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XJ 44's and Wagoneer 44's?

T

TB-XJ

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Missouri
What are the differences between these two axles if any? I am buying Dana 44's out of a Wagoneer to put under my XJ and I am wondering about strengths, weaknesses, and whether I am going to be able to use my stock drive shafts and stuff with these axles. Or do I need to get the drive shafts from a Wagoneer? Will they mate correctly or am I going to have to have custom driveshafts made?
 
Are you talking about a 1987 XJ Wagoneer, or a full-size Wagoneer (or FS Cherokee / Grand Wagoneer)?

The axle in an XJ Wagoneer is identical to an XJ axle because the XJ Waggy was an XJ. Same mechanicals, differnt trim.

The full-size is a different animal. It won't be a bolt-in. Spring pads and shock mounts will require fabrication. And the hubs will be 6-bolt hubs, so you'll need either different rims, adapters, or to re-drill the hubs to work with XJ rims.

Edit: Just noticed you used the plural. Front too? The full-size Cherokee/Wagoneer was leaf spring, so you'll have to either convert your XJ to leaves or do a bunch of fabrication on the axle for spring mounts and comtrol arms mounts. Interesting note: The kit that Rubicon Express sells to convert D44 front axles to the XJ will not work with Waggy D44s unless you modify it, because the Waggy D44 has an extension on the pumpkin for the leaf spring mount that gets in the way of the driver's side control arm bracket.
 
If you are comparing a rear XJ D44 to a late model SJ Wagoneer rear D44, I can mention a few differences as I have done this exact swap. First, the Waggy unit will be 6 bolt. Second, the Waggy unit has a larger end flange which is better for mounting stuff like disk brake caliper mounting brackets. Third, I had axle seal leaking problems in my XJ D44 over and over even after I switched to Moser custom shafts. I have disassembled the waggy unit a few times and the original seals still hold in the gear lube great! I really don't know why, but I'm a happy camper in this regard. The spring pads are spaced right, but you'll need shims or to remove, rotate, and reweld to get the pinion pointed at the driveshaft if that's what you are planning. Shock mounts will need to be changed, but you'll probably want to mount them even with the tubes anyway for clearance. Track width with factory SJ 7" rims was 58 inches if I recall correctly. I think that matches the XJ unit with factory XJ 7" rims. Pumpkin size is identical. Pinion offset might be slightly different, but is working out fine for me. Finding spare shafts is not as easy with the SJ unit, but it's easy to call Moser or Dutchman or whatever and order some alloy units. Jeff
 
TB-XJ said:
What are the differences between these two axles if any? I am buying Dana 44's out of a Wagoneer to put under my XJ and I am wondering about strengths, weaknesses, and whether I am going to be able to use my stock drive shafts and stuff with these axles. Or do I need to get the drive shafts from a Wagoneer? Will they mate correctly or am I going to have to have custom driveshafts made?
Click to expand...

wagoneer is a xj :)
 
Rufio said:
wagoneer is a xj :)
Click to expand...

depending on the year...

find me an 81 wagoneer - is that an xj?
 
I'm running the Waggy axles in my XJ. The rear 44 is a bit narrower than an XJ 44, but it bolts in with the factory spring perches from the waggy. You will need to make new shock mounts, though. You obviously have to get all the brackets welded onto the front 44. My factory front DS works great with 6" of lift and the 44. I highly recommend grinding and turning the knuckles to correct the castor. Any other questions, feel free to ask.

MIke
 
JnJ said:
THAT is the POINT he was making, there are old full size Waggys that are not XJs..........
Click to expand...
I guess I am a bit thick this afternoon. All I know is that at the moment, my SJ Waggy runs and my XJ Cherokee doesn't. LOL.
 
And an early 80s SJ uses an AMC20 rear axle, not a D44. The AMC20 that was used in the SJs were very strong. Not prone to any of the problems of other versions, like the weak 2 piece shaft or thin tubing that was used in the CJs, or the 2 piece shaft used in the cars. The AMC20 had a D60 sized pinion gear with 29 spline shafts, if you look hard enough, you can get a 33 spline upgrade (ARB or Detroit with custom shafts).
 
IdahoEagle said:
And an early 80s SJ uses an AMC20 rear axle, not a D44. The AMC20 that was used in the SJs were very strong. Not prone to any of the problems of other versions, like the weak 2 piece shaft or thin tubing that was used in the CJs, or the 2 piece shaft used in the cars. The AMC20 had a D60 sized pinion gear with 29 spline shafts, if you look hard enough, you can get a 33 spline upgrade (ARB or Detroit with custom shafts).
Click to expand...
Wrong, some waggy did/do indeed have D44 rearends.
 
I have "86 Grand Wag 44's under my MJ. There are also some waggy 44's with an off-set rear diff, and a vacume actuated front axle D/C, you don't want those. My '86 44's are non D/C front and a centered rear diff, which i think are the best for XJ's and MJ aplications. One really nice thing about the front D44 is the ability to put lock-out hubs on for about $70. They just bolt right on in about 15 min. As mentioned above the rear Waggy 44 is narrower, so I added some 1.5" spacers to fix the width. ive got 15x10 in steel wheels with 3.75" bs. I'm runnin' 38x14.50x15 TSL SX's with no rub. Right now, flex is limited by shocks, which are Rancho 9000's. Ride is great on the road too.

I opted to do a leaf spring front conversion, instead of keeping the coils, as it is less expensive. You will hear all kinds of debates on leaves and coils. I liked the coils in my XJ, I really like the leaves on the MJ. I don't hear all the poppin' and gronin' with the leaves as I did with the coils 5 link. I am also getting some really good flex out of the YJ 4" Skyjacker leaves. I also picked up some D44 knuckles from a Chevy (wrong side drop for us) to make a complete high steer set-up. I paid $50 bucks at a U-Pull for them. I paid another $30 bucks for two u-bolt D44 yokes instead of the strap style.

There are also D44 front waggy's with the rear 20 too. The rear 20 IS much stronger than the old CJ 20's, BUT you will be limited on gear ratios. I have 5:13's, with a rear full spool, and a front lock-rite.

I'm still using the stock D-shafts too.

Another nice thing about the Waggy swap, is the fact that your still all JEEP. Those full width Ford guy's can't say that...can they?

Forgive the tire ramp, but the front driver's tire is about 42"es off of the ground. I'm also using two XJ stock shakles per side in the rear to get a little more flex. The rear of the MJ is too light to get good flex without them. I'll have some real world off-road pics soon. I still have a rear main seal to replace, and an exhaust leak. Then it's AWN!!

100_1712.jpg
 
Last edited:
SJ Wagoneers DID use Dana 44s front and rear. I had one, a '79. My '81 SJ 2-Door had an AMC 20 rear w/Dana 44 front. They are much wider than XJ Wagoneers, which I have now. The "downsized" XJ Wagoneer started in 1984 when the Cherokees started. Not all XJ Waggys came with Dana 44s, I wish! If you can find one good luck!
 
Jeff 98XJ WI said:
Track width with factory SJ 7" rims was 58 inches if I recall correctly. I think that matches the XJ unit with factory XJ 7" rims.
Click to expand...

IdahoEagle said:
And an early 80s SJ uses an AMC20 rear axle, not a D44.
Click to expand...

barillms said:
They are much wider than XJ Wagoneers
Click to expand...

The SPOBI is strong within' this thread..........:laugh3:

Yes, waggy 44s are 58" WMS. But since the XJ WMS is 60.75" the waggy WILL be more narrow with a 7" wheel since thats what they ran too. The AMC 20 is only a guarantee with the J-Trucks after 1979. They switched from the 44 rears to 20s in 1980. However with the Wagoneer you will find both. Also, the actual vehicle body of an SJ is wider than an XJ, but the trac width is smaller, which is what this thread is in relation to.
 
Let's clear this up.

FSJ's..or SJ's are the full size jeeps.

THere are Wagoneers and Grand Wagoneers in the full size stable. From 1984+ the full size 'waggy's were referred to as Grand wagoneers. This is because the mid-size XJ's were available with a 'wagoneer' trim level that vaguely resembled the full sized Grand Wagoneers.

With that said up to 1979-'80ish the full size wagoneers (or grands) came with D-44's front and rear. From 1980ish thru 1986ish they had D-44 fronts and MOST had the Amc-20 rear and it is much more desireable than the CJ AMC-20. You can also find (RARE) the same AMC-20 as the SJ's had with 1 piece axles in some MJ's...but I have only seen 1.

From 1987+ the Grand wagoneers had D-44's front and rear. From 1987-89 you can get a D-44 in the rear of XJ's with 1987 being the most common.

Differences are: full size axles are 6 lug and about an inch or so narrower than the XJ axles. Beyond that the differences are minor as most aftermarket companies who sell disc brake kits sell for BOTh the XJ and SJ D-44's. AND the gear/locker options are identical.
If you get D-44's from a J-truck OR a full size 'cherokee' from 1976+ they have the wide track axles and will be wider than the XJ but I'm not sure quite how much.
 
okay, this has been interesting. i knew SJs had narrow axles, but i thought they were closer to the XJ than what has been stated. what i didn't know is that FSJs came with d44 rear axles. what i am still not sure of but i think i'm gathering is that FSJs use the same rear spring perch width as XJs. is that right? if so than the only step left is fabbing the shock mounts and maybe some driveshaft shortening. or are the SJs spring under? i am compfused now :).

there is tons of conflicting info all over the net on this stuff. what i have heard most consitently is: wagoneer front axle 60.75, rear axle 58.5, wide track cherokees are ~65 front and rear and the trucks are ~65 front and ~63 rear. the trucks have different perch widths. the wagoneers and chrokees have the same perch widths as smaller cherokees. and this one i thought was weird: the front is spring under and the rear is spring over?

i think i should go wide track front and rear!
 
Actually the perches may be different throughout different years on the full size waggy's.

I know this because we recently put a D-44 from an '89 grand wagoneer into an XJ and the perches were a little over at an inch closer together than the XJ perches. WHile it worked...if it had been my jeep I would not have done it like this as the leaf springs are bowed in and that can't be good.

And just FYI the rear wagoneer D-44's are spring over. IF anyone is interested though the fronts are spring under.
 
If your looking for a direct bolt in another thing to consider is gear ratio. Most 4.0l auto xj's are going to have 3.55. I'm regearing soon so I'm gonna pull the axels off a 90 grand waggy with gears in the 2's and have them redone. If i was doing a swap for just strength and not regearing i'd be looking more into xj's
 
91 Jeep Project said:
The SPOBI is strong within' this thread..........:laugh3:

Yes, waggy 44s are 58" WMS. But since the XJ WMS is 60.75" the waggy WILL be more narrow with a 7" wheel since thats what they ran too. The AMC 20 is only a guarantee with the J-Trucks after 1979. They switched from the 44 rears to 20s in 1980. However with the Wagoneer you will find both. Also, the actual vehicle body of an SJ is wider than an XJ, but the trac width is smaller, which is what this thread is in relation to.
Click to expand...

Don't include my post as SPOBI! The measurements I took off two XJ rear axles, WMS to WMS, was 60.25." However, with a factory 7" rim with around 5" of backspacing, the TRACK WIDTH comes out to about 58.5". The '89 Grand Waggy D44 rear that I started with used 7" rims with 3.5" backspacing, so the TRACK WIDTH is the same as the WMS to WMS distance which was right around 58.5". Take a look at my D44 swap article for the exact measurements I had taken way back when. http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/JAfrontD44arb/FrontD44arb.htm Also, from that article, my measurements showed a spring pad to spring pad center distance of 43.5" on the '89 Grand Waggy D44 which matched the XJ axles. Jeff
 
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