Swing states; Off Roaders-Go Bush

Does any feel it would be a good idea to contact 'wheelers in some of the swing states? FL, MI, MN, OH, PA. Especially OH.

Reinforce the Off Roaders for Bush philosphy, let them know they'll be jeopardising their sport if they vote Kerry. Might help tip to balance.

What's the best way to do this? Web search? Contact local Off Road sites?

Any Pro-Bushers from the swing states out there ready to rally?

I'm voting Bush in the land of the liberal, tree-hugging, we-are-the-world hippies. Talking about a vote that's not amounting to much! Got to reach out to those who can help swing it!

What do you guys and gals think?

We should all drop this bs, and go back to how we were before the election.

Will you not answer my question I asked you XJZ.

Bush may not be the downfall of this sport, but it might in fact come much later because of policies set while he was in office or others.
We need to look at this from a long range perspective, not what’s going to benefit us now.
True it might make out sport continue to be around for years, but what are the long term effects? Could it be possible that there is over logging while trying to thin our forests? Then where will we wheel? Out in a barren area?
What about pollution? It ruins our environment, our air quality goes down, and species that need a delicate balance of the eco system could suddenly disappear.
What is wrong with trying to keep out forests and environment how it is, or making it better? If we destroy it, then 4wheeling and every other outdoor sport could be greatly affected, possibly disappear.
I am not in either camp here. I am simply for the "let future generations see and enjoy what you saw and enjoyed"

Can we keep this on topic? Why do repeat post on every thread?

I am standing up for what I believe in. It is my right in this country to do that. (Well at least I'm not flip flopping)
I am just taking the opposite side is all, how can we make the right decision on anything if we don’t know both sides? That is one reason to why I asked you about bush.

Okay back to this post.
The only problem with this XJZ is the election is only 3 days away, if you would have brought this up during the summer. You could have time to organize and rally support for our President. You said yourself your vote is already in the mail. So with just this little fact, how can you or anyone else be able to influence people before they vote. Most people have made up their mind by now. If they haven’t chances are they aren’t going to bother voting.

Z22_Z33 said:

We should all drop this bs, and go back to how we were before the election.

Will you not answer my question I asked you XJZ.

Bush may not be the downfall of this sport, but it might in fact come much later because of policies set while he was in office or others.
We need to look at this from a long range perspective, not what’s going to benefit us now.
True it might make out sport continue to be around for years, but what are the long term effects? Could it be possible that there is over logging while trying to thin our forests? Then where will we wheel? Out in a barren area?
What about pollution? It ruins our environment, our air quality goes down, and species that need a delicate balance of the eco system could suddenly disappear.
What is wrong with trying to keep out forests and environment how it is, or making it better? If we destroy it, then 4wheeling and every other outdoor sport could be greatly affected, possibly disappear.
I am not in either camp here. I am simply for the "let future generations see and enjoy what you saw and enjoyed"

Click to expand...

You want to look at both side?

You don't have a clue about what the greenes really want, but then you might being from Seattle.

Should we be logging? ABSOLUTELY!

You greenes all think the logging industry is in the 50s still. Todays technology and thinking of sustaining forests is so far beyond the greenes comprehension its not even funny.

Want to see what "hands off forests" does? Go talk to the people who's lives have been destroyed by lack of forest management in Colorado. What a joke there, "Don't touch it, its not good for it" BULLSHIT! Correct management of the forest is necessary and that involves todays forest/logging technology!

You say in one post you're just bring up what you believe in and then try and sugar coat it by saying you're playing devils advocate. (Bring up the other side) What's that crap?

If you really have a clue, funny thing is I just read a few other post by you and can see your naiveness, Bush is good for the total environmental management of this country unlike kerry who is a greene wacko!

Long term? A hands off approach to anything is not good for anything long term! PERIOD! You want to be able to have your kids have a forest to wheel in? Vote for people who have "management policies for our land" not "a close it to everyone" mentality!

hinkley

Well stated Mark.

I'm beginning to understand why Kerry has the support he does. This dude is a perfect example. The blind just follow the blind without knowing the bottom line facts.

Mark Hinkley said:

You want to look at both side?

You don't have a clue about what the greenes really want, but then you might being from Seattle.

Should we be logging? ABSOLUTELY!

Click to expand...

Ask the people who live in west SD what they think about logging. Since half the fawking state almost burns down every other year. "Oh, you can't clear out any dead trees" say the huggers. There are supposed to be 20-23 trees per square acre, there are 48-52 per square acre. The fire doesn't really spread to the ground at first, it hops along the tree tops and spreads really quickly, making it harder to fight. But some stupid bug lives out there, so you can't manage the forest correctly...

You people are funny. So how is the logging industry? I didn’t know little fairies came in and took away the trees. That’s great now I am for the logging industry, if they still come in and pull everything out with large machinery for profit, and say they are doing it for us(on public lands) then no I’m not for them. You want proof, go look up behind my Grandma’s house; the logging people thought they could log it all which they did. Now what’s there? Or are you going to claim she’s safer now? Well gee since there isn’t one tree there to block the wind, it instead knocked trees over in her yard. Yes I am for thinning of the forests but to a certain extent, its our own fault this has happened in the first place with all the major fires destroying homes. One we could not build homes right next to or right in the forest. But that isn’t feasible, we need someplace to live. I don’t know why any of you don’t see what I am talking about here. I simply do not want our forests to disappear. Then were well we wheel, backpack, camp, etc. etc?

You people can’t drop a thing. You always must think your right. Well hey I'm not any different. But at least I quit arguing here in this post, and went back to the reason it was created.

Z22_Z33 said:

You people are funny. So how is the logging industry? I didn’t know little fairies came in and took away the trees. That’s great now I am for the logging industry, if they still come in and pull everything out with large machinery for profit, and say they are doing it for us(on public lands) then no I’m not for them. You want proof, go look up behind my Grandma’s house; the logging people thought they could log it all which they did. Now what’s there? Or are you going to claim she’s safer now? Well gee since there isn’t one tree there to block the wind, it instead knocked trees over in her yard. Yes I am for thinning of the forests but to a certain extent, its our own fault this has happened in the first place with all the major fires destroying homes. One we could not build homes right next to or right in the forest. But that isn’t feasible, we need someplace to live. I don’t know why any of you don’t see what I am talking about here. I simply do not want our forests to disappear. Then were well we wheel, backpack, camp, etc. etc?

You people can’t drop a thing. You always must think your right. Well hey I'm not any different. But at least I quit arguing here in this post, and went back to the reason it was created.

Click to expand...

Totally GREEN thinking!

hinkley

Public lands? Well, Washington State DNR issues those permits and has authority. Complain to them. There are many types of logging permits issued, from clear cutting to slective. Depends on the area and the plans for the future.

Most logging also includes re-planting *at least* as many trees as was taken, hence "renewable resource".

Logging done correctly is a very healthy thing. Of course it is done for profit as well.... private industry does not pay people with "little fairy money".

It is a complex industry. Many paper companies lease land from the Feds and States. Many acres are also owned by the logging companies. Some is even *gasp* private land.

For the logging industry, the standards are always tougher. They are making progress in many areas, including lessening their impact on the environement.

If you have such a huge problem with logging in your area, go to the DNR. Go to meetings when they work over the permits. Get involved. Complaining about it on an internet forum will not help.

Are you aware of what DNR "School Lands" are? I wonder where the money from those timber sales go to? Hmmmm

BTW, before you spout off that I do not know of what I speak, I was a Washington State Commissioned DNR Warden with Police Powers, a Fire Fighter (both structural and wildland). I know a little about what I am speaking of.
Glenn

Z22_Z33 said:

You people are funny. So how is the logging industry? I didn’t know little fairies came in and took away the trees. That’s great now I am for the logging industry, if they still come in and pull everything out with large machinery for profit, and say they are doing it for us(on public lands) then no I’m not for them. You want proof, go look up behind my Grandma’s house; the logging people thought they could log it all which they did. Now what’s there? Or are you going to claim she’s safer now? Well gee since there isn’t one tree there to block the wind, it instead knocked trees over in her yard. Yes I am for thinning of the forests but to a certain extent, its our own fault this has happened in the first place with all the major fires destroying homes. One we could not build homes right next to or right in the forest. But that isn’t feasible, we need someplace to live. I don’t know why any of you don’t see what I am talking about here. I simply do not want our forests to disappear. Then were well we wheel, backpack, camp, etc. etc?

You people can’t drop a thing. You always must think your right. Well hey I'm not any different. But at least I quit arguing here in this post, and went back to the reason it was created.

Click to expand...

Z22_Z33 said:

You people are funny. So how is the logging industry? I didn’t know little fairies came in and took away the trees.

Click to expand...

Because they USED to clear cut, you assume that's how they do it now? Not likely. Most logging companies have an enviro branch now to help them do it right. Stop logging and use....what? Plastic? Metals? Brick? Well, what do you replace it with? At least with the new style logging they are replanting as they cut.

Sarge

Sarge said:

Because they USED to clear cut, you assume that's how they do it now? Not likely. Most logging companies have an enviro branch now to help them do it right. Stop logging and use....what? Plastic? Metals? Brick? Well, what do you replace it with? At least with the new style logging they are replanting as they cut.

Sarge

Click to expand...

I concur that they aren't 'clear-cutting' as in the past because legislation these days requires the companies to keep certain runoff zones intact. This helps keep the streams safe from erosion due to excessive rainwater flowing directly into them. They still 'clear' patches as allowed, while some folks still view it as irresponsible. Trees on the edges of these stands are no longer bound by their long-integrated root system with others and fall over from wind and rain eroding the soil. An alternative offered has been to harvest trees which have already fallen, but this has proven to be too expensive and time-consuming...so it's not common practice. At the same time there have been numerous pleas to allow natural forest fires to run their course since it is nature's way of cleaning house. I've heard it said it costs more to fight a wildfire than it does to clean up the stuff lying around.

I've always found it interesting. :lecture: As for alternative materials...well, my folks did their floors in bamboo. Not only was it cheap, it was durable and the source continues to produce more.