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?FUEL SYS PROBLEM??

jovian

NAXJA Forum User
Location
longmont, co
Symptoms: Died on highway after sputtering. Felt like it ran out of gas but was not out of gas. Fuel rail schrader valve always squirted gas. After tow home, after XJ sits overnight, when starting, runs for about 5 seconds then dies. Replaced dist. cap & rotor. Start for about 5 seconds and dies. Replaced coil, runs for about 5 seconds and dies. After about 3 start tries, then won't run or sputter at all, until next day. Thinking it is fuel related??? even though there is fuel in fuel rail?

Question(s) are:
How to diagnose fuel pump vs fuel regulator problem? I have a spare fuel pump. Can i connect spare pump to FRONT of fuel rail, drop pump in gas can and connect 12v and try start?

How to test fuel regulator?
How to disconnect fuel regulator? (It is vacuum actuated).

Thanks for your help! Vic
 
What year, motor??????

my guess will be the more common CPS... crank position sensor... do a search on here for crank position sensor and you will get more info then i can type in this little box.....lol
 
for S&G's unplug and plug in the CPS connector a few times.. Sometimes the connection will cause it to not work

There is a white rectangular resister on the drivers side fender with 1 wire on each end. Bypass the resister by connecting the two wires together and see what happens. Most of us bypass and get rid of that resister anyways. lol

When you turn the key to the on position do you hear the fuel pump go on for a couple seconds?
 
Fuel pump ballast resistor, inside fender well drivers side, ceramic block maybe two inches long. Jump it and give it another try. One of those nice but not really necessary parts. Power to the fuel pump bypasses the resistor when cranking (key in start position), then when the key goes to the run position through the resistor.
 
When i turn the key on, i do hear the fuel pump. And seems to be lots of fuel rail pressure - gas squirting from schrader valve on fuel rail (only when center pin is depressed :wierd: )

Always wondered what that ceramic resistor was for!
 
Last edited:
It could be the ELECTRICAL portion of the ignition switch--located down low on the steering column. They work loose and then the remote rod from the lock cylinder can't properly align the switch to the different key positions.

Also, as said, the fuel pump relay is bypassed while cranking--power direct from the starter--so your fuel pump relay could be the problem.

And the ballast resistor--kind of like MOOBS--they exist, but aren't really good for anything.
 
Check in the following order:

Check for fuel at the vacuum line connected to the fuel pressure regulator. Any fuel there means the FPR is bad and flooding the engine.

Press the gas peddle and hold at WOT while cranking until it starts, to dry out a flooded engine.

Pull the spark plugs and check them.

Primary high voltage wire or secondary wires arcing? Inspect while cranking in the dark, for signs of arcing to ground, bad insulation.

Jump the white ballast resistor to the fuel pump with a jumper wire, or test the resistor with an ohm meter. It is the run line for the fuel pump, and is bypassed while cranking.

CPS maybe going bad.

IAC maybe sticking.
 
  • I bypassed the ceramic ballast resistor.

  • I have replaced the CPS, with new.

  • I have swapped the coil/ignition module, with used one, from my Comanche pickup, which runs.

  • I have replaced the dist. cap & rotor.

  • I have recharged the yellow top optima battery.

  • When i crank engine, it cranks fast (good elect. connection to battery).

  • I swapped out the 4 relays. (i had 1 spare relay. One at a time, i swapped a relay with the spare).

  • No gas leaking on the vacuum connection end of the fuel regulator.
This is how it is currently behaving, after i installed the new CPS: The first thing in the morning, the first two times i try and start, it runs smooth for 3 to 5 seconds then dies. From then on, (until the next morning) it just cranks over and will not run or sputter at all.

I don't have a fuel pressure gauge. Can i borrow one from an auto parts store?

Next i am going to replace my fuel filter with a section of hose (bypass the filter).

WHAT DO YOU THINK??? :helpme:
 
Check in the following order:

Check for fuel at the vacuum line connected to the fuel pressure regulator. Any fuel there means the FPR is bad and flooding the engine.

Press the gas peddle and hold at WOT while cranking until it starts, to dry out a flooded engine.

Pull the spark plugs and check them.

Primary high voltage wire or secondary wires arcing? Inspect while cranking in the dark, for signs of arcing to ground, bad insulation.

Jump the white ballast resistor to the fuel pump with a jumper wire, or test the resistor with an ohm meter. It is the run line for the fuel pump, and is bypassed while cranking.

CPS maybe going bad.

IAC maybe sticking.

Plug off the vacuum line for the EGR. Tap the EGR lightly with a screw driver handle (don't dent it), if it is stuck open a little jarring will usually allow the spring to seat the valve.

Completely disconnect the ballast resistor and jump the two wires together, they can short through the back if the housing is damaged (happened to me).

Volt test the fuel pump wires at the resistor jumped connection, 1, while cranking and 2, when the motor starts before it stalls. Check the voltage again in the rear near the pump while cranking and while the motor is running before it stalls again. At least five connectors and a splice between the resistor and the fuel pump.

The orange/black wire at the starter relay is a straight shot to the fuel pump, around the fuel pump relay and the ballast resistor, except for the five connectors and a splice. You can disconnect that wire from the starter relay and jump it straight to power and do a volt test from there and another all the way in the back at the fuel pump plug to test all those connectors. You can actually get good voltage and a connector can still be bad or making a poor connection.

The CPS is a long shot IMO, if it was marginal the motor likely wouldn't start, BUT, I have had them start then had the CPS mess up as it heated up. As a long shot I'd do an ohm test from the CPS pigtail all the way to the ECU. Be careful with the ECU connectors, the pins have a tendency to back out of the holder when you mess with them. The wiring and connectors between the CPS and the ECU has a history of weakening the pulse signal from the CPS and making for intermittent problems.

I'm really not much on swapping out parts and hoping to get lucky. I almost always test the part, sensor or whatever then the wiring and connectors before I swap out anything. I usually see a Jeep after the other mechanics have failed and have learned to systemically and thoroughly test a whole system (components, wiring and connectors) before moving on to the next system, if it was easy it would already be fixed.:)

I'm guessing fuel, but it may be something else, either the CPS pulse gets weak, a sensor screws up and causes the ECU to open the relays or some connection is bad. If it isn't the usual suspects it is something exotic.

A fuel pump pressure and volume test is probably a wise thing to do.

You have to understand the systems, the CPS pulses at start up, if the ECU doesn't get a good pulse it shuts off the fuel and spark. So you can get low (no) fuel pressure and it has nothing to do with the fuel pump, filter or whatever. The ECU primes the fuel rail when the key goes from off through run to start, so you can get initial fuel pressure ( a fuel rail prime), but when the key goes back to the run position you need a good pulse from the CPS for the ECU to keep the fuel pump relay closed. During cranking the fuel pump gets power straight from the starter relay, then when the motor is running (good CPS pulse) the ECU closes the fuel pump relay and fuel pump power comes from there, through the ballast resistor.

A word to the wise, don't get fixated on components and ignore the wiring and connectors, understand the system some before you start. Some of it is cause and effect and you can guesstimate what the problem is. Most times a systematic approach works best and any shortcuts in the step by step process and you are likely to miss the cause and have to start all over again. Or worse yet, build more problems into the system while trying to find the original problem.

It is really easy to screw up a brittle 20 year old plastic connector and/or back a pin out of a connector as you are reconnecting it. Most Jeep connectors give me fits anyway, it seems most were supplied by the lowest bidder and most every one has a different and unique patented latching tab that is almost impossible to see or figure out how to open.:)
 
Great advise 8mud!!!!

Really sounds like fuel problem. The odd part is the needing an entire day before it will try to start again.

OP, did you try cranking it while it holding the gas peddle to the floor, WOT?

If the engine is flooded (stuck open, leaking injectors), it will tell the ECU to not open the injectors while cranking and dry out the flooded engine. Give a good 2-3, 10-15 second cranks to see it fires up after the first morning start of 3-5 seconds.
 
Today, I will work on proper fuel pump operation (pressure about 40 and flow rate about 1 liter/min?).

The fuel supply to the fuel rail, Is that at the front or rear of the rail?
 
It was the fuel pump!

I did a lot of useless troubleshooting, because i didn't want to drop the gas tank if i didn't have to - replaced the CPS, swapped out the throttle body.

Thank for everyone's help - i learned alot:cheers:

Vic
 
So it was working long enough for you rule it out, then quitting for a day?
 
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