loose even more.

(If anyone is wondering why I would do something as bass-ackwards as changing an MJ from front coil/rear leaf to front leaf/rear coil read this and if you still have questions then ask: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140080 )

[JeepSpeed]

details? and "prolly" based on what? go weight it



According to autotrader.com, 94 4 door RWD Country curb weight is 2928lbs. Add whatever for the AW4 over AX-15. Subtract gas tank skid, all carpets, lighter steering wheel, lighter exhaust, no spare, no jack, no jack mount, no ABS, and other random small weight reduction, and I'm sure I'm close. Until I weigh it though, "prolly" is all I should say.

[XJZ]

actually you're only half right :D

I am 95% sure I will be doing a triagulated 3 link in the rear next month, though I still have no complaints about the leafs up front. Links in the rear will get rid of axle wrap and flex more where it's needed most (IMO). It is also much easier to do a quality link suspension in the rear of an MJ than the front.


)

You should have left the suspension well enough alone and just drive the trails in reverse (and as an added bonus when driving in reverse, you wouldn't need some fancy gizmo to keep your AW4 from upshifting. :) ).

[Paul S]

what about links, etc?

1 X UCA + 1 X LCA (heavy wall mid arms) = 15lbs.

paul

[Ludakris]

some more ideas, aftermarket steering wheel, non-tilt column vs tilt column, hood latch assembly vs. hood pins, remove the bed (if you still have it), tail lights (trail rig only isnt it?).
I know this is all little stuff, but it adds up...
I need to head to the landfill... they have a nice scale there...

[BrettM]

some more ideas, aftermarket steering wheel, non-tilt column vs tilt column, hood latch assembly vs. hood pins, remove the bed (if you still have it), tail lights (trail rig only isnt it?).
I know this is all little stuff, but it adds up...
I need to head to the landfill... they have a nice scale there...
any idea how much can be dropped with an aftermarket steering wheel? I already have a non-tilt column. I am already debating options for the hood. The bed is gone. The tail-lights stay, I drive this on the road a lot.

[JeepSpeed]

[QUOTE=BrettM]any idea how much can be dropped with an aftermarket steering wheel? QUOTE]



Seriously, I never even thought about this, and i'm obssesive with weight reduction. But, the stock steering wheel is heavy. And mines a 94', so I'm not even talking about the airbag one. I just got a "good deal" wink-wink, on a nice Pilot wheel, so I decided to switch it in. The stock non airbag wheel probably weighs 12-15lbs. It's alot heavier than it looks. I bet I saved close to 6 or 7 lbs with the new wheel.

[Ludakris]

This might not be an option, but could reduce some weight..if they work..
I saw a new double bead lock system that they showed at SEMA this year.. it used and intertube that would hold the bead to the rim, when filled with air.. its a retro fit to any wheel. I would think because its a tube it wouldnt weigh to much and it could be used with a light wheel... at least you could save on the weight of rock rings and bolts... I think they were $250 each.. so they are probably not cost effective, but seamed like a good idea..
I am thinking the price should come down, its basically just an innertube... but wide and flat..

[rsalemi]

The 3 spoke Sport leather/aluminum wheel is lighter than the stock plastic rim wheel and is a direct swap.

[tchase]

are the MJs long-bed or short? does the 4.0 MJ have a lift or bigger tires? any guess on how much the plow gear weighs?

At the time of the weighing the 4cyl was wearing 215's front and 225's rear on 15x6 steelies versus 235's on aluminums on the 4.0. The 4.0 isn't lifted but supposedly has the heavy duty front springs plus airbags. Both are shortboxes. As for the weight of the plow gear I have no clue, you could go here and try to guess for yourself:http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=55466

You might notice in the pics that the 4.0 is minus it's flares and inner fenders but I don't think that'd amount to much weight.

[ArcticXJ]

glass is pretty heavy, i know on hemi darts they came with the option of plexiglass windows that saved weight
IIRC, those 1968 hemi darts were also designated for drag-only, and not intended as ever seeing the street.

Does BrenttM's rig ever see asphalt, or is it trail only?
*edit* nevermind, I kept reading. There probably is no stipulation on what your rear window is made out of. With all the panel vans and whatnot out there, Im sure its legal to fill the whole thing in if you wanted.

I can understand the desire to save weight. Less weight=less strain on parts.
However, in this sport of ours, there comes a point at which you can compromise no further. In my opinion, you just gotta bite the bullet eventually and realize that no matter what, the rougher the trail, the beefier the gear needs to be to handle it. Lightweight parts are great for road racing, but for a hobby where our vehicles are banging into rocks with thousands of pounds of force, sh*t needs to be stout. In order to keep parts from breaking/bending/warping/etc., they need to be tuff. It would be great to have an entire rig made out of titanium, or to have custom 'mog 404's out of forged alumininum, but thats just not practical.

Dont rule out road safety, either. If a rig will still see the asphalt as well, you dont want to start taking so much from the structural rigidity of the vehicle that your left rolling down the boulevard in a tin can.

[Ludakris]

Just wanted to bring this thread back..
Brett.. have you done anything else to shave some weight?

[Matt S.]

Just wanted to bring this thread back..
Brett.. have you done anything else to shave some weight?

I think Brett is doing the same thing I did, take the fuel out of the tank and let it sit. If you dont feed it, it wont get heavier! :confused1

BTW, After wheeling a different rig for some time now. I really notice how much wieght contributes to things. Regardless of clearance and articulation.

[BrettM]

Just wanted to bring this thread back..
Brett.. have you done anything else to shave some weight?
a couple months back I got rid of this :D

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9670/p10101055et.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

but then added some back.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4301/standard23bt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


I'm sure i lost weight in changing the rear frame and going from leafs to coils, but I also added a little with the partial cage... not sure where it came out altogether.