Wheelin' in Moab was a bit different. Questions.

Moab had quite a few aspects to it that were a bit new to me. One of the main things I noticed was all the ledges. On several occasions when dropping off of them, I came down on my RE Drop Brackets, and I came down hard on them.

Question is, if I was running long arms, that same ledge would have came up hard, right near the middle of the arms. The way the drop brackets are designed, where they hit, it's not on the arms at all, and all the force is reciprocated right up into the frame rails distributing it out. If it would have been the long arms, and the force was great enough, bendage, or breakage of a joint would happen for sure.

I understand the concept of having more clearance with the arms, thats for sure, but I came down hard, several times meaning they didn't "just barely hit". Two or three inches higher they still would have it. Are all the different typed of longarms out there both custom and mfg'ed just plain strong enough for such blows? Or are they often dammaged this way?


On a completely different subject, there was the whole deal with front ends "unloading" while going up such ledges when to much lift and/or too much flex up front was in the equasion. I guess that's a whole nother topic....

Where I wheel here in WA and ID, having as much flex as possible has always been an advantage, but in Moab I didn't see this to be the case at all.

Am I just thinking out loud?

Two thoughts!Alot of long arms are way higher than the drop brackets.Also your coming down on a fixed object carrying the weight of your vehicle where the long arm can move against the spring rate.

PhatXJ said:

Am I just thinking out loud?

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Yes. Dave + stick + dead horse = beating.

Just kidding homie. One thing that comes to mind is that the drop brackets seem to act as an anchor when you're dropping off ledges and such, as RCP said, they're lower than some long arm designs. Most long arms I've seen tend to "glide" once they make contact with the rock surface - not all, but some.

Econo, obviously any type of long arm discussion is beating a dead horse.

RCP, I guess I didn't think about the arm being able to move up on contact, that's a good point.

Like I said though, clearance isn't the issue. On the ledges I hit with my DB's, long arms would have it as well. For sure. Them being at an angle and not "hard mounted" like you said, would help a ton though.

I guess this is one place where it is an advantage to have the stock control arm configuration... I thought and thought about how you could be hitting the brackets and then I realized that in those same situations I am hitting the rock rails or the t-case skid because all of my suspension tucks up high.



I looks llike your drop brackets break drag links just as easily as my short arms when trying to climb out of the crack, too. That is about the only place that I thought they would have an advantage.

Dave,

as far as the unloading...some folks are beginning to run winch cables to the axles and winching the rigs nose down for that excact reason...The Safari Gard Buggy actually has a small winch mounted underneath just for that.

Like I said though, clearance isn't the issue. On the ledges I hit with my DB's, long arms would have it as well. For sure. Them being at an angle and not "hard mounted" like you said, would help a ton though.

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Like Handlebars said, I actually bought his unused set from this forum and resold them still unused, Iran 6.5" of lift on short arms with no drop brackets for many years and my ol XJ is still in that configuration with its new owner...he installed the DB's and then took em off siting them hanging him up on obstacles he glided over before.

Phat, I see your logic on the DB issue....one I've waffled on for a few years. Driving technique can also be a factor, some folks prefer to drop off a ledge at a slight angle, one tire at a time.

Well, I've never ever had an issue with then hanging me up on obstacles, and I've run tons of rocks. Clearance isn't the issue. It was just comming down hard on things is what scares me with longarms.

XJEEPER said:

Phat, I see your logic on the DB issue....one I've waffled on for a few years. Driving technique can also be a factor, some folks prefer to drop off a ledge at a slight angle, one tire at a time.

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Yup......it's got me thinking to

I tried the angle thing, seems to work in most applications.

You're right, flex won't get you too far in UTAH! Moab, Cedar City, St. George, Vernal - much of the territory is one continously long rock with steps, huge ledges, and cracks. You'll find more of the non-continous rock up in the wasatch mountains. Up there flex will help, but it's still similar to Moab territory.
In general, because there's always exceptions, large torque, horsepower, and knowing where to drive is the key. Flexing will come into play on certain areas, but if you don't have the torque or the correct line, you'll have some difficulties.
If you watch the UROC and other rockcrawling circuits you'll see what it's like. As far as the long arms, etc... try and take a look at what the UROC competitors do. It probably wont work for what you run in WA though. Just build another rig, that way you'll have a Utah rig and a WA rig. Can't beat having more.

PhatXJ said:

Well, I've never ever had an issue with then hanging me up on obstacles, and I've run tons of rocks. Clearance isn't the issue. It was just comming down hard on things is what scares me with longarms.

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Phat, I practically live in Moab and have never had this problem. It might be the way that mine are setup, but I've never come down that hard on my arms on anything like you mentioned. They've skidded over a few things (rarely) and taken a few beating otherwise, but no pure impact. Even while driving over boulders up to my rockers...



But that's why you make them strong. DOM & thick.

And flex... well. I think flex is over-rated. I run limiting straps up front to keep it kinda balanced.

RCP hit it on the head. The springs & shocks dampen the "hit" that they take & you slide down the rest. Yes the arms need to be strong & a smooth transition to the cross member is needed so you don't get hung up there, but from what I've seen most arms out there are stronger that DBs. Moab is a trip to say the least. What really got my goat the last time I was there was watching all this 3"-4.5" lifted rigs run up out of Mickeys hot tub & I couldn't make it out because my front end wanted to swap sides with the rear. This is the reason I put a center limit strap on my rig.

Matt

...hey, it's about time, pretty soon it will be in vogue to have short arms. It'll go full circle, just like bell bottoms. :woohoo:

There are a lot of advantages to sa's. Probably the best set-up is a mid arm, like Goatman's for example.

Guys are using straps connecting the mid axle to the frame (most likely a fabbed mounting point just above the axle mount). This way you can get the droop/stuff side to side, but it won't unload (both sides droop). I don't know what lenth of strap they're using, someone will chime in....

p.s. Farmer Matt just beat me to the post...

You SF boys just arn't vey quick are you.

Matt

All of that said, I put a slight bend in one of my .250 wall long arms in Tellico. Can't remember exactly what the obsticle was. It's still safe to drive on the road as the bend is so slight, but it will be upgraded to .375 wall tube soon.
I still love the long arms and will not go back to short because the ride is so much better.
BTW the front stock rubber bushing and the rear Johnny Joint are just fine.
mattk

I'm running drop brackets and 31s, and I don't remember coming down hard on them at all when I did Hell's Revenge or Kane Creek. The thing I remember hitting was the rear diff!
(Maybe Handlebars saw more than I did. He DID have a better "view"...)

I don't think hiting your DB's is your biggest problem

Don't Do Crack!

That's a different subject.

I learned a lot in Moab, and one was don't take the crack at that much of an angle. I was just doing what my spotter told me to do.

My original question about the long arms was answered when the point about the suspension taking the majority of the blow and then also being angled was mentioned. Thanks guys.

PhatXJ said:

That's a different subject.

I learned a lot in Moab, and one was don't take the crack at that much of an angle. I was just doing what my spotter told me to do.

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.....your spotter should be flogged about the face and neck region with a dead skunk

One tire size smaller and you'd have gotten a real closeup of the Crack... I've never driven a line like this............very much