Ball joints and alignment?? Need 2nd opinion

Sorry, kinda long. Ok finished lifting my 87 xj with 168k and took it to a shop to get tires/wheels mounted and aligned and some other brake/u-joint work done. Got it back today with most everything done except the alignment (obviously off) The tech said that all four of my ball joints are bad and need to be replaced before an alignment can be done because it "won't hold an alignment". If they are bad is this true? Before I took it in, I shook both front wheels at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions (up and down) and couldn't feel any play. Estimate for labor is around $220 to replace them. Want about the same for parts but it looks like you can get 4 balljoints at Quadratech for about $100...

Tonight I jacked the axle up one side at a time from the knuckles, grabbed each front wheel and shook them again. Still couldn't feel any play. Pried a 2x4 under the tires and noticed a little bit of play on the passengers side but nothing on the drivers. So one side is atleast a little worn out.

Are ball joints very obvious to tell when they are "bad" and one side is still good or is the tech probably right and they all need replacing? Just one side? OR should I probably just have them all replaced anyway since I'm at 168K on originals? (I'm assuming, one side may have been replaced but not sure)

???? Also can i drive the thing about a week maybe 14miles a day with it being out of alignment? Vibes a little all the time, noticeable when just creeping along on the tar, a little bumpsteer also but otherwise seems somewhat driveable. Excessive tire wear? Big no no?....

I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and opinions!

I don't think putting that little of miles on you'll notice excessive tire wear... When I lifted mine I couldn't even drive it until I aligned it... over 30 I couldn't hold on to the wheel.

Just get it aligned as soon as possible to avoid any further damage. Also, if your ball joints are that bad you should feel some play.

My ball joints seem seriously worn, I can see them move at the joint, with the front diff/axle supported on stands. Jeep doesn´t wander, front end (steering) isn´t noticeably loose, tires wear flat across the tread. Doesn´t click when turning into a driveway, I figure it´s got some time to go yet. Gonna change them soon, hopefully the new ones will work as good as what I´ve got.
Could do a rough check (and possibly) an adjustment yourself, a close measurement across the fronts, at the rim edges ( close to axle hieght) and again at the rear of the front rims, from rim to rim, will give you a rough idea, whats going on. Front rims edge to edge, is about 1/8" closer on mine than the rear edges. The only time I notice any problem is at near steering lock left or right, alignments a little out.
I check mine periodically, I pound the front, on dirt roads, pretty regularly.
I wish I was ignorant enough, not to know what many of the so called experts are doing to my front end. Fine adjsutments using two hammers, to bend the tie rod end, makes me crindge. Last time my steering wheel was an 1/8th of a turn out when they got finished. I don´t visit them very often. Last time they tried to sell me a new tie rod end on the wifes XJ, not needed. It did need, a new trac bar that they never noticed.

On my 87xj, at 160,000mi, three of the four were bad. On the passenger side, when the axle was jacked up, there was a half inch of vertical movement in the ball joint studs, it was very obvious. I got a quote of $700 to replace them(to much, the cars' only worth $500 or so). I bought a ball joint press from NAPA with the Jeep accessories for $150 and did the job myself. I thought it was easy following the write up on madxj. The four ball joints from NAPA were about $100.

Thanks for the input guys. So if i get an alignment it will be thrown off by loose ball joints or will it be unaffected, or affected very little by driving?
Anybody highly reccomend replacing all 4 now? Anybody else reccomend going to a different shop and getting an alignment...call it good for awhile?

I think I'll drive it a little until i can get it back to exact...dying to flex er out
Ron: I read the writeup on madxj and it looks doable to me but I honestly have no time right now and would need to buy or borrow quite a few tools. I need to get this thing aligned asap.

8Mud said:

My ball joints seem seriously worn, I can see them move at the joint, with the front diff/axle supported on stands. Jeep doesn´t wander, front end (steering) isn´t noticeably loose, tires wear flat across the tread. Doesn´t click when turning into a driveway, I figure it´s got some time to go yet. Gonna change them soon, hopefully the new ones will work as good as what I´ve got.
Could do a rough check (and possibly) an adjustment yourself, a close measurement across the fronts, at the rim edges ( close to axle hieght) and again at the rear of the front rims, from rim to rim, will give you a rough idea, whats going on. Front rims edge to edge, is about 1/8" closer on mine than the rear edges. The only time I notice any problem is at near steering lock left or right, alignments a little out.
I check mine periodically, I pound the front, on dirt roads, pretty regularly.
I wish I was ignorant enough, not to know what many of the so called experts are doing to my front end. Fine adjsutments using two hammers, to bend the tie rod end, makes me crindge. Last time my steering wheel was an 1/8th of a turn out when they got finished. I don´t visit them very often. Last time they tried to sell me a new tie rod end on the wifes XJ, not needed. It did need, a new trac bar that they never noticed.

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speaking of weird, I had an alignement done at sears and I asked them about prices on rear shocks. They told me the price and then went on to say that I would have to have another alignment after I had the rear shocks put on.

Of course they offered another alignment after putting new shocks on...they are in business to sell "services" and they do a good job of selling crap like that. Don't do it...

As for the ball joints, since you mention later in the post that you jacked up the axle by the knuckles, I have to ask how you did the check. If you jack it up by the knuckles that can compress the ball joints enough that you might not notice wear. Use the axle tube to lift that.

Good point Yucca-Man. Did a more thorough inspection jacking from axle tubes and confirmed that ball joints on both sides have play in them. Found only a little bit, like 1/8" max (just enough so that you can tell there is play) When prying under the tires with a bar. My xj had a pretty bad front end shake at highway speeds before lift. Replaced Trac-bar and lower control arms with fresh poly bushings and seems to be completly cured even with old balljoints.

Need to replace??? Will an alignment "hold" if aligned the way it is??

xjfish said:

Anybody highly reccomend replacing all 4 now?

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definitely. if you're down there doing one, you might as well knock the other one out. once you get the hang of using that press, it shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes to take one out and swap in another one.

xjfish said:

...it looks doable to me but I honestly have no time right now and would need to buy or borrow quite a few tools.

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autozone rents all the tools to do it for free. my first time doing it took me a few hours but i didn't have a clue to what i was doing.. actually, my first side took most of the time.. the other side went a lot faster. half day to swap both sides seems about right.. uppers and lowers.

minus one said:

definitely. if you're down there doing one, you might as well knock the other one out. once you get the hang of using that press, it shouldn't take you more than 15 minutes to take one out and swap in another one.

autozone rents all the tools to do it for free. my first time doing it took me a few hours but i didn't have a clue to what i was doing.. actually, my first side took most of the time.. the other side went a lot faster. half day to swap both sides seems about right.. uppers and lowers.

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The question is do I (or someone else) need to be "down there doing one"? If I am getting anything replaced at all it will be all 4. IF ?

I do not have an autozone near me anywhere. All the rust down there scares me, kinda burnt out from wrenchin on the lift install, and I honestly am very very hard up for time now and I need this done kinda soon along with a front axle u-joint before i leave on a hunting trip!

Estimates: Not including $195.72 for supplied ball joints
$216 to install ball joints
$27 to replace axel u-joint (assuming low because hub already off)
$39.95 basic alignment

Prices seem fair to me but I really really need to know if replacing the balljoints is necessary so i can order some up asap! Or go to another shop and have them do the alignment and u-joint.

Thanks for your help. Peace.

xjfish said:

Thanks for the input guys. So if i get an alignment it will be thrown off by loose ball joints or will it be unaffected, or affected very little by driving?
Anybody highly reccomend replacing all 4 now? Anybody else reccomend going to a different shop and getting an alignment...call it good for awhile?

I think I'll drive it a little until i can get it back to exact...dying to flex er out
Ron: I read the writeup on madxj and it looks doable to me but I honestly have no time right now and would need to buy or borrow quite a few tools. I need to get this thing aligned asap.

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It's a solid axle. The ball joints affect camber, and that didn't change when you lifted it. Grease 'em up and keep going.

What changed is the toe setting. A 3" to 4" lift will cause the toe to go from zero to about 1/2" toed in. That's way too much, but you can align that yourself with a tape measure. Find GoJeep's personal web site and he explains it very nicely.

Eagle said:

It's a solid axle. The ball joints affect camber, and that didn't change when you lifted it. Grease 'em up and keep going.

What changed is the toe setting. A 3" to 4" lift will cause the toe to go from zero to about 1/2" toed in. That's way too much, but you can align that yourself with a tape measure. Find GoJeep's personal web site and he explains it very nicely.

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http://go.jeep-xj.info/HowtoAlignment.htm