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Hmmmm, Camber off.....Way Off......

Ghost

Ghost

Member Number 257
NAXJA Member
Location
Hartsville, South Carolina
Ok so I went and got the new old rims mounted on my tires yesterday. And asked them to do an alighnment. When I went to pick it up the guy said uhhhh you need off set ball joints! I think I just need a set of Lower control arms. AM I right? The Camber for the LF is -2.25 and the RF is -2.75! Or is my understanding of camber wrong?
 
Caster is what's adjustible by the control arms.

think of them stupid ricers w/ big dumb wings, cut springs and tires tilting in at the top, that's camber.

camber is non-adjustible except for replacing the balljoints w/ offset ones BUT!! if your alignment is toed out, it can make the camber appear screwed up.

I'd check the unit bearings and balljoints for any play. I had a unit bearing start coming apart and it appeared as though the camber was WAY off (hell, check them 36mm nuts and make sure they're tight!)
 
He said the Ball joints were fine. If my 3" LCA are short want it lean the axle forward and affect Camber? The unit bearings are they inside the hub?
 
In my '98 FSM, the camber range specs are as follows:

Preferred: -0.25
Range: -0.75 to .50

Yours do not appear to fall into that range :shrug:

Ivan
 
Intresting.. The specs in my 87 FSM are set to 0 ok range -1/2deg to +1/2deg

Yea definately out of range! So how to fix? Unit bearings seems to be the vote so far.... Now where to get them cheap!
 
Ghost,

You most likely have bent the front housing.

If your unibearings/hub were that bad they would have fallen apart by now or would be making some real noises. This would suprise me if it corrects it.

If you have not had any diff/axle problems related to a bent housing then the cheapest and easiest way would be to use offset ball joints to fix it. My housing is at +1.1 and +.75 caster and I won't mess with ball joints unless it get worst. Your numbers are in a situation you a really seeing by eye that the tires are leaning way in at the top or atleast should beable to.

But new housing or offset ball joints are the two way to fix it in you case.

mark
 
Yea one of my jeep friends said the same. But then why does it look ok some times? How can I check for a bent housing? Level?
 
One of the checks for the housing is the alignment.

Your wheels have to be straight to see the camber. Toe will also affect the look of the camber. Too much toe in will make it appear you have to much camber sometimes.

The only real way to check for a straight or bent housing is to empty it and run a string thru it and take measurements. Not easy so at that point you just have a new/used housing ready to go back together.

If all you are concerned with is the alignment part, put off set ball joints in it and you'll be good to go.

mark
 
Unit bearings in my 85 went out, causing the camber to drastically shift....don't know the exact measurement, but they were WAY [read:visually scary] out, and still 'working'.
 
myjeepsbigger said:
Unit bearings in my 85 went out, causing the camber to drastically shift....don't know the exact measurement, but they were WAY [read:visually scary] out, and still 'working'.
Click to expand...

No noise, grinding or shaking from the bearings? Only went to the alignment shop and found the bearings bad?

Just curious, I've never seen it and just want to understand how they can work without other symptoms and be that damaged/worn out.

mark
 
Mark is right...... if the hubs have gone that far, you should be getting ugly handling and knocks, squeals, rattles, etc.

Easy check for the hubs: jack up the Jeep so the tire is off the ground. Grab the wheel at 3 and 9 o'clock and try to wiggle it back and forth. Also try 6 and 12. A bad hub should move at both, bad ball joints will usually only move at 6 and 12.

I've had a couple of truly scary hubs on mine. You should notice something if they're gone.
 
Well it does not squeel or screech and no wobble or wiggle in the stering either. The tires do not move at the 12 and 6 oclock test but do move some at the 3 and 9 ockock. But I think that is more of a moving TRE than anything else. I know where I can get some cheap axles so I may get one and swap it out to see if that is the problem. If not I'll pull the hubs on this one and rebuild it. So untill then I don't get to drive my toy much. But what puzzles me is some times I look at it and the wheels are straight and at others they are way off like now.

By the way this jeep sees very little road time right now. I put about 100 miles on it this weekend but that was the first time driving it in the last 6 months.
 
Last edited:
Mark Hinkley said:
No noise, grinding or shaking from the bearings? Only went to the alignment shop and found the bearings bad?

Just curious, I've never seen it and just want to understand how they can work without other symptoms and be that damaged/worn out.

mark
Click to expand...
Actually, believe it or not there was no grinding. And I didn't take it to an alignment shop....my junk is way beyond what they can fix....hehe.

Seriously, though, it looked like the wheels were about read to fall slap off of this thing....but really no grinding. It might have clunked once in a while, but I don't think I can decern one clunk from the other in this thing.
 
Also, I did rebuild my hub assemblies. You may be able to, as well, on an '84...that is if you have the patience to do it. Some guys think it's worth the couple extra bucks to just buy replacements. I managed to rebuild both of mine for about $75 for bearings, races, and all the seals. But, I purchased them at wholesale....Cash sale at the parts store may be higher.

You don't really need a press or anything special to do it either. I found a neat way to disassemble the thing with a two (or three) arm puller and a vise. The first one went kind of slow, but I did the second one in less than an hour, start to finish.
 
Also when you start rotating you axle to adust for pinion angle and such caster and camber will change due to simple geomitry. I gave up and just got rid of the 30 and a hp 44 is going in.
 
So useing 3" LCA and stock UCA with 5.5" of lift could affect the camber to some degree? Could it account for maybe 1deg?
 
My 2000 has the same problem (almost the exact same amount off), and it only has 40k on it, and has never been in a situation to bend the tubes on the axle. Only thing I can figure is it was screwed from the factory.
 
Control arms cannot effect camber. Camber is how the wheels lean from side to side. Castor is is the angle of the line between the ball joints from the vertical.
How I picture it is thusly, lame but it works.
Camber: as is off camber, leaning to the side.
Castor: as is casting a lure, front or back.
As has been said, camber is only affected by the physical shape of the axle. Get a new axle, it's only a d-30 they are a dime a dozen, or get the adjustable balljoints.

Fred
 
when i went to get my front gears done at MIT i recieved a call later in the day. it was them telling me i had a bent front axle. they said it would cost 150 to have the axle dissambeled and straightened and put back together. so i had them do it and it made a big difference to where i had to reset my alignment after i got it back. i heard that the disco 30 is weak and now i believe it.
 
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