Tell me I got hosed...(long, but worth it)

... so I can take action.

Scenario: Quarter of a tank according to gauge, '98 sputters and dies. I'm crankin' and crankin' with two Optimas, no go.

I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere, have to rely on a tow to get me to this guy who did my ds, but I don't trust him too much. Leave xj, calls me up, tells me the fuel gauge went bad, I was really on empty, and my ten minutes worth of crankin' burnt out the fuel pump.

I pick up the jeep, look underneath, the skid plate and all the fasteners I undercoated years ago do not look disturbed, but my fingernail easily removes the undercoating from boltheads holding the skidplate on. I go back asking to see the old pump, the guy starts b*&$ing and moaning that it's buried in the dumpster, makes a feeble attempt to find it but can't, nor the box it came in. I mention the undercoating, his helper says he just undercoated it as part of a "full quality" job, or something to that effect. That's why it came off so easy.

Then I ask about a warranty, first he says no such think on electrical parts, but he'll do me a favor and give me 30 days. Also could not produce receipt, says he signs for all parts on a monthly basis. He does mention that all the bolts I installed when I did the skidplate had antiseize on them, which they did, and I did find the b+ clamp disconnnected form the backup Optima under the hood, which also suggests that someone disconnected the juice to work on the jeep.

The guy's a real fast talker, I think in NY it's a law that you must get your old parts back.

Any suggestions? The fuel gauge is indeed totally inacurate, this incident is the first time it happened. Then I'm wondering why he didn't try to sell me a new sender unit.

I know it's after the fact, any suggestions what I might/should do? I'd hate to think I'm driving around on the old fuel pump, let alone the $ I'm out.

Thanks,

Mike in ny, member #300

just one more reason to work on your own junk.

sounds like you got hosed.

I've never heard of fuel pumps going bad from cranking too much... just starters. Aren't fuel pumps always pumping at the same rate... whether you're starting or running???
Billy

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.


Dan

Anyone who has years of driving under their belt has had something similar to this happen to them.

There are several things you can do. More things you should do. And several things you need to do.

Need to do:
For your own piece of mind. This is a really cheap lesson that is not worth getting stressed about. Do not let it **** you off, change your attitude, or negatively affect your mind/body.

Should do:
Tell eveyone you know not to use this person/shop in the future. Call the better business beauro and report him. find out what the law is with regard to getting your parts, and warranty, etc. If it is the law, take him to small claims court and get your money back.

In reality:
probably not worth the time and effort of court, or finding out the law and acting on it. Never leave a car in the shop in the future without talking with the mechanic about keeping the old parts, and understanding what they are going to do and when (as well as an estimate of costs).

The best we can do is all learn from our experiences.
I wish that my similar experiences were just a fuel pump!! I also wish that I only had 1 simlar experience!!

Michael

2xtreme said:

Anyone who has years of driving under their belt has had something similar to this happen to them.

There are several things you can do. More things you should do. And several things you need to do.

Need to do:
For your own piece of mind. This is a really cheap lesson that is not worth getting stressed about. Do not let it **** you off, change your attitude, or negatively affect your mind/body.

Should do:
Tell eveyone you know not to use this person/shop in the future. Call the better business beauro and report him. find out what the law is with regard to getting your parts, and warranty, etc. If it is the law, take him to small claims court and get your money back.

In reality:
probably not worth the time and effort of court, or finding out the law and acting on it. Never leave a car in the shop in the future without talking with the mechanic about keeping the old parts, and understanding what they are going to do and when (as well as an estimate of costs).

The best we can do is all learn from our experiences.
I wish that my similar experiences were just a fuel pump!! I also wish that I only had 1 simlar experience!!

Michael

Click to expand...

You better find out exactly what happened before you go bad mouthing, calling BBB and threatening lawsuits. Bad word of mouth can ruin a small business faster than good word will make it prosper. I don't necessarily think he was hosed, merely by the fact that he did not know the pump and sender are the same part and what is involved with replacement of the part. But you know as well as I do at this point....maybe he should talk to the mechanic instead of the 'Fast Talkin' New Yorker.

Dan

Dan Turner said:

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.


Dan

Click to expand...

OK, but the guy did say that he took the skid off and then sprayed underbody coating over it again.
Billy

Talk to the parts place the shop sourced the pump from. The burden of proof should be on the shoulders of the shop, so he should have no problem with you speaking with the supplier. He should also give you at least a 6/6K warranty on the part. That's pretty much a minimum repair industry standard. I deal with shops all day as a part of my job.

Also, look at the fuel tank near the supply line. He would've had to remove the assembly from the tank. It should be obvious if that's been worked on/and or replaced.

Third, running out of fuel is a very common way to destroy an electric fuel pump (no matter what manufacturer).

While everyone is correct about the pump and the sender unit being one piece, I'm pretty sure on the 98 you have to drop the tank to get to it.

"Tell me you got HOSED?" You got Hosed.

In most states you have every right to get your parts back. Once it exceeds a certian amount the shop is obligated to inform you of how much more it will cost. In Wa the limit is over $100.00.

But your in NY. Big suprise you'd get screwd there.

Dan Turner said:

If the tank was indeed empty, you would have burned up the pump. You dont have to remove the skid or tank to change the pump. The pump and sender are one unit....modular replacement.

Click to expand...

I'll admit off the bat that I haven't changed the pump on a '98; however I seem to recall that the tank needs to be dropped to get at the sender/pump/filter assembly in that year and all 97+ XJs. Right? the pump is in-tank and cooled by fuel surrounding it. Running on 'E' will burn it up.

As for 'getting hosed' it certainly does sound shady. Were the boltheads coated the same as the rest of the underside? If he recoated it there should be a distinct difference in shade or consistency.

I dropped the tank at about 50k to change the filter attached to the pump - even though the fas says I believe that the filter does not need servicing, at least at that low a mileage.

The shop isn't listed in the the bbb's database. If he could just show proof of the part purchase, I'd be happy. I have no idea which local Chrylser/Jeep dealer he got it from. I am chummy with the local Jepp parts guys, I'll see what list is on the unit. He did tell me my cost for the part was $340, charged me $150 labor before realizing I had an aftermarket (C4X4) bumber, factory skid plate, and hitch, then said he should have charged me more, but didn't, when he saw all the crap surrounding the tank.

If the sender is part of the unit, while is the fuel reading still bad? Maybe the gauge is the culprit?

I have not done anything legal wise, as usual I did pay with amex in case I decided to dispute the job. We did get into a screaming match when I asked him to show me the old pump or the invoice. Many years ago when I was a mechanic's helper, we saved a copy of everything that was delivered to our shop, even a stinkin' set of lug nut studs and bolts.

Thanks so far for the responses.


Mike #300

hey I looked up the list price for the fuel pump and its $295. He should be able to show you the old pump or at least a reciept for the new one. I have worked a at shop and every parth that was brought there needed to be signed for so there should be some proof. Also the tank does need to be dropped to replace the pump. As for them respraying undercoating back underneither your rig I cant imagine a shop that cant even come up with a reciept would go the extra mile to respray underneith.

1. NO shop is on a " We'll send you your bill at the end of the month. " Every parts guy generates a receipt so that when the part is delivered, it is signed for to prove that the customer received it. No signature on the bill why should he pay it ?? He either has a receipt for the part, or he's lying.

2. Most dealerships in the towns I've seen RARELY let 2 similar dealers compete with the same brands. ( 2 chev dealers, kia, toyota.) Because it's not good for the Car Companys themselves having 2 guys trying to undercut each other that close together. You may have a couple of jeep dealers in your area, but not more than that.

" tell me I've been hosed." YOU'VE BEEN HOSED.

Dan Turner said:

You better find out exactly what happened before you go bad mouthing, calling BBB and threatening lawsuits. Bad word of mouth can ruin a small business faster than good word will make it prosper. Dan

Click to expand...

Just to make it clear. I agree 100% Dan. You have to be sure before you impact his reputation or legal pursuit.

The mechanic should have the used parts and or proof of the parts that he put in his truck. If you can not show proof that you put a part in the truck then he should not pay for it.

I hate bad mouthing mechanics (most are very good) but the bad/ignorant few really give them a bad name.

At the end of the day, make sure we all learn from this.

Michael

He may have put in a junk yard part or something he had laying around?

ask for the parts first. in CA every work order has a little line covering the return of old parts and if you ask for them it is law that they keep them to give to you when the work is done... but you have to ask before any work is performed. if the guy wouldn't show you the old part, don't go back. he doesn't seem to want your business...or any of your friends or relatives for that matter. jusy my opinion, but from the way you tell it he sounds like an ass. 2%

First off there is no way you can get a 97+ fuel pump out with out dropping the tank. I spent a half hour with mine up on a lift trying to see if it was an easy fix and no way could I even touch the thing. The 97, 98 and I imagine some 99's had a crummy sending unit on the fuel pump, the resistor stuff comes off and it gives bad readings, the other issue was the plugs behind the dash board, they get loose and corroded causing the gauges to all drop to -0- and the air bag light to come on. 97's had a recall on this fuel pump sending unit problem, 98's did not but mine was built in 97 and I *KNOW* that they used one of the old pumps in my jeep. 98's had the plugs under a TSB not a recall so I got the short end on that one but what I did was remove the dash, clean the plugs and pins then put it back together again.
If you bought and paid for a OEM jeep fuel pump it should also have come with a warranty of some sort.
Now, if all he did was dump 5 gallons of gas in and fire it up and it ran then bent you over be prepared for that pump to go, they DO NOT like being run dry, the older XJ's, 96 I think and older pumped fule up to the fuel rail and back again cooling the pump. The newer ones did away with that and now cycle the fuel inside the pump to keep it cool. Thru experience with other vehicles you may get away 2 or 3 times running out of gas but each time there is cumulative damage to the pump, those babies freakin RUN and move alot of fuel. Just my .02....

I downloaded the form from NY DMV to file a complaint, I just want to see a receipt from the day he installed it. It was towed on a Friday and he called me first thing in the morning Saturday to pick it up.

I've not discussed this situation with anyone but here on the forum, so his rep hasn't been affected either way.

Like I said before, I dropped the tank at 50k to change the screen/filter on the pump, and again, he said that the bad reading that still exists on the gauge is probably due to a bad gauge.

I appreciate all the differing points of view, though my profile says I've been a member a short time, i've been posting on and off since at least '98 when I bough my Classic. I've lways been treated right here.

Mike/NY #300

Decided to drop the tank this weekend to see exactly if anything's been disturbed that would indicate the job was done.

Two Jeep parts departments told me they don't normally stock the part, but can usually get it in one day. My xj broke down on the Friday before labor day weekend, the parts guy I deal with said he did not sell one that day, the other wouldn't tell me if one was sold that day.

Can any Chrysler dealer (non jeep) order the part? Even if they could, what are the chances that they would even stock it?

After I drop the skidplate/hitch, etc... and if I discover that the pump wasn't replaced, I'm going to see if amex will credit my account while the dmv complaint is processed. NYSDMV gives 3k miles or 3 months to file a complaint.

Thanks


Mike #300

Might want to have a witness there or videotape the thing as you do it. Just an idea.