No Start, No Start Several other PO Issues

I got back into another '94 4 door, actually the same color scheme as my last one(red/black Sport). The specs are a 4.0, AW4, 242, D30, 8.25. The Jeep only has 165k on the odo, which is about what my last one had. Since my DD car is on the fritz, I am needing to get this beast running. I have $375 into it($400 as of today's junkyard run). The vehicle will not start with the key. I have bypassed that by use of a starter switch under the hood. I can get it to crank, but I believe the fuel pump isn't doing its initial prime that you hear when you first turn the key to the "on" position. I got a JY NSS that I will be cleaning and rebuilding for part of this. I have to get a gallon of gas to put some down the TB to see if it is getting spark. If that occurs and I get spark, what should be my next course of action, along with replacing the NSS? I have a Genuine Chrysler FSM as well as a Haynes Manual for this, but the FSM isn't too specific to this issue. I am also going to put about 5 gallons of fuel into the tank, but after I had added some gas to it when I first brought it home, the low fuel light was on, and it didn't appear to have much if any gas even in the tank. Thoughts and or discussions here. I don't have a whole lot of time to get it done, but I can do whatever necessary to make the repairs, as I need a winter time work vehicle, otherwise I get to be forced to use one of my Scouts for the winter till I can replace the car with this spring's tax return check.

Jeff

Does not crank, no fuel probably, no spark how about a security system on it. Or a security key. Does it crank in neutral? Did it work good on the trip home? Starting fluid works better down the throttle body also. Pull the coil wire at the dist and crank it to see if youve got spark. No fuel and no spark are signs of a bad crankshaft position sensor. the no crank is NSS. You could have TWO seperate problems at once. So prove spark or not first.
Ron

I will take care of the spark no spark issue and report back. That and the fact that I know the NSS is an issue(could just need to be repositioned), I first want to hear it run. We tow dollied it home due to the not starting issue. I feel it has good compression, but once i know that it it hitting with spark, I should feel a bit more confident in how to approach the repairs. I also looked at the No Start FAQ, and it also has provided some insight into what other things to check out and see what is/isn't working quite right. I am almost there. Thanks for the ideas/insight MayPop.

Jeff

Ok. Got it cranking, apparently there are now two problems. First, no pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel rail. I have to determine if its the relay or the actual pump. Second, squirting some starting fluid down the throttle body, I get nothing. It doesn't even hint at starting. With this done, now where to go? The Jeep doesn't appear to have a security system on it, so I think we can rule that one out. The PO told me his mechanic thought that the starter relay and or the fuel pump were out. I am not getting the typical fuel pump sound you would hear, but I will be checking the pump at the connections to see what I have there. The no spark is where I want to concentrate my efforts now.

Jeff

Update. I went to the parts store today to get new plugs, a cap and rotor, wires and the return line for the PS. I also picked up another plug wire tester. I am gonna pull the plugs and confirm the engine condition a little further. The parts store manager indicated he has seen more customers replacing the cam sensor under the distributor more frequently than the Crank Position sensor. That unit is only $37 vs $64. The Jeep needs the wires, cap and rotor replaced anyways, so I am gonna do this as part of the PM anyways. I am charging the battery so that I can get the maximum juice out of it to finish the diagnosis. What is the consensus on the cam vs crank sensor? Once I can determine I have spark, then I will tackle the fuel issue, as I may have to replace the pump. I was gonna be tuning it up and changing a few things, as I am also going to need some advice on achieving 20+ mpg. I plan on doing a Throttle body spacer, and a FIPK. Thoughts or recommendations on ignition and or exhaust upgrades?

Jeff

Note from DJ
Look over this post for info o CPS
Crankshaft Position Sensor Connector (CPS/CKP) test for HO 1991 - 2001
Will turn over, but won't start?
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1062496
--------------------------------
Look over for how to check the CPS/CKP
99XJ How to Test the (CMP) Camshaft Position Sensor
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1003757&page=2

Test procedure provided by Tim_MN in post # 17
--------------------------------

Checking Fuel Pump Procedure
No power to your fuel pump (check fuses and relays) or your fuel pump is shot.

I would first hot wire the fuel pump, there is an electrical connector on the drivers side near the gas tank, should have three wires to it, hopefully there is a smaller gauge wire on it like mine this is for the sender, so ignore it. Run a pair of long wires from battery to the connector, one to the + side of the battery and one to the - side of the battery (black preferably) to the black wire of connector, the other color to the probably orange wire of connector to positive side of battery.

On your 1994 Jeep Cherokee 2WD 4.0L MFI , the Fuel Filter is located: Under vehicle, driver side, below rear seating area, front of fuel tank, mounted on chassis in fuel line

FUEL DELIVERY
Power to fuel pump relay is supplied from ignition switch when in "ON" or "START" position, at which time the ECU supplies a ground for fuel pump relay. When relay contacts are closed, power is applied to fuel pump.
Fuel is drawn through one end of a roller-type electric fuel pump, compressed and forced out opposite end.
Pump capacity is greater than maximum engine consumption so that pressure in fuel system is always maintained.

From Go Jeep
http://jeepgarage.free.fr/OWN/fuel%20injection%20system%20multipoint.pdf

Fuel System Test
WARNING: Always relieve residual fuel pressure in fuel delivery system before opening system. To prevent chance of personal injury, cover fittings with shop towel while disconnecting fittings.

1) Remove cap from pressure test port located in fuel rail. See Fig. 3. Connect Fuel Pressure Gauge (J-34730-1) to pressure fitting.

2) Start vehicle. Pressure should be approximately 31 psi (2.1 kg/cm) with vacuum hose connected to pressure regulator and 39 psi (2.6 kg/cm) with vacuum hose removed from pressure regulator.

3) Check fuel pump flow rate by pinch off fuel return line. Run fuel pump by placing jumper wire between terminals "D1-5" and "D1-6" of diagnostic connector "D1". If fuel flow is less than one quart or (1L) in one minute, inspect fuel system for a plugged fuel filter or filter sock.
If above items check out OK fuel pump will need to be replaced.

Remove hose and install test port plug.

4) Fuel pump flow rate can be checked by connecting one end of an old A/C gauge hose to fuel test port on fuel rail and inserting other end of hose into a container of at least one liter or more capacity.

5) Run fuel pump by installing a jumper wire into diagnostic connector terminals D1-5 and D1-6. Be sure to pinch off fuel return line or most of fuel will be returned to fuel tank.


I hope this info helps
Pay close attention to this statement; Power to fuel pump relay is supplied from ignition switch when in "ON" or "START" position, at which time the ECU supplies a ground for fuel pump relay. When relay contacts are closed, power is applied to fuel pump.

In other words if there is no 12V leaving the ignition switch in the start position you will have a no crank situation as well as no fuel pump running problem.

Please keep us posted as to your progress.

Checked it this morning. No spark. I will test the CPS to verify that it shows resistance. If it does I guess the CPS is the culprit. My last XJ never had this problem while I owned it, and I got it with 185k, with a replacement engine installed at 150k. I sold it at 229k, with no starting issues, except for likely a bad NSS, also which is a culprit here, but I have a spare that I am going to rebuild, and then I can eliminate that as why I can't currently use the key to start it. I thank those who have posted to this point. As I learn more myself, I too will help pass information along to the others that otherwise don't have all their stuff.

Jeff

Local dealership here quoted me a price of $70 for a CPS. They were the only dealership open on Saturday. I will call one that is only about 5 miles from the house and see what they want for it. The one that was open is about 40 miles from the house, and with the Camry only getting like 20mpg right now, its not economical to go that far to save a few bucks. I will report back once I get spark if its getting fuel or not, and then we will go from there.

Jeff

ASD relay doesn't close and you won't get any spark. The dark green/orange wire to the coil should power up when the ASD relay closes. ASD relay won't close if the PCM doesn't get a pulse signal (cranking or running) from the CPS.

Other reasons for the ASD relay not to close, but the CPS is the more common one.

Fuel pump relay will close for a few seconds when the key is turned to run or start, to purge/pressure the fuel rail. The fuel pump rely won't close and stay closed unless the ASD relay is closed.

The more likely scenario is you have a flaky neutral safety switch or bad starter brushes, or oil soaked starter brushes. And a bad CPS.

Could be something at the ignition switch or possibly a wiring issue.

Everyone is making good points for the no spark!
As for the Fuel issue, keep it simple. First step is to check fuel pump fuse, then test the Relay. If you cant test the relay just power up the pump directly.

If a dealership quoted you $70 for a crank position sensor. I would jump on that. Regular dealer price is $110. Also take a volt meter and check connection at the destributor to see if the cam position sensor is getting 5 vdc at the orange wire. Then check the Ohms from the black wire to the - terminal on the batt. If you have no signal or high resistance, you have a grounding issue and the cam position sensor will not trigger the coil. Also check the condition of the cam position sensor. If it looks even the slightest bit dirty/corroded, or the plastic is cracked. Replace it.

And....as for the throttle body spacer. Walk away from it, it won't deliver any performance or fuel economy gains.

On a carb vehicle, the spacer offers more time and turbulence to mix air and fuel. With the XJ, injection takes place in the manifold, so throttle body spacer does no good.

A bored-out throttle body, however, can bring increases to performance, but you'll have to watch your right foot for it to offer any fuel economy gains.

Fly,

I didn't notice any fuel mileage gains with the spacer, but the jeep did seem a bit peppier than stock. I guess is the consensus more for the FIPK, or a different setup, that was cheaper. Cost isn't a whole lot to consider here, but I want to make sure the cost doesn't outweigh the benefits.

Norsk62,

The CPS was only $74 from the stealership, which was only about $8-10 higher than the chain stores prices, and its a OEM part, so its failure shouldn't be as high as the chain stores ones are, or are from what I have been reading. My XJ has the total thin disc cam sensor, and if what is on there right now doesn't cut it, then I will have to wait till Friday to get one of those. That is a $35 part, and i guess on that part the chain stores would be ok?? The counter clown(as we call them) at the store I went to said he sells a bunch of the Cam sensors vs the Crank Sensors, which from what I have been reading, both on here and the FSM is that the Crank sensor is far more likely to give me the symptoms that I have right now.

Got the CPS today, gonna get it in when the wife gets back home from grocery shopping. For those who need the Chrysler part # 56027865AB, and if I can get the memory card, or the cord for the camera I will also try and post a pic up of it. I also got the little cardboard spacer that is needed to set the correct backspacing, that is part # 5252229.

Is there a better way one way or the other at replacing the CPS? Easier from the bottom of the Jeep or top?? It doesn't look like it will take long to replace, but some pointers from those that have done it would be helpful here.

The FSM does state that if the CPS is malfunctioning/bad, no spark event will take place. And from what was previously posted by 8Mud, if the CPS has failed, the ASD won't close, and if the ASD won't close, neither will the Fuel Pump relay. So likely my scenario is just the CPS, so once I get that in, I will post up my new findings. I got a new cap, rotor, wires, and plugs so a total tuneup is in order. Thoughts on if I should just totally upgrade the ignition system to the Firepower Kit from Performance Distributors?? Efficiency is the key here, and my last XJ I used factory plugs(Champions), Bosch Wires, and a stock rotor/cap. The tuneup on this shouldn't take an hour, but I don't want to mess with anything else till the CPS is in and we have some kind of spark anyways. Im not a newbie to the XJ by any means, but since this one is a tad different than my last(242 xfer case, and no power windows or locks), I am using what I remember from that one, for this one. As it sits right now, this XJ is on 30.5" tires, and these were the same one on my last XJ.

Next question is exhaust. I have nothing from the Cat back. Since all that also needs to be replaced, a high flow system is in order. While I am covering that, I am also considering replacing the header, and cat, with aftermarket parts when funds become available. Thoughts on gains in both performance and economy here would be awesome. I am slowly building this machine up, and if funds allow, I might find a second one to do some of the same to. This community has been awesome so far, so keep all suggestions and comments coming. Thanks I and I will let you know my findings later this afternoon.

Jeff

Thoughts or tricks as to how to R/R the CPS?? I know the bolts are 11mm, and I have removed the shifter bracket and arm from the tranny for clearance, but it looks like I might need a ujoint in the socket/extension to get things out and then back in correctly?? Advice here would help, as I am planning on replacing it tommorrow, of course after I lost my extension trying to fit tools together to get the two bolts out. Thanks in advance,

Jeff

i used two long extensions and a wobble socket to get mine on and off. pain with one person for sure, but doable. and check out rockauto for the cps. i remember getting mine for like 35-40 from them. just takes a couple days to get it, but i bought two at a time just in case(which turned out well cause i messed up a connector one day. but yeah, two long extensions and a wobble socket should get the cps removed/installed.

Old one is out. Compared to what the stealership got me, well the only difference was the connector to connect it into the wiring harness. That part #, 56027865AB, was incorrect. Here is the correct part number for at least my '94 XJ's setup: 1-56026921. I apologize for the incorrect information, but I didn't discover the problem till I had the old one out. I also will have to post a picture of the spacer(I believe it to be a factory one). I have to add some photos to my profile or import them from another site.

Update: I still am not getting spark. Nothing from fuel pump either. I have swapped relays around, and checked my spark directly from the coil. The new CPS is in, and located properly. Thoughts now as to how to proceed? I was thinking of the Cam sensor next, or the coil itself, as either can be tested, but again I would lean more towards a sensor, vs the coil. Thoughts or suggestions now??

Jeff

Ok I also put another thread up relating to this issue, so bear with me here.

ASD relay is showing continuity on all contacts when ignition is on, and slots 85 and 86 go off with the ignition off(off continuity then). So with this being said, where or what should I be checking or testing next?? Thanks again and keep the suggestions/help coming. I will retest the coil wires again, but I was only getting about 4 volts out of one of them.

Jeff