3link wishbone or single Triangulated 4link rear? ideas, pics.

Im thinking 3 link wish bone, upper links seperated at 45 degrees welded together at the axle end, rubber bushings at the frame ends, one huge 1.25in Spherical bearing above the axle. Lowers would run outside the frame rails, have rubber at the frame ends and 3/4in Spherical bearings at the axle ends.

Besides having more adjustability, why would I want to do a upper trinagulated 4 link?

I know the wishbone top link will side load the big Spherical bearing but those are HUGE, any other issues between the two?

I got this junk for free and want to use it.

ashmanjeepxj said:

I got this junk for free and want to use it.

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funny!

but seriously, how long are you planning on ahving your links?

one ton and I have worked out a link geometry to include loonnng links....

what do you have room for?

Beezil said:

funny!

but seriously, how long are you planning on ahving your links?

one ton and I have worked out a link geometry to include loonnng links....

what do you have room for?

Click to expand...

Yea I noticed that after positng, No Im not gonna use those stock arms, but I do plan to use the "FREE" rubber bushings. Room? Tell me where to cut.

The upper links I want them to mount inside the frame rails and I want about 45 degrees between them. I havent measure yet but that pretty much determins the resulting length. There height is vearable, I can run them through the floor board. My X-brace is right there any ways, I could run a tube acrossed the bottom of my X to get a higher frame end mount for the upper arms. Would help with roll axis and all that jazz. These coils I plan to mount on top of the axle under the frame, should be about 5in taller then now so the upper link should never hit the raised gas tank. Rear axle in factory location.

The lower links length will depend on afew things. I give priority to clearance over rear steer (length issues). I was looking at yours and your lower links mount above mid axle. Thats good for clearance, and so is a bent lower link, but both would have higher stess on the links, over a shorter straight link setup that attaches flush with the bottom of the axle tube. I want to mount the lower links outside the frame, this helps clearance but hurts the angle and would cause more "lift". I dont want an anti swat war...

Those jeep coils will be fairly stiff, so antiswat is just about a non issue IMO. I helped do a single triangulated 4link on the back of my friends 4runner buggy, with XJ coils. We calculated a really high anti squat 110-120 range and it has no visable lift with these coils. Its has worlds more traction them my XJ leafs do



So why did you do a triangulated 4link over a 3 link wishbone? I see it costing me one more Spherical bearing, one more axle end mount to fabricate, one more bolt, and more varables to adjust.

The upper links I want them to mount inside the frame rails and I want about 45 degrees between them. I havent measure yet but that pretty much determins the resulting length. There height is vearable, I can run them through the floor board. My X-brace is right there any ways, I could run a tube acrossed the bottom of my X to get a higher frame end mount for the upper arms. Would help with roll axis and all that jazz. These coils I plan to mount on top of the axle under the frame, should be about 5in taller then now so the upper link should never hit the raised gas tank. Rear axle in factory location.

The uppers will be pretty short with an angle that steep. Pinion dive may be an issue with articulation.

The lower links length will depend on afew things. I give priority to clearance over rear steer (length issues). I was looking at yours and your lower links mount above mid axle. Thats good for clearance, and so is a bent lower link, but both would have higher stess on the links, over a shorter straight link setup that attaches flush with the bottom of the axle tube. I want to mount the lower links outside the frame, this helps clearance but hurts the angle and would cause more "lift". I dont want an anti swat war...


Link length will also affect roll axis and roll center. I know you do not want an AS debate, but by your description, your AS may be over 200%, which will cause the rear to hop, especially when cllimbing.


Those jeep coils will be fairly stiff, so antiswat is just about a non issue IMO. I helped do a single triangulated 4link on the back of my friends 4runner buggy, with XJ coils. We calculated a really high anti squat 110-120 range and it has no visable lift with these coils. Its has worlds more traction them my XJ leafs do

What coils are those? They appear to be stock TJ or XJ coils. I got over 12" of lift with stock XJ's and 11" with TJ's. Also, they may be a little softer than you think.


So why did you do a triangulated 4link over a 3 link wishbone? I see it costing me one more Spherical bearing, one more axle end mount to fabricate, one more bolt, and more varables to adjust.

A double tringulated 4 link will be easier to keep the roll axis flat, and lower AS. I only triangulated the uppers as well, with the lowers angled in 5" each. At full articulation, I have ~4" of axle steer. I hindsight, I would have done the full double triangulated links, primarily for the flatter roll axis. My calculated AS is around 85%. All four links are ~40". Let me know if you want more pics, but I'd look at Beezil's or One Ton's for a better way of linking.



-Jon

Kaczman said:

The uppers will be pretty short with an angle that steep. Pinion dive may be an issue with articulation.


Link length will also affect roll axis and roll center. I know you do not want an AS debate, but by your description, your AS may be over 200%, which will cause the rear to hop, especially when cllimbing.


What coils are those? They appear to be stock TJ or XJ coils. I got over 12" of lift with stock XJ's and 11" with TJ's. Also, they may be a little softer than you think.


A double tringulated 4 link will be easier to keep the roll axis flat, and lower AS. I only triangulated the uppers as well, with the lowers angled in 5" each. At full articulation, I have ~4" of axle steer. I hindsight, I would have done the full double triangulated links, primarily for the flatter roll axis. My calculated AS is around 85%. All four links are ~40". Let me know if you want more pics, but I'd look at Beezil's or One Ton's for a better way of linking.

-Jon

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45 degrees between the links where they jointed at the axle, not 90 degrees if that what you were thinking.
How wide is the inside of the frame? like 31in? If the links are 45 degrees between them each link will be 40in long... 31/(2*sin(22.5)) 40in long uppers isnt that short.. Yea if they were 90 degrees apart like I think you were thinking they would only be 15.5in long, that would be the length of the stock ones pictured that is not the case and we agree those are short ass links. I wont go with less then 45degrees between the links. thats my logic.

I havent seen that side view of Beezil's, It looks like it is under the frame, and its really long.

I have TJ coils.

Here is a picture of about how long Id like to make my lower links. I would make it bent, and gusset it at the bend, It would be 1/4in thick tube due to the strange side loading the bent link would cause. The angle woudl be alot different after the lift the coils will give.

Im guessing this link would be aobut 8-10in shorter then Beezils in that pic.

So why do a single triangulated 4 link over a 3 link wishbone?
Id do a single triangulated 4 link over a double triangulated 4 link cuase Id rather mount the lower links out side the frame to provide better clearance. Thats my priority.

ashmanjeepxj said:

45 degrees between the links where they jointed at the axle, not 90 degrees if that what you were thinking.
How wide is the inside of the frame? like 31in? If the links are 45 degrees between them each link will be 40in long... 31/(2*sin(22.5)) 40in long uppers isnt that short.. Yea if they were 90 degrees apart like I think you were thinking they would only be 15.5in long, that would be the length of the stock ones pictured that is not the case and we agree those are short ass links. I wont go with less then 45degrees between the links. thats my logic.

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Yup, brain fart. My lowers are 40" long are around 40 degrees.

-Jon

I just finished my rear coil conversion. I did a double triangulated 4 link with all links about 40" long. The lower meet the center of the axle tube. Drove it today and i'm very pleased. I used the 7.5" RE TJ rear coils and i net about 12 - 14" lift. I don't know how much exactly it is because there is no point to measure that hasn't changed over the years but i think it's more like 12".

I can post some pics if you want.

4 link

please post pix as I'm designing my setup and could use some ideas. Thanks!

XJoachim said:

I just finished my rear coil conversion. I did a double triangulated 4 link with all links about 40" long. The lower meet the center of the axle tube. Drove it today and i'm very pleased. I used the 7.5" RE TJ rear coils and i net about 12 - 14" lift. I don't know how much exactly it is because there is no point to measure that hasn't changed over the years but i think it's more like 12".

I can post some pics if you want.

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Yeah man... let's see 'em!

OK, here ya go:

This is the custom built crossmember which holds all 4 links




Here you see (if you are able to see it, sorry) the axle attachment points and the hoop that holds the upper center link.




Here is a shot from the right rear, it is not already painted and the coil isolators are still not in.

How much harder would it have been to make the bridge heim a double sheer. Id hate for that thing to break on the road.

csudman said:

How much harder would it have been to make the bridge heim a double sheer. Id hate for that thing to break on the road.

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What is double sheer again? When there is some sort of support on both sides of the heim?
Billy

I doubt that this thing will break. The links are 1.5" DOM 0.120" wall and the uppers are welded as one piece with the heim joint. The heims are rated 40.000 lbs and the bolts are all 12.9 strength which equals grade 8.

Well, I hope it works well for ya. I guess if it were me I'd would have done it differently. But hey, you did it and I havent yet. So go for it.

JeepFreak21 said:

What is double sheer again? When there is some sort of support on both sides of the heim?
Billy

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Prettu much, thats it. It allows the bolts load to be distributed through to surfaces rather than one.

You mean like the other heims are set up? I don't see that a 12.9 bolt should not hold that load. The hoop is 3/16" U-profile steel. But it's a good point, will think about it. :wave:

XJoachim said:

OK, here ya go:

Click to expand...

A lot of good Ideas, but I dont like the hoop over the axle, and I dont like your bolt Idea. As stated its mounted single sheer. Not good. If anything fails it will be this bolt. Why didnt you mount this joint with the bolt parellel to the ground? This joint as you mounted it will use it's misalignment for up and down travel and articulation, if you mounted it with the bolt parellel to the ground on up and down travel the joint would pivot on the bolt, and would only use misalignment on articulation. The bolt mounted parellel to the ground would also be easier to mount double sheer. I guess you mounted it that way cause the load on the joint "for axle locating" will not side load the joint....

What is that little triangle patch piece on the axle hoop?
I would tie your Axle hoop into the top of your axle, weld or bolt it. As it sits your top spherical bearing has like 8-10in of leverage on the bottom welds of the hoop.

Those are all 1.25in Sperical bearings? (heims)

first of all, that IS NOT a double-triagulated 4 link. that is a 3 link with a wishbone upper.

second, that rodend NEEDs to be in double-shear. it won't even be that hard, just do it.

third, the rodends on the lowers at the crossmember end are almost out of misalignment already, it will bind very quickly while flexing and possibly break the rodends

fourth, 1.5 .120wall will not hold up for the lowers if they EVER contact rocks

fifth, I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the wishbone is only connected at the very end, you really should but some more bracing in like an "A"

ashmanjeepxj said:

A lot of good Ideas, but I dont like the hoop over the axle, and I dont like your bolt Idea. As stated its mounted single sheer. Not good. If anything fails it will be this bolt. Why didnt you mount this joint with the bolt parellel to the ground? This joint as you mounted it will use it's misalignment for up and down travel and articulation, if you mounted it with the bolt parellel to the ground on up and down travel the joint would pivot on the bolt, and would only use misalignment on articulation. The bolt mounted parellel to the ground would also be easier to mount double sheer.

What is that little triangle patch piece on the axle hoop?
I would tie your Axle hoop into the top of your axle, weld or bolt it. As it sits your top spherical bearing has like 8-10in of leverage on the bottom welds of the hoop.

Those are all 1.25in Sperical bearings? (heims)

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the hoop worries me as well, but he does have the rodend in the right orientation, you want the bolt verticle on a 3 link because the rodend is controlling lateral movement of the axle and if the bolt is horizontal it places a side-load on the rodend that it is not at all designed for.

edit: still needs to be double-shear, though.

mad maXJ said:

the hoop worries me as well, but he does have the rodend in the right orientation, you want the bolt verticle on a 3 link because the rodend is controlling lateral movement of the axle and if the bolt is horizontal it places a side-load on the rodend that it is not at all designed for.

edit: still needs to be double-shear, though.

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yea I was still kinda "editing" my thoughs on that... makes sense.