Tell me I got hosed...(long, but worth it) [Archive] - NAXJA Forums -::- North American XJ Association

mikeny59

October 12th, 2004, 13:18

... so I can take action.

Scenario: Quarter of a tank according to gauge, '98 sputters and dies. I'm crankin' and crankin' with two Optimas, no go.

I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere, have to rely on a tow to get me to this guy who did my ds, but I don't trust him too much. Leave xj, calls me up, tells me the fuel gauge went bad, I was really on empty, and my ten minutes worth of crankin' burnt out the fuel pump.

I pick up the jeep, look underneath, the skid plate and all the fasteners I undercoated years ago do not look disturbed, but my fingernail easily removes the undercoating from boltheads holding the skidplate on. I go back asking to see the old pump, the guy starts b*&$ing and moaning that it's buried in the dumpster, makes a feeble attempt to find it but can't, nor the box it came in. I mention the undercoating, his helper says he just undercoated it as part of a "full quality" job, or something to that effect. That's why it came off so easy.

Then I ask about a warranty, first he says no such think on electrical parts, but he'll do me a favor and give me 30 days. Also could not produce receipt, says he signs for all parts on a monthly basis. He does mention that all the bolts I installed when I did the skidplate had antiseize on them, which they did, and I did find the b+ clamp disconnnected form the backup Optima under the hood, which also suggests that someone disconnected the juice to work on the jeep.

The guy's a real fast talker, I think in NY it's a law that you must get your old parts back.

Any suggestions? The fuel gauge is indeed totally inacurate, this incident is the first time it happened. Then I'm wondering why he didn't try to sell me a new sender unit.

I know it's after the fact, any suggestions what I might/should do? I'd hate to think I'm driving around on the old fuel pump, let alone the $ I'm out.

Thanks,

Mike in ny, member #300

BajaXJ92

October 12th, 2004, 13:22

just one more reason to work on your own junk.

JeepFreak21

October 12th, 2004, 13:28

sounds like you got hosed.

I've never heard of fuel pumps going bad from cranking too much... just starters. Aren't fuel pumps always pumping at the same rate... whether you're starting or running???
Billy

Loose_Nuts_Enterprises

October 12th, 2004, 13:43

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.

Dan

2xtreme

October 12th, 2004, 13:48

Loose_Nuts_Enterprises

October 12th, 2004, 14:02

Anyone who has years of driving under their belt has had something similar to this happen to them.

There are several things you can do. More things you should do. And several things you need to do.

Need to do:
For your own piece of mind. This is a really cheap lesson that is not worth getting stressed about. Do not let it **** you off, change your attitude, or negatively affect your mind/body.

Should do:
Tell eveyone you know not to use this person/shop in the future. Call the better business beauro and report him. find out what the law is with regard to getting your parts, and warranty, etc. If it is the law, take him to small claims court and get your money back.

In reality:
probably not worth the time and effort of court, or finding out the law and acting on it. Never leave a car in the shop in the future without talking with the mechanic about keeping the old parts, and understanding what they are going to do and when (as well as an estimate of costs).

The best we can do is all learn from our experiences.
I wish that my similar experiences were just a fuel pump!! I also wish that I only had 1 simlar experience!!

Michael
You better find out exactly what happened before you go bad mouthing, calling BBB and threatening lawsuits. Bad word of mouth can ruin a small business faster than good word will make it prosper. I don't necessarily think he was hosed, merely by the fact that he did not know the pump and sender are the same part and what is involved with replacement of the part. But you know as well as I do at this point....maybe he should talk to the mechanic instead of the 'Fast Talkin' New Yorker.

Dan

JeepFreak21

October 12th, 2004, 14:13

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.

Dan

OK, but the guy did say that he took the skid off and then sprayed underbody coating over it again.
Billy

myjeepsbigger

October 12th, 2004, 14:13

Talk to the parts place the shop sourced the pump from. The burden of proof should be on the shoulders of the shop, so he should have no problem with you speaking with the supplier. He should also give you at least a 6/6K warranty on the part. That's pretty much a minimum repair industry standard. I deal with shops all day as a part of my job.

Also, look at the fuel tank near the supply line. He would've had to remove the assembly from the tank. It should be obvious if that's been worked on/and or replaced.

Third, running out of fuel is a very common way to destroy an electric fuel pump (no matter what manufacturer).

red91

October 12th, 2004, 14:18

While everyone is correct about the pump and the sender unit being one piece, I'm pretty sure on the 98 you have to drop the tank to get to it.

"Tell me you got HOSED?" You got Hosed.

In most states you have every right to get your parts back. Once it exceeds a certian amount the shop is obligated to inform you of how much more it will cost. In Wa the limit is over $100.00.

But your in NY. Big suprise you'd get screwd there.

Yucca-Man

October 12th, 2004, 15:40

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.I'll admit off the bat that I haven't changed the pump on a '98; however I seem to recall that the tank needs to be dropped to get at the sender/pump/filter assembly in that year and all 97+ XJs. Right? the pump is in-tank and cooled by fuel surrounding it. Running on 'E' will burn it up.

As for 'getting hosed' it certainly does sound shady. Were the boltheads coated the same as the rest of the underside? If he recoated it there should be a distinct difference in shade or consistency.

mikeny59

October 12th, 2004, 16:24

I dropped the tank at about 50k to change the filter attached to the pump - even though the fas says I believe that the filter does not need servicing, at least at that low a mileage.

The shop isn't listed in the the bbb's database. If he could just show proof of the part purchase, I'd be happy. I have no idea which local Chrylser/Jeep dealer he got it from. I am chummy with the local Jepp parts guys, I'll see what list is on the unit. He did tell me my cost for the part was $340, charged me $150 labor before realizing I had an aftermarket (C4X4) bumber, factory skid plate, and hitch, then said he should have charged me more, but didn't, when he saw all the crap surrounding the tank.

If the sender is part of the unit, while is the fuel reading still bad? Maybe the gauge is the culprit?

I have not done anything legal wise, as usual I did pay with amex in case I decided to dispute the job. We did get into a screaming match when I asked him to show me the old pump or the invoice. Many years ago when I was a mechanic's helper, we saved a copy of everything that was delivered to our shop, even a stinkin' set of lug nut studs and bolts.

Thanks so far for the responses.

Mike #300

co5tant

October 12th, 2004, 16:38

hey I looked up the list price for the fuel pump and its $295. He should be able to show you the old pump or at least a reciept for the new one. I have worked a at shop and every parth that was brought there needed to be signed for so there should be some proof. Also the tank does need to be dropped to replace the pump. As for them respraying undercoating back underneither your rig I cant imagine a shop that cant even come up with a reciept would go the extra mile to respray underneith.

red91

October 12th, 2004, 16:45

1. NO shop is on a " We'll send you your bill at the end of the month. " Every parts guy generates a receipt so that when the part is delivered, it is signed for to prove that the customer received it. No signature on the bill why should he pay it ?? He either has a receipt for the part, or he's lying.

2. Most dealerships in the towns I've seen RARELY let 2 similar dealers compete with the same brands. ( 2 chev dealers, kia, toyota.) Because it's not good for the Car Companys themselves having 2 guys trying to undercut each other that close together. You may have a couple of jeep dealers in your area, but not more than that.

" tell me I've been hosed." YOU'VE BEEN HOSED.

2xtreme

October 12th, 2004, 20:12

You better find out exactly what happened before you go bad mouthing, calling BBB and threatening lawsuits. Bad word of mouth can ruin a small business faster than good word will make it prosper. Dan

Just to make it clear. I agree 100% Dan. You have to be sure before you impact his reputation or legal pursuit.

The mechanic should have the used parts and or proof of the parts that he put in his truck. If you can not show proof that you put a part in the truck then he should not pay for it.

I hate bad mouthing mechanics (most are very good) but the bad/ignorant few really give them a bad name.

At the end of the day, make sure we all learn from this.

Michael

xjmac2

October 13th, 2004, 13:33

He may have put in a junk yard part or something he had laying around?

biscuitboy87

October 13th, 2004, 14:33

ask for the parts first. in CA every work order has a little line covering the return of old parts and if you ask for them it is law that they keep them to give to you when the work is done... but you have to ask before any work is performed. if the guy wouldn't show you the old part, don't go back. he doesn't seem to want your business...or any of your friends or relatives for that matter. jusy my opinion, but from the way you tell it he sounds like an ass. 2%

RichP

October 13th, 2004, 15:13

First off there is no way you can get a 97+ fuel pump out with out dropping the tank. I spent a half hour with mine up on a lift trying to see if it was an easy fix and no way could I even touch the thing. The 97, 98 and I imagine some 99's had a crummy sending unit on the fuel pump, the resistor stuff comes off and it gives bad readings, the other issue was the plugs behind the dash board, they get loose and corroded causing the gauges to all drop to -0- and the air bag light to come on. 97's had a recall on this fuel pump sending unit problem, 98's did not but mine was built in 97 and I *KNOW* that they used one of the old pumps in my jeep. 98's had the plugs under a TSB not a recall so I got the short end on that one but what I did was remove the dash, clean the plugs and pins then put it back together again.
If you bought and paid for a OEM jeep fuel pump it should also have come with a warranty of some sort.
Now, if all he did was dump 5 gallons of gas in and fire it up and it ran then bent you over be prepared for that pump to go, they DO NOT like being run dry, the older XJ's, 96 I think and older pumped fule up to the fuel rail and back again cooling the pump. The newer ones did away with that and now cycle the fuel inside the pump to keep it cool. Thru experience with other vehicles you may get away 2 or 3 times running out of gas but each time there is cumulative damage to the pump, those babies freakin RUN and move alot of fuel. Just my .02....

mikeny59

October 13th, 2004, 17:37

I downloaded the form from NY DMV to file a complaint, I just want to see a receipt from the day he installed it. It was towed on a Friday and he called me first thing in the morning Saturday to pick it up.

I've not discussed this situation with anyone but here on the forum, so his rep hasn't been affected either way.

Like I said before, I dropped the tank at 50k to change the screen/filter on the pump, and again, he said that the bad reading that still exists on the gauge is probably due to a bad gauge.

I appreciate all the differing points of view, though my profile says I've been a member a short time, i've been posting on and off since at least '98 when I bough my Classic. I've lways been treated right here.

Mike/NY #300

mikeny59

October 14th, 2004, 18:06

Decided to drop the tank this weekend to see exactly if anything's been disturbed that would indicate the job was done.

Two Jeep parts departments told me they don't normally stock the part, but can usually get it in one day. My xj broke down on the Friday before labor day weekend, the parts guy I deal with said he did not sell one that day, the other wouldn't tell me if one was sold that day.

Can any Chrysler dealer (non jeep) order the part? Even if they could, what are the chances that they would even stock it?

After I drop the skidplate/hitch, etc... and if I discover that the pump wasn't replaced, I'm going to see if amex will credit my account while the dmv complaint is processed. NYSDMV gives 3k miles or 3 months to file a complaint.

Thanks

Mike #300

RichP

October 14th, 2004, 18:13

Might want to have a witness there or videotape the thing as you do it. Just an idea.

XJ_ranger

October 14th, 2004, 18:16

Might want to have a witness there or videotape the thing as you do it. Just an idea.and someone to help, hitch/skid = heavy... and someone else there always makes it more fun

-XJ_Ranger

mikeny59

October 14th, 2004, 18:26

Thanks,

have a goood night, apppreciate the advice.

Mike #300

Eagle

October 14th, 2004, 18:38

Dunno about the fuel pump and sender in the new style tanks, but in the older XJs with steel tanks although the sender is attached to the same assembly as the fuel pump and they go into the tank together, they are in fact separate parts and you can buy just a fuel pump.

As I said, I do NOT know if this applies in the case of the newer models. I'll pull out the 2000 FSM and read up.

Don't know about NY but I believe in Connecticut you are entitled to get the old parts back if you specified ahead of time that you want them. Otherwise the shop is not obligated to return them or have them available for inspection, although the shop at my dealership usually does.

Eagle

October 14th, 2004, 18:46

Found it.

REMOVAL
(1)Remove fuel tank. Refer to Fuel Tank Removal/Installation.
(2) Remove fuel pump module. Refer to Fuel Pump Module Removal/Installation.
(3) Remove electrical wire connector at sending unit terminals.
(4) Press on tab (Fig. 28) to remove sending unit from pump module.

INSTALLATION
(1) Position sending unit to pump module and snap into place.
(2) Connect electrical terminal to terminals.
(3) Install fuel pump module. Refer to Fuel Pump Module Removal/Installation.
(4) Install fuel tank. Refer to Fuel Tank Removal/Installation.

Looks like there's a good chance you still have a defective sender in there.

TNScrambler

October 14th, 2004, 20:28

Did he specifically say that he purchased the part from the Jeep Dealer?

I'm a manager for advance auto parts, and I can tell you that many shops source parts from many different places....usually its whoever will sell it to them the cheapest. We even have some shops who contact us, we inturn go to the dealer, buy the part, mark it up and sale it to the customer, now this is only in the case of a commercial customer, as second sourcing usually does not bring in much if any profit, but alows for great customer service.

Also, one of our commercial accounts is a toyota dealer, they take in many used vehicles and source parts from us for such vehicles....but, surprisingly enough they even purchase aftermarket toyota parts from us, as many times our parts are cheaper than their own parts.

However, even if this shop has an account with an autoparts supplier which is payed on a monthly basis, there is a paper trail. Whether or not a part is delieverd, or wheather or not there is tax charged, if it is a commercial account there is a a commercial invoice that is printed which they have to sign even if they pay cash. All of these accounts are are saved not only for obvious reasons, but also for cases just as this where the shop drops the ball, or looses paperwork and needs a warrenty claim, we still have reciept.

This not just with advance auto, but any other part supplier I've worked for, both dealerships and in the aftermarket.

Good luck,
Justin

Also, Advance shows a carter fuel pump for the '98 without the sending unit for $89 retail.....so he could have sourced it from any aftermarket supplier, charged you for a discounted dealer list price and made out like a bandit;)

mikeny59

October 15th, 2004, 03:13

While I was waiting around to get a ride from the shop, I think I heard him call a local Chrysler dealer on the phone in the shop to locate the part.

I broke a rear ujoint during the summer and thrashed the yoke on the Chrysler 8.25, I remember him calling around and finally found one at the local Dodge dealer.

The sender is still bad (unless it's actually the gauge that went) I don't know which part usually fails more often than the other, wouldn't you think that a brand new oem unit would've solved the gauge problem, and if it didn't, he'd try to sell me a new gauge?

BTW, I learned that his shop is not a NYS registered repair facility. I should have known, it's attached to one of those strictly used car dealers, but I guess that doesn't necessarily prove anything.

My ususual mechanic was my best friend who passed on a number of years ago, I managed to do everything on my vehicles except when stranded, and the reason I chose this guy was because his kid was one of my students where I teach.

Thanks again for all the responses over the last few days. The info has made me rethink alot of what happened and what now to do.

Mike #300

RichP

October 15th, 2004, 05:54

The fuel gauge itself is part of the dash board and has to be replaced as a unit. Cost is over $600 from dealer. I replaced my 98's idiot light panel with a used 97 gauge panel I got for $35 and it has worked fine with only two differences, the 'security' and 'low washer fluid' lights are reversed, now when my windshield washer fluid gets low the security light comes on. I got the panel thru one of the boards, either here or blue mountain jeep alliance, forget now but there are several www sites that sell them from wrecks for around $100 or so.
One of the other things on my 98 that I found was that the big bulkhead connector down by your left foot, big grey box, was loose and almost falling out and contributing to several problems including resetting the radio presets and loosing clock time when I'd hit a bump, found it while I was installing the fog light kit. Took it apart, cleaned it out and put it back together. The combined fixes of cleaning the plugs behind the instrument panel and tightening the bulkhead connector have eliminated all my problems EXCEPT the gas gauge problem and that is from the junk factory sender. Until my fuel pump goes or for some reason I drop the tank I am not going to replace a perfectly good $200+ fuel pump for a bad sender, I just use my trip meter and never let it go for over 300 miles before filling up.
In a way I was in the same boat as you, had a very close friend that took care of our vehicles that I trusted. He sold the business and moved 300 miles away to upstate watertown NY about 5 years ago, it is only recently that I have formed another relationship with a fellow friend and church member who opened up a shop and I have been taking care of his computer needs [this stuff he's buying is state of the art snap-on/Mitchell, bluetooth wireless, etc].
While going after this guy may give you some satisfaction I would personally chalk it up to personal experience and file it away. It's not worth the extra time to take him to court just make sure to never recommend him to anyone. Order a new pump from the dealer and install it while you have the tank down. If the problem is still there then I would go for one of the used panels unless you have deep pockets.
I've been playing with my old idiot light panel and will continue to play with it this winter by replacing the idiot lights with stewart-warner gauges in all 4 corners, it may not work but we'll see. Good luck with whatever you decide and remember he's not worth a single tums....

mikeny59

October 15th, 2004, 12:03

Rich,

Before the weekend's out I'll drop the tank and ascertain if the present pump has even been removed. This happened only about a month ago and if it's new it should much cleaner than the surrounding tank area.

If amex credits my account and debits his (I'm about to call to see how this works) and providing the old pump is still there, the $600 or so I get back will feel much better than me stewing over this every day. I looked at my bill and nothing is itemized, part, labor, and tow are grouped together. He specifically said the oem unit was $340 my cost, but I guess due to his detailess bill, he could dispute that.

His shop is not listed with the BBB.

Thanks for the words.

Mike #300

Steele

October 15th, 2004, 13:30

Where abouts in NY is this shop. You might of screwed your self by going to a non registered state of NY shop, its kinda like having a back yard mechanic do the job for ya and then try to settle a despute. I doubt the BBB would even touch this case, because technically its not a licensed and insured NYS motor vehicle shop. Its too bad you lost your reliable mechanic, but there's plenty of good ones out there, and all it takes is one to ruin the reputation of many. I'd avoid the court stuff cause that's gonna cost you more than what you already lost. You might want to contact the NYS DOT who issues the big signs on the front of NY shops, typically big green ones, and see what that particular shop is licensed to do. Hopefully this shop is no where close to Syracuse.....

mikeny59

October 15th, 2004, 15:20

Western Suffolk County, Long Island. Like I said before, I'm going to call amex and see what they'll do. They've backed me up a couple of times - very small disputes - in the last 14 years, I'm in the middle of dropping the tank before I call them.

Thanks,

Mike #300

mikeny59

October 18th, 2004, 06:46

Saturday I visited the Jeep parts manager I do all my business with. He's the coolest, does me favors all the time and once in awhile I bring his dept. food. I asked if he sold my fuel pump that day (day of repair) 30 seconds later the computer shows they do not even do business with the guy who I think ripped me off.

Then he said Monday (today) he'll call around local DC and Jeep parts departments to see if this shop bought my pump that day. When I said that the mechanic/owner said he was giving me the pump at cost ($340), the parts manager said that's the correct price for the part including the sender, and laughed that the mechanic said he wasn't making a dime on the deal.

He also said the gauge should now work, because in all the years he's been at the dealership he has never seen a gas gauge go bad on an xj, but he's sold a fair share of sender units.

I showed him my invoice (I'll try and scan and post it w/o the guys name and address) and absolutely nothing was itemized on it. He said there is no reason I shouldn't get this whole situation reversed, especially when I requested the part returned and not even a part invoice was produced. He said no reputable shop has a part delivered without a copy of the invoice.

BTW, the mechanic/owner filled the gas tank when I picked up the xj, no charge, the parts manager chuckled and said of course he would, he just made $600 for doing squat.

I'll keep you informed.

Mike #300

mikeny59

October 26th, 2004, 12:20

http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=206280455

AMEX is giving me temporary credit until thet settle the dispute, 4 to 8 weeks. They want to see my diatribe and photos I'm sending to NYSDMV, they said I have a very compelling case, especiall with the lack of guarantee and non itemized bill.

Here are some photos that show the condition of the top of the tank (no fingerprints in other photos anywhere on top of tank or pump) after about 4 weeks of driving around.

Mike #300

Beej

October 26th, 2004, 12:27

I could not see that link. It says you have to be the owner of the album to see it.
B.

mikeny59

October 26th, 2004, 14:53

http://community.webshots.com/user/pribblesoon

Try this.

Mike #300

mikeny59

October 27th, 2004, 05:10

http://community.webshots.com/user/pribblesoon

Mike #300

Jeepin_rebel

October 27th, 2004, 05:53

From what i have heard it sounds like the fule pump relay went out on it. I had this happen to mine and replaced the pump and a bunch of other crap befor i took it to the shop. It was there all of an hour befor they gave it back to me and charged 15 bucks for the relay. It sounds like you got hosed... you might wana take a look at your relays and see if there is a new one. He might have just replaced that and told you the other stuff was bad. just my .02

RichP

October 27th, 2004, 06:56

That does not look like anywhere near a new fuel pump.

mikeny59

October 27th, 2004, 07:09

AMEX already credited me the $599 and change and said just to send them the same stuff (pix/description of incident) to them that I'm sending to DMV.

Thanks for looking at the pix.

Mike #300

redyouch

October 27th, 2004, 07:55

you def got hosed, good thing you dropped the tank and took pictures. good thing u got your $$ back. good job catching a cheater.

JEONLYEP

October 27th, 2004, 20:33

mikeny59

October 28th, 2004, 03:24

I'm lucky, my local Jeep parts manager is a saint, he 'll do any favor I need. Coincidentally, the local Dodge dealer this criminal got my 8.25 yoke last summer from is about 100 yard away from his shop. My Jeep guy called them for me last week and said that no one ordered my pump that day from this Dodge dealer.

Now I have to decide if I should again pull the tank, replace the sender, or order the entire pump/filter/sender from my guy (at a very good price). I'm getting mixed messages whether cranking the motor dry for between five and ten minutes damaged the pump and shortened it's life. I get my fuel now via the trip odometer . At least I got dropping the tank and reinstalling it (next time with a lot less gas in it) down to a science.

Thanks everyone for all the interest in this thread, I finally realized it should have been in the OEM forum all along :shhh:

Mike/NY #300

Spudboy

October 28th, 2004, 06:54

Not defending the mechanic but here is another point of view. For the 15 years I owned a shop, we bought most of our parts from 3 different warehouses. We would pick up the parts and sign for them on a ledger sheet. Got an itemized bill at the end of the month. So most of the time I did not have an invoice for parts (could have come up with a paper trail if I really needed to, but not on site). Point is, at least in Idaho, he could have been telling it straight about no receipt if he got the part from a parts jobber. I did save the old parts but rarely got asked to see them.

In my early career, I worked at an auto tranny shop. A customer wanted to see the parts from his tranny before he agreed to a rebuild. The salesman (not a mechanic) showed him some busted up gears from my lunched '55 Ford 3-speed. He really did need the rebuild so I didn't feel too bad, but it illustrates that just because you see some parts doesn't mean they came from your vehicle.

If you get to keep your money you did well, and if the mechanic really did replace the fuel pump, he got a $600 lesson on customer service. I guarantee that I could have found that fuel pump in a dumpster after one day if I needed to.

RichP

October 28th, 2004, 07:48

Sounds like things are pretty much solved. But I did want to say that I get all my "Jeep" parts from my "Dodge" dealer. The Jeep dealer around here is awful. The way I understand it is any D. Chrysler part is available at any D. Chrysler dealer, brand not withstanding.

.02

Same with mine BUT I do need the vin number to order it with, good news is that I mentioned this ability to other jeepers in the area and they are now going to the dodge dealer and ordering parts. Starting to see the parts instock lately where I had to wait for them before. He also asked for recommended parts list so I said 'cps, tps, map, fuel pumps, relays, filters, AX-15 lube, rubber plugs for the 8.25, plug wires, caps, rotors and plugs, ldlers, belts, tstats, pressure caps, water pumps' now he stocks them which saves me an hour and half drive down and back [45 eachway] from the nearest well stocked jeep dealer. The first time I went in there to order stuff for the first TJ he didn't take me serious till I walked back out and came back with the FSM to point out the part I needed, guess that $100 investment was good for validation in his eyes and he went the extra distance to pull down the jeep stuff. He even let me put a stack of my business cards and brochures there :D :D

One thing I have noticed is that we get strange looks from people, customers mostly, when they pull in and see 4 jeeps in the driveway [we got that 89YJ back we sold last year so thats number 4]....

mikeny59

November 26th, 2004, 14:00

Guess what? American Express sent my complaint to an "automotive specialist" and transformed my temporary credit for $598.12 into a PERMANENT credit. The lowlife never turned a wrench on my xj.

The local NYS DMV guy, really nice on the phone, coincidentally called me to tell me what's he's going to do, and made me aware that my complaint will become a matter of public record, meaning ANYONE, not just the mechanical thief can use the Freedom of Information Act to view it - along with my new unlisted phone number, cell phone number, etc... and po box number (changed them for unrelated reasons, you know, women problems) and ANYTHING else in the documments, including the goshdarn envelope. Be aware of this fact, I was not. I called the DMV right back and after he talked to a supervisor, the investigator said to fax him the information I want blacked out with black magic marker, because Albany will still have my original complaint on file probably till after I'm long dead and gone. I did change my AMEX account number immediately, duh...

I did feel guilty not pursuing the complaint through DMV, because that means that other people are going to get screwed by him. Maybe NYS DMV will pop in on him unexpectedly and check his business practices? I wish there was an ethical way I could spread the word of his crappy business practices, but I'm not that type. But if you live in western Suffolk County, NY, e-mail me and I can definitely tell you where not to go, especially since he says his speciality is setting up rear ends (on oval track race cars).

BTW, the DMV guy said even if I got the entire repair done by him as resolution, or received money back instead, I still would have had to pay for the tow!!! AMEX gave me back 100% of my money, including the tow!

Man, it is definitely worth paying AMEX's yearly fee for that insurance, and they assured me that it will not harm my fico score because they just took their money back from the miscreant's account. And I still see the guy's kid in school everyday where I work, ha-ha-ha!!!

Thanks for all the views and responses, I hope I save other people heartache in the future.

One question though; Could the fuel pump really have been damaged from cranking it dry for about five minutes straight in 90 degree heat, seriously? I'd like to get away with changing just the sender and filter, but my parts guy will do me right on the entire unit. And the jeep is probably going to end up in a summer home in FL. next year, sitting in a garage most of the time.

Thanks all!!!

MikeNY #300
mmagnatt@optonline.net (can't get the automatic email thing to work)

Avanteone

November 26th, 2004, 14:44

Glad to see you got everything worked out. As a repair shop owner as well, I hate seeing this kind of thing go on. Cranking on it while empty could have caused some damage to the pump. How much? Who knows. Every time it sucks a little air it does a small amount of damage and shortens it's life. The question you need to ask, is would you rather replace the pump NOW while it's fresh on your mind and your parts guy is gonna give you a deal on it? Or would you rather wait until it dies on you somewhere and you've got to tow is again? Pretty simple to me, I would replace it for the piece-of-mind.

John

goodburbon

November 26th, 2004, 14:59

its such a PITA to drop the tank, I'd do it once and be done with it, change it. and I am glad to hear you got things right. you don't need the whole 340 dollar thing, carter makes a lifetime warrantied replacement with both filters and a gasket for a hundred bucks. I just changed mine this afternoon as a matter of fact.

redyouch

November 26th, 2004, 17:21

if it isnt broken, dont fix it. you could change it and the replacement could be faulty and break. so now you have changed it twice when you could have possible never had to change it. i would just leave it till it dies.

Mike@Accurate

November 26th, 2004, 17:39

My '97 TJ got recalled for the guage thing (not the '00 XJ though). My tech buddy said they replaced 100's of senders. Yours probably was recalled at one point. Doesn't help, but interesting. MIKE

DenLip

November 29th, 2004, 11:33

In my early career, I worked at an auto tranny shop. A customer wanted to see the parts from his tranny before he agreed to a rebuild. The salesman (not a mechanic) showed him some busted up gears from my lunched '55 Ford 3-speed. He really did need the rebuild so I didn't feel too bad, but it illustrates that just because you see some parts doesn't mean they came from your vehicle.

MY oh my... THAT makes me feel MUCH better...

When my XJ was a mere pup (12k mi), JiffyLube showed me how filthy my air cleaner was... (it *was* horrible). I told 'em "just put it back in, I'll take care of it". I bought a new air cleaner and replaced it. Funny, 40k later, it STILL isn't 1/4 as dirty as that original one was. (Gettin' a K&N Real Soon Now).

It reminds me of a motto I once had, when I was a poor college student:
--- Never pay anyone to do anything that you can do yourself ---

JiffyLube has never gotten another cent of my money ... and I've done ALL of my own oil changes, before and since.

And, last week, when I did my "pre-inspection" on the XJ, I was concerned about the rotors... and, lo-and-behold, the inspection guy made me get new rotors because the old ones were rusted/pitted. Crap. Paid more for that than I needed to!

Den

Beezil

November 29th, 2004, 11:54

hey, good story, Mike.

I know you were desperate at the time, but baja is right, this is the REASON why we work on our own junk.

"trustworthy" is a rare trait nowdays.

good you got your money back, but the time and energy you spent on this crap is gone forever.

chalk it up to experience.

mikeny59

November 29th, 2004, 14:27

Yeah Beez, I was in a bind. Labor day weekend, no second vehicle, I knew something was up in the fuel system when there was no pressure in the schrader valve on the fi rail.

Four years earlier I dropped the tank to replace the filter, then eventually added the skid plate and a hitch. I got it down to a science now, I at least want an accurate reading from the sender, gotta make a decision soon.

Remember when I called you on the phone when I had the t-case split while it was still in the jeep? Damn needle bearings were falling all over the place, I think you said use grease to hold them in, it worked like a charm. Messing with that whole planetary gear thing, the tc chain, boy did I thought I got in way over my head. You definitely decranked me and helped me get it back together, though I still was worrying if the tc pump was still connected to the tube. 90k later, nothing grenaded.

But I still have 4.10's, a trutrac and an auburn sitting in my garage, three years now, with definitely NO motivation to farm it out, and not enough confidence to try it myself. I'm saving for a down payment on a house, so a second vehicle is just a dream.

Take care Beezil.

Mike #300