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Starter Replacement

88trailcrawler

NAXJA Forum User
Location
OC SoCal
88 4.0 Auto 231

The starter is requiring the "love taps" more frequently. I figure IRS a pretty basic - go to Napa for a replacement and drop it in.

Thought I'd post up to see if there are any Naxja tips on part selection, upgrades or "while your at it" tips.
 
Taking the wires off the starter before dropping it is a pain. If you try to drop it without unhooking the wiring you run out of slack wire about halfway to your chest and end trying to take the wires off while holding the starter up in the air with one hand. I rerouted my wiring to get some extra slack, now the starter is a snap to remove and reinstall.

With the solenoid wire, you have to be careful when removing the nut and retightening. It is possible to over torque the nut on the stud and the stud may start to spin on you, which can turn ugly fast.

Now may be the time you learn why it is a bad idea to jump the battery to starter stud, with the solenoid stud, the threads sometimes melt. Then trying to force the nut off can spin the solenoid electric connection stud. Look closely, you may have to dress the threads (thread file) on the solenoid electrical stud or it can turn into a pain.

It's not rocket science, but taking your time, using a good flashlight and having the proper tools within reach before crawling under there can save you grief. I've done it in two feet of mud ;) which is not fun.
 
Why does Napa have 11 choices?

8 different remans and 3 different new.

In stock is standard reman. Is that good enough?

Is AZ Duralast to be avoided? It's cheaper with warranty.
 
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NAPA Prolink shows 11 choices... if you just search "starters". That includes switches. There are only 5 actual starter results. On my last XJ, I just went with the "new", not Bosch. The price difference between new and reman is not that great. BBB industries do there remans, and are pretty good quality.
Part # NNE 4N6273 is what I would use.

AZ does have a lifetime warranty, but it gets old changing starters often. YMMV.

Why does Napa have 11 choices?

8 different remans and 3 different new.

In stock is standard reman. Is that good enough?

Is AZ Duralast to be avoided? It's cheaper with warranty.
 
NAPA Prolink shows 11 choices... if you just search "starters". That includes switches. There are only 5 actual starter results. On my last XJ, I just went with the "new", not Bosch. The price difference between new and reman is not that great. BBB industries do there remans, and are pretty good quality.
Part # NNE 4N6273 is what I would use.

AZ does have a lifetime warranty, but it gets old changing starters often. YMMV.


What sort of problems were you having with the replacement starters?

These were new or rebuilt?

Bearings, solenoid, brushes, starter drive, etc.
 
I didn't have any. I worked there a while ago, and dealt with angry people that kept having to warranty rotating electrical.

What sort of problems were you having with the replacement starters?

These were new or rebuilt?

Bearings, solenoid, brushes, starter drive, etc.
 
I didn't have any. I worked there a while ago, and dealt with angry people that kept having to warranty rotating electrical.

I was wondering because after replacing an OE with a rebuilt I can't remember anything about the warranty or if it even has one.

Some of the OEs make it to over 200,000 miles. While others perhaps only ~150,000+ miles. I suppose the difference is how often the starter is used, length of cranking, battery power, hard starts, condition of wires for the starter, etc.
 
I was wondering because after replacing an OE with a rebuilt I can't remember anything about the warranty or if it even has one.

Some of the OEs make it to over 200,000 miles. While others perhaps only ~150,000+ miles. I suppose the difference is how often the starter is used, length of cranking, battery power, hard starts, condition of wires for the starter, etc.

I still have the 1987 original starter out of my first XJ. I've swapped out the brushes a few times.

The vast majority of the time a starter fails, is something to do with the brushes. Either fair wear and tear, covered in oil or packed with mud. Mud and sand packed into a starter can wear the brushes down pretty quickly.

I rebuilt starters for a local Jeep parts supplier, kind of a basement type operation. But we sent starters all over eastern Europe, Russia. the middle east and Africa. The Mitsubishi/Bosch starter is pretty darned well designed.

I rebuilt hundreds, the vast majority of failures were brushes. An occasional bearing, Bendix burr, shorted winding or overrunning clutch. I can't remember ever having to change a solenoid that wasn't physically damaged. I have found a few full of rust.

Many times most of the rebuild is cosmetic, clean it, paint it, a new set of brushes, a dab of grease and we're finished.

If you want the starter to last, remember the fifteen second rule, never crank it more than fifteen seconds, let it cool for a minute or two, then repeat if necessary. If the motor doesn't start after fifteen seconds cranking, save your starter and find the problem.

Used to be you could get a brush replacement kit for $ 12-15 last I looked it was up to $35. Two of the brushes come with a mounting plate, the other two are loose. You can make do with four loose brushes, but the two brushes on the mounting plate are a (minor) pain to change, you can save some bucks reusing the mounting plate, but the brush springs can get weak with age (and heat). They redesigned the bearings about the time Chrysler took over Jeep, which was an actual improvement and not a way to save a few pennies.
 
I'd also keep an eye on the bolts, you have a metric on the top and SAE for the bottom.

People have used the wrong bolts and messed up mounting the starter.
If the starter slips, out of position, it may still seem to work ok but later on you may find a damage flex plate ...

Sometimes the bolt hole on the rebuilt starters are damaged and need to be re-tapped.

Make certain both the upper and lower bolt is good and tight and the correct size ...

Upper bolt (not a through bolt)

OE (Metric) M10-1.5 x 28mm or a M10-1.5 x 30mm with a washer.

Lower bolt (through bolt)

SAE - 3/8-16 x 1 3/4" - (.375-16x1.75)
 
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When I replaced the starter on my 89, I went with "new" so there was no core. I kept it to "rebuild" it myself. There is no magic to starters, or alternators... so it will become a trail spare.
 
I rebuilt hundreds, the vast majority of failures were brushes. An occasional bearing, Bendix burr, shorted winding or overrunning clutch. I can't remember ever having to change a solenoid that wasn't physically damaged. I have found a few full of rust.

Many times most of the rebuild is cosmetic, clean it, paint it, a new set of brushes, a dab of grease and we're finished.

Used to be you could get a brush replacement kit for $ 12-15 last I looked it was up to $35. Two of the brushes come with a mounting plate, the other two are loose. You can make do with four loose brushes, but the two brushes on the mounting plate are a (minor) pain to change, you can save some bucks reusing the mounting plate, but the brush springs can get weak with age (and heat). They redesigned the bearings about the time Chrysler took over Jeep, which was an actual improvement and not a way to save a few pennies.

That's good information. I can remember rebuilding starters years ago, before computer controlled engines. The solenoid usually was first to go (It was quite common in those days, people often didn't run to an auto parts store, because there may have not been a parts store within 50+ miles) rather than replacing a starter it was usually pulled, the solenoid replaced if needed and the communtator cleaned with emery cloth and some sort of blade. The brushes were usually only replaced if needed ...

Some of the newer vehicles starters are running from $200.00 to over $300.00 ... and may only require a partial refurb. and cleaning.



checking-dynamo-brushes-and-commutator-2-226.jpg
 
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Where do you all buy brushes, bearings, solenoids, etc.? I'm perfectly capable of doing a "rattle can rebuild" myself, but the last few starters I've had to do I can't seem to find the parts. I also paid to have a 10SI alt rebuilt because I couldn't find a local source for a bearing and regulator kit. Useta be you could get them at Pep Boys for cheap... :(
 
Where do you all buy brushes, bearings, solenoids, etc.? I'm perfectly capable of doing a "rattle can rebuild" myself, but the last few starters I've had to do I can't seem to find the parts. I also paid to have a 10SI alt rebuilt because I couldn't find a local source for a bearing and regulator kit. Useta be you could get them at Pep Boys for cheap... :(

Here are some brushes that should work for starters between 87 - 98 ... you will need to look at the OEM and exchange numbers to make certain the replacement part will fit. There may be some variations ... ... try to match your starter part number or cross/exchange numbers with the replacement part(s). If unable you can try to measure and look for part specifications.

http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/54032709.html

One problem, if you are able to find replacement parts the total may close to the same as a re-manufactured. Solenoids can run around $25.00 each ... perhaps less .. re-builders purchase in bulk replacement parts may only cost them ~1/4 what a consumer might have to pay.
 
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NAPA Prolink shows 11 choices... if you just search "starters". That includes switches. There are only 5 actual starter results. On my last XJ, I just went with the "new", not Bosch. The price difference between new and reman is not that great. BBB industries do there remans, and are pretty good quality.
Part # NNE 4N6273 is what I would use.

AZ does have a lifetime warranty, but it gets old changing starters often. YMMV.


Actually, my Napa search shows 11 different starter options.

Thanks for the part number. It is showing $91.49.

I found a NEW Remy/Delco on Rock Auto for $59.99 - Might go with that since I have time to wait for shipping.

Remy/Delco (GM) reviews seem good.


Mudzz - Thanks for the insight on the bolts. Should save me some time and hassle on the replacement.

Glenn B - Good tip. I am going to go new and clean up the old one for a spare.
 
Where do you all buy brushes, bearings, solenoids, etc.? I'm perfectly capable of doing a "rattle can rebuild" myself, but the last few starters I've had to do I can't seem to find the parts. I also paid to have a 10SI alt rebuilt because I couldn't find a local source for a bearing and regulator kit. Useta be you could get them at Pep Boys for cheap... :(

The brushes are on Amazon, cheap they are not. 8350 3670 (83503670) for the two brushes and 8350 3671 (83593671) for the other two brushes and the mounting plate (brush holder assembly).
 
Where do you all buy brushes, bearings, solenoids, etc.? I'm perfectly capable of doing a "rattle can rebuild" myself, but the last few starters I've had to do I can't seem to find the parts. I also paid to have a 10SI alt rebuilt because I couldn't find a local source for a bearing and regulator kit. Useta be you could get them at Pep Boys for cheap... :(

Starters Alternators that may interchange may have different internal components.

You can search using your OE or afternarket part number. These number should interchange with other starter part & reference numbers.

Some vendors use vehicle year and model while other use starter part numbers ... some may use both.

I might call or e-mail a vendor with a starter number to make certain it is the correct part for the starter. Or to determine if parts are available for a particular starter unit.

Here is another brush holder ... shows it is for 1987-2000 Jeep Cherokee XJ 4.0L 6 Cyl ... there is no information that the brush holder fits a particular starter.

http://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-17228-07-Starter-Brush-Holder/dp/B000FQ03T2

http://www.amazon.com/Omix-Ada-17228-06-Starter-Brush-Set/dp/B003KRBGT4/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2

http://www.jeep4x4center.com/starter-brush-holder-4-2l-or-4-0l-6-cylinder-83503671.html

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/densoparts.html
 
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