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Fuel Shut off valve.

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Hey guys i want to install a fuel shut off valve on the fuel line as an anit theft device. I am planning on putting the valve right under the driver seat (thats where i think the line is). My question is what size is the line in O.D(outer diameter)? My other question is how far or how long will the engine still run with the amount of fuel in the line up to the driver seat? any info on this matter would be great. Thanks
 
The fuel line is on the driver's side, but it's under the body alongside the uniframe rail. Looks like the same as the brake line, 5/16" I think.

It won't run at all with a valve closed. No pressure to the injectors.
 
Rather than breaking the fuel line, why not put a "kill switch" in series with the fuel pump? Two advantages to this...

1) Safer. You aren't breaking the fuel path and creating possible additional leak paths...

2) Concealability. Finding a fuel line is pretty easy, and you can spot a switch in a fuel line without even trying. You can tap a wiring loom, make it look like it belongs there, and hide the switch anywhere you please.

You can also put a kill switch in line with the ignition module low-voltage supply, and have a similar result - or even use both if you are so inclined...

Just my two cents' worth...

5-90
 
Thats a great idea but....

Thats a good idea. But i don't quite get how to do that. Do you mean to just splice the wires for the fuel pump and put a switch on it to shut off power to the pump? Now are the wires accessable to me or do i have to remove a bunch of thigns? The idea sounds greta but i have a few questions on how to execute. so any info would be great. thanks
 
More fun is to put a switch in series with the fuel pump ballast resistor. The engine starts, runs for a few seconds then quits. Try again and the same thing happens. Makes people think it is busted not just a cut off switch. On the older Cherokees, its mounted on the driver's side fender well and has two wires.

This is a nasty trick to pull on your buddies, pull the wire and unless they are a mechanic, it will baffle them. I pull mine when I park overnight at the airport.

Tom Houston
 
I'm probably going to get griped at, but I'm going to gently suggest that this is a mod you aren't prepared to handle apparently. I assumed that you had some idea of what you were planning on with your first post, I don't think so anymore. 5-90's points on safety are well-taken.

Re: a fuel shut off valve. The line is under ~40 PSI during operation. The line itself is pretty obvious, so either you don't know what you're looking for, or you haven't even looked.

Re: fuel pump power. You've got a bunch of options here. The simplest would be to just pull the fuel pump relay out of the wiring center under the hood. Another option would be to splice a switch into the trigger circuit on the fuel pump relay (note, not on the power side of the relay.) If you installed the switch inside the passenger compartment, it'd take 2 wires into the engine bay, and 2 splices somewhere near the wiring center. Where the splices go is somewhat up to you, you'll want to look up the wiring schematics in the Factory Service Manual.

Are you planning on using this as a daily kill switch? Make sure you get a switch rated for thousands of operating cycles. Or as something you'll do in an airport parking lot once a year?
 
well....

Well out here at my college a lot of cars are being stolen thesse last two months. I need something that i can use as a real theft device other then my alarm. It will be used almost as a daily basis. the only reason i brought up the valve was because i read it at another post. but you guys are right, it is going to be real obvious to find. I am going to just splice the power for the fuel pump and put a quality switch on it.
 
Re: well....

[email][email protected][/email] said:
Well out here at my college a lot of cars are being stolen thesse last two months. I need something that i can use as a real theft device other then my alarm. It will be used almost as a daily basis. the only reason i brought up the valve was because i read it at another post. but you guys are right, it is going to be real obvious to find. I am going to just splice the power for the fuel pump and put a quality switch on it.

Okay, that makes sense.

A couple of thoughts....First of all, what year (and engine) XJ do you have?

I wouldn't splice the switch into the power side of the pump, that's a 30A MaxiFused circuit. I don't know exactly what the usual draw is from the fuel pump, but it is substantial. Splice into the trigger line into the relay, there is a lot less power there.

See http://www.partsexpress.com/resources/relays.html for some info on relays.

BTW, if you're having trouble on campus, whatever you do needs to be a non-obvious action. Opening the hood and adjusting something on the right side is a dead giveaway of a kill system.

Hmmmm........ if your alarm has switched outputs........... you could wire up a relay across the trigger of the fuel pump relay so that if the alarm is armed, it won't run.

Good luck...... that's part of campus life I DO NOT MISS AT ALL.
 
I don't think....

i don't think that hooking it up to the alarm as a relay would work. YOu see my alarm when set off won't let the car start. So in order to start the car they would have to rewire the alarm taking it out of the loop which i would think would also take out the relay attached to the fuel pump. Right? i think the best and least obvious would be to have a switch mounted someplace hidden inside the cab that i could activate.
 
Kick switch man, under the dash stashed just right.

I'd personally throw it up ON TOP of a wire loom, then when you want to start you nudge the loom (which in turn hits the swtich). The only thing with this idea is you have to figure it out...Basically you'll need a momentary switch, so some sort of clever relay action or something is needed.

Basically, the reason I say a foot switch is so that people can't see you switching it, you know?

Sequoia
 
Re: I don't think....

[email][email protected][/email] said:
i don't think that hooking it up to the alarm as a relay would work. YOu see my alarm when set off won't let the car start. So in order to start the car they would have to rewire the alarm taking it out of the loop which i would think would also take out the relay attached to the fuel pump. Right? i think the best and least obvious would be to have a switch mounted someplace hidden inside the cab that i could activate.

Not all alarms are set up to defeat the ignition (although, they should be.)

As far as "taking out" the fuel pump relay when disabling your alarm, I have no idea. It all depends on exactly how the alarm is wired up.
 
Yeah - a basic alarm isn't worth a damn, since all they do is annoy people. I like to set them off in parking garages with my exhaust leak...

However, something a little more proactive (like a kill switch) is a better idea. Considering some of the areas I've had to work, I've gone so far as to have hidden but accessible kill switches for the fuel and spark, and turning the key to "start" does nothing, AND I've gone so far as to rebuild the ignition switch wiring loom so all the wires are the same colour and size. I've known when someone was trying to steal my truck on a whim because I'd catch them in the seat when I came out...

You can't stop a determined car thief, but you can make life Hell for joyriders and impulse takers with a little creative thinking... As stated, make sure it's something you can hit without being obvious, or something abstruse enough no-one will take the time to figure it out (this is where logic gates can be fun...)

5-90
 
one more question....

What about also incorporating into the fuel pump relay a kill switch for the coil. So maybe have one kill switch for the fuel pump and another setup similar for the coil. My question is which wires would i tap into for the coil? Would it just be the simples wires attached the the coil or is there a better and more intellegent place to tap into it? I know its a bit overkill to have one kill switch for the fuel pump and one for the coil but hey, its better then losing your Jeep. Thanks
 
Using relays to shorten the path for the power and the kill switch is a good idea, but you have to watch where you tap in.

You can use a relay and break the fuel pump circuit pretty much anywhere - make sure the connexions are sound and protected, and covered from casual view.

For the ignition circuit, you don't want to break the leads to the coil. Look for the power lead into the ignition module, and interrupt that. I don't have any of my schematics handy, but there should be a power lead that can easily be switched on and off - but I'd still use a relay to break the circuit rather than running back and forth thru the switch (always keep your power paths as short as you can get away with...)

5-90
 
Ok, $310 for stock NSS (nutuarel safty switch) was way to much to spend, so I spliced the 2 wires on the switch that allow for the starter to work. It effected the idle control and cruise crontrol. So I went and got a momentary contact switch and spliced that in. When the NSS decides not to work, just push the momentary contact while turning key.

If one was to cut the 2 wires on the NSS that control the ground for the starter, and wired in a MC switch. It would have to be pressed in EACH time it was started, and if it was a KICK type like sugested before, it would be perferct. Hot wired, busted ignition, it wont start with out the starter relay working. :rolleyes:, a thought.
 
here's a good one to look at.
fb421f91.jpg


The World's Best DIY ImmobiliserBuild your own car immobiliser that is simple, cheap and very, very effective.
By Adrian Cuesta
If wiring up a couple of relays doesn't worry you and you can handle a soldering iron and a multimeter, this immobiliser is for you.
You only need a:
· 12 volt heavy duty car relay;
· 12 volt Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) relay;
· 12 volt flashing LED;
· reed switch that closes when a magnet is nearby;
· pushbutton that opens when pushed;
· broken remote from a car alarm;
· and a magnet.
Most of these bits and pieces you can get from an electronics shop.
Like all immobilisers, this one shuts down the car's EFI or ignition system. But what's different about ours is that if the thief steals your keys (with the remote control attached), he still can't drive away with your car. That makes it just about unique!
So how does it work?

The guts of the remote transmitter case are removed and the magnet is placed inside. The circular magnet from a tiny speaker has been used here. When you enter the car, you casually swipe the transmitter case past a special place within the car's cabin. This place might be on the centre console, a part of the dashboard - pretty well anywhere. Hidden behind the area that you swipe is the reed switch - a switch that is sensitive to magnetic fields. The swiping triggers the reed switch that in turn switches off the immobiliser.

Because the reed switch is located behind the plastic of the dash or centre console, there's nothing to see. The swiping movement can be quite natural - part of your hand movement as you put on your seatbelt or settle yourself in the seat. That means that even if a potential thief is watching you closely, he doesn't get any clues.The remote (at right) triggers the reed switch (left) whenever it comes close. Only you know the location of the reed switch!

When you want to arm the immobiliser, you press the button. The pushbutton can be in complete view - the thief gains nothing by ripping it out and either disconnecting the wires or bridging them. When you press the button, the on-dash LED starts to flash, indicating the car is now immobilised. It also reminds you to switch off the system when you re-enter the car.
The Circuit

The diagram shows the circuit that is used.
When this DPDT relay is not pulled-in (ie has no voltage applied to the coil), it connects the LED to 12 volts, causing it to flash. At the same time it also stops power flow to the heavy-duty automotive relay, in turn disabling a vital car starting circuit. The car won't start - the immobiliser is activated. Disconnecting the car battery switches off the flashing LED but makes no difference to the position of the DPDT relay. (Note that the LED is polarised and so must be connected the right way.)

You want to go somewhere, so you swipe past the open reed switch with your transmitter case. This momentarily closes the reed switch, allowing power to flow through the DPDT relay's coil. It pulls in, with the second coil power supply path through the top contact causing it to latch - that is, stay pulled in, even after the reed switch has opened. The bottom contact of the DPDT relay then feeds power to the heavy-duty relay, causing it to pull in and complete the car starting circuit.

You drive to your chosen location and want to disable the car. A single push of the normally closed pushbutton breaks the latching circuit of the DPDT relay, causing the relay to open. In turn, this stops the power feed to the automotive relay, and so it also opens, disabling the car. The LED starts to flash showing the immobiliser is set.
Installation
The system can be installed in three separate parts: the DPDT relay, the heavy duty automotive relay, and the reed and pushbutton switches. We mounted the DPDT relay in a 35mm film canister. The relay that we used fitted neatly into the canister, with the wiring passing through a hole drilled in the cap. The canister was mounted under the dash within the wiring loom.

The heavy-duty 12 volt relay should be mounted close to where you break the vital starting circuit. A number of different approaches can be used. In an older car, inserting the relay in the low tension ignition coil power feed will prevent the car starting, as will open-circuiting the ignition key starting signal to the starter motor solenoid. However, if you do the latter, the car can still be "jump started" - not what's wanted!. If there are high current fusible links used for different circuits, it's easy to keep pulling the links until the car is as dead as a doornail and then wire the relay to open this circuit.
Finally, if your car has an electric fuel pump, the immobiliser can disable this. However, note that both EFI and carby cars will still start and run for a short period even with the fuel pump stopped. This might be just enough time for the thief to drive to the middle of the nearest major road intersection before the car dies!
The 'arming' pushbutton can be mounted anywhere on the dash. Note that if this button is accidentally pressed while you are driving along, the engine will immediately stop. Thus you should mount it where accidental activation is impossible.
The location of the reed switch is very important. It should not be awkward to access when you are seated and should also not be so close to the ignition switch that the immobiliser is disabled by the thief without him realising it! Its location is best picked when you are seated in the car. Attach the reed switch to the inside of the plastic panel using a smear of Liquid Nails or similar adhesive.
The most complex part of the system is the wiring of the DPDT relay. We built the complete system on the bench so that we could easily check that everything worked. With the system mocked up, the flashing LED should work as soon as power is connected. Swiping the hand control past the reed switch should switch off the LED, causing the DPDT and heavy-duty relays to click. Pressing the button should cause the relays to again click and the LED to start flashing.
Once the system is operating on the bench, you can install it in the car


scot
 
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