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trail rig and dana 60s

S

shizza-my-nizza

NAXJA Member #671
Location
Westminster, MD
After wheeling in Moab with my daily driver 01 xj that only has some very minor body dammage I decided that I need to build another xj for a trail only rig. Currently I am in the process of buying a 95 with some accident dammage that will be chopped off and reinforced with a cage. I want run the 4.0, aw4, 231 combo and was thinking 44 front 60 rear. If I do that I will find a 79 f250 and have at it. Then I got thinking dual 60s. If I decide on dual 60s what donar truck should I be looking for? I am going to keep the axles full width and plan on running 37" or 38" tires. should I just go for a 44f 60r or dual 60s? TIA, Eric
 
azxjman said:
You arent going to want to run the np231 with that combo dana 60 and 39s
Click to expand...

can you explain? (im not saying your wrong, im really wondering.)

i am gettin ready for some parts swaping in my jeep and dont wanna waste my time trying to keep the 231.
 
well if I really make some good money this winter I may buy an atlas let's just say 231 as a worst case scenereo. but do you guys think a 44/60 combo will be adequate for 38's? Does anyone know of a truck that has a high pinnion drivers drop 60? TIA, Eric
 
Yes.

I ran a heavier vehicle with 38s and a 44 front, but you have to wheel it nice.

With CTM u-joints and alloy shafts (which you can get later after you break - which you will) I'd say a 44 and 38s is fine.

I run a front 60 and 38.5s. If I drove it different, it'd be fine too..... but I don't, so I need the 60.

60 w/ 35 spline stubs is piece of mind. You know you're done busting shafts.
A front 60 is also more than a front 44 and rear 60 combined.
If you can a Ford front 60 for under $1200 you're getting a deal.

Some late model Dodges (post '94) front 60s will also work, but they're all VAD and some (I think mostly the 1 tons) have some goofy hub dealy that prevents you from going to 35 spline stubs and you're stuck with the 30 spline (same dia as a 44).
 
To me a 60 is damn near worthless in the rear. Way too heavy & it takes some effort to go to 35 spline. I'd much rather stay with a 9". A stock rear 60 will be about the same strength has a stock 31 spline 9". It's easier to upgrade to 35 spline shafts on the 9" & the steel housing is easier to fab on. Did I mention better clearance under the diff? It's only downfall is the low pinion, but this hasn't posed a problem for me. Now if you're going to order a high pinion 60 from terra than everything I just said is thrown out the window. I'm comparring stock to stock.

Matt
 
Greg, so unless I plan on dropping some serious coin I should go 44 front. I am trying to build this rig on the fairly cheap side. If I buy an atlas there goes that idea. But I don't mind puting some money into a strong drivetrain. I know I can't afford a front dynatrack 60 . Looking more and more like I will be going the F250 route and upgrading shafts. On a side note It was good to meet you and be able to see your rig in moab. anyone else have any good ideas?
 
Matt, Not enough money for that kind of custom stuff. I need to work from stock stuff and learn a lot of new fab skills.
 
shizza-my-nizza said:
well if I really make some good money this winter I may buy an atlas let's just say 231 as a worst case scenereo. but do you guys think a 44/60 combo will be adequate for 38's? Does anyone know of a truck that has a high pinnion drivers drop 60? TIA, Eric
Click to expand...

Yeah, a '79 F250. :)

Under 8500 GVW has a D44, over 8500 GVW has a HP D60. Fact is the only thing that comes with a HP D60 is an F250 or F350. Early models had king pin 60's and later models come with unit bearings and ball joints.

If you want to go cheap, find that rare F250/350 that hasn't been discovered yet and use the axles full width without changing the gears. Remember you'll have 30 spline stub shafts in the front 60, and 30 spline shafts in the rear 60, but it can last depending on how you use it. To get 35 spline axles takes $$$. One step up from that, and still cheap, is to find a 14 bolt for the rear. You'll end up with some major heavy drivetrain, but if you want to run 38's reliably you have to get some beef.

A 231 t-case with a heavy duty 31 spline output shaft is not a bad way to go, plenty are running them with large tires. But, if you start to upgrade the 231 with a 31 spline SYE, a 2low kit, and 4 to 1 kit, you're approaching the cost of an Atlas.
 
Thanks Richard, also great to meet you. I guess I have some searching to do at the local yards. As far as t-cases go I was doing the math and basicly came to the same conclusion for 231 upgraded vs Atlas. That is why I have not ruled an atlas out. Later, Eric
 
You arent going to want to run the np231 with that combo dana 60 and 39s
Click to expand...

aw jeezuz, there you go again....

go ahead and explain yourself, see if you can do a better job web wheeling out of this hole....the other hole you dug for yourself pretty much swallowed you.

I run 37's with 5.38's powered through a 231....

We already know you don't know the benefits of GEAR REDUCTION, but its my 5.38's that allow the 231 to be an adequate transfercase. Sure, I wish I had the money for an atlas.....some day I'll get one.

in the meantime kid, stick with what you know, try not to make blanket statements. You might be able to pass yourself off as a top dog on JU, but its not gonna work here.
 
You arent going to want to run the np231 with that combo dana 60 and 39s
Click to expand...

You do realize that T-cases are rated on INPUT torque, right?

Have you ever seen a manufacturer like New Process rate a T-case by tire size?

CRASH
 
I guess my 242 can't handle 38's either. I best stop wheelin' then.

The 60 vs. 9" is way overplayed. If you don't want your tractor getttin' traction, then let your driveshaft hang you up :D Otherwise, go 60. Of course, you could find a SF 60 and then the stock vs. stock gets blown waaayyyyyy out of proportion.
 
shiz, while i cannot argue with farmermatts suggestions, i mean, how can you? the axle he is suggesting is a damn good axle, however, I think you'd be quite happy, if you could be lucky enough to find a 1979 ford f250 44 front 60 rear. If you like what farmermatt is saying, at least try to grab the front axle...
 
Going front 60 is all about money. I searched for a long time trying to find the killer deal on a Ford front 60. Never found it.

If you find it, take it.
Chances are way better at getting a front 44 though. And as I said, a front 44 all on it's own is good. Go alloys and CTMs and it's great - not 60 strength but still very strong. Another advantage of the 44 front compared to the 60 is the clearance. My front 60 is like a plow with 38.5s.

I won't engage in the 9 inch arguement..... well not much at least. The 9 inch rear is a great axle. It's only downfall, ONLY downfall, is the low pinion. I've run a few rear 9s and lived with that low pinion just fine though.
If you want to stay cheap for the rear and go beyond either the 30 spline 60 or 31 spline 9, then you need to look at the 14 bolt as Richard says. There is also a 33 spline semifloating 14 bolt which is smaller than the FF version and still a very strong axle.
 
c-rok, how come no shavin da 60 up front?

gotta shave it.

was wonering if you knew the difference in weight between am fs 44 and an fs 60?

just curious
 
Shave is good idea.

No good answer why I haven't done it yet; except my list of Jeep ToDos grows faster than it shrinks.

No idea on the actual weights. My only emperical, non-scientific, data on that is that I have a bare Chevy front 44 (knuckles off) that I can pick up and move around by myself with some effort. Like totally lift it up and carry around.

When I was moving my front 60 under my Jeep I had to drag it and scuttle it around on a floor jack. I nearly ruptured vertebras trying to pick up just one end of it. And this was the bare housing as well - knuckles off, no axles, carrier or gears.
My guess is there is probably over 200 lbs difference between the two.
 
Last edited:
Depends a lot on the axle. A 1979 1/4" tube RS 44 form a bronco or f-150 is considerably lighter than my 1972 1/2" tube RS 44.

i don't know how much mine weighs, but it's f-ing heavy. I can sling around an assembled 30 without a problem, and I can't budge a fully assembled 44.

CRASH
 
just another thought....

CJ D300 and chevy D60/14bolt combo.

shave the 14 bolt as much as you can, run a pass-drop front axle and go to town from there.

the chevy stuff can be found cheaper, and while it's not as bling as the HP ford center it would get the job done, and you'd end up w/ a transfer case that you can twin stick and get some noce extra ameneties with.

supposedly you can find the 14 bolt in a stock application w/ 4.56s and a detroit.

later on down the road, if you dump some $$ into the 60 front, you could swap the LP center section for a HP center section by retubing, or chopping & sleeving depending what tools you have access too. you can also rotate the knuckles and dial in your pinion/caster angles without having to compromise.

(Sean, Beez, anyone else see any problems w/ this idea? it's kinda what I'm lookin for.)
 
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