Lug Nuts upgrades?

[Kejtar]

OK.... this might sound like a JU type question, but as I was getting my tires rotated the guy at America's tires was doing his damndest to sell me $30 worth of lugnuts (they included free install LOL......). In any case, he showed me some mangled looking lugnut and said that the stock lugnuts tend to do that, and even though mine are not bad looking at the moment (if you ask me... my lugnuts are looking great :D) they do show beginnings of failure (:confused: whatever that's supposed to mean)....

Anyways, are you folks running stock lugnuts? different lugnuts? are not all lugnuts created equal? if upgraded... what is it: autozone/kragen/napa/pepboys over the counter deal? or some special ones?

I'm thinking that there is more BS to what he was saying then he cared to admit.... but if there is a slight potential that I will messup a lugnut on a trail in a middle of nowhere in a spot where I wouldn't want my XJ being for too long.... I'm willing to upgrade... otherwise then that.... stock it is....

Kejtar
P.S. I never thought that I wout spend so much writing about lugnuts:eek:

[xj92]

I've never had a problem with them, sounds like BS. Anybody else?

[MaXJohnson]

Sounds like he's talking about the lug nuts that have the thin sheet metal shell over the lug nut. They tend to get bent up, loosen up and sometime fall off over a period of time.

I replaced all of mine with some 1" hex nuts used by circle track guys. The thread is still 1/2" x 13, but the nut is much larger. The idea is that if you wheel lugs are loose, the wheel will still be retained by the larger nut (at least for a longer period of time). I like them because a thief probably wouldn't be carrying a 1" socket and most star wrenches don't have a 1" end. Just one more layer of theft protection.

[IntrepidXJ]

i replaced all my lugs that were the 2 piece with that crappy metal cover with one piece lugs.

the covers kept falling apart, making taking the lugs off apain in the ass.

no problems with the 1 piece lugs :)

[onetallmj]

As long as you are using the proper size tool to remove and install lugnuts, I don't see how that they can go "bad". Sure they might wear out , but thats only if you are switching tires constantly.
I call BS, nuts is nuts

[Jes]

Ya, the two piece lug nuts are a PITA. Some of mine are crushed and one has lost the sleeve turning it from 3/4" to 17mm. :rolleyes:
I've been meaning to replace them.

Jes

[Kejtar]

How do I determine if my OEM nuts are one piece or two piece? :)

Kejtar

[Jes]

Hit the end of one with a hammer to see if it crushes. :)
Actually, if you take one off you'll be able to tell by looking at it and how it sounds when it rolls on the ground.
IMO if they're not falling apart or damaged don't worry about replacing them.

Jes

[red87cherokee]

Originally posted by onetallmj
I don't see how that they can go "bad". Nope. The first thing every XJ/MJ owner should do is replace the lug nuts. They are a two piece design - hardened steel inner nut and a thin chrome acorn-style cover. They definitely do wear out. When they wear out (or go "bad") the chrome cover falls off, making the lug wrench useless. Not a good thing to have happen 50 miles of muddy/rocky trail from the nearest tire center.

Originally posted by Kejtar
How do I determine if my OEM nuts are one piece or two piece? If you take one of the lug nuts off, you should be able to tell if it is all one piece - or two piece with a chrome cover.

EDIT: As someone mentioned earlier, a large socket will probably work to remove the nut if the chrome cover falls off - but, I always have my lug wrench with the vehicle, I sometimes leave the tool box with all the large sockets at home.

[Eagle]

Originally posted by Kejtar
How do I determine if my OEM nuts are one piece or two piece? :)

Kejtar

There is no determination necessary -- they are two piece. That shiny surface you see is a very thin stanless steel cap that's crimped on over a mild steel, open-ended lug nut. Once the goons in the shops hit it a few times with the gorilla guns, the cap gets banged up and then either it falls off (thus, as noted, reducing the head from 3/4" to a smaller metric size -- which I thought was 18mm but might be 17mm), or gets so mangled that you can't get a socket on it.

I still run OEM lug nuts on my street rims, but I am the only person who ever removes my rims and I never use an air gun -- always remove them with a 4-way spanner and torque them with a torque wrench. For anyone who cannot make that commitment, I recommend replacing with solid ones. I don't like them because the chrome is too thin and around here they rust within 6 months, but in California that shouldn't be a problem.

[RichP]

I still have the two I was born with, guess that makes them OEM :D
As for my vehicles, I always replace them with steel ones. Did both the YJ and the XJ, used the ones that Advanced Auto carries, Rally brand I think. Bought them in a kit and two extra sets. $22 for the kit and $4 something for each extra 4. Each kit comes with 16 lugs and 4 locking. I don't use the locking kind.
Keep in mind that your stock lug wrench won't work on them, different size but I keep a big 1/2 torque wrench and a long breaker bar under the rear seat for that stuff.
Anybody need 10 locking lugs ??? Free for the shipping :D D:

[Kejtar]

RichP :) I'll take you up on thre locking nuts if you're coming to Moab :) I'm gonna use one on the future tire carrier that I will eventually put on the XJ and one for my dad's van (external tire carrier as well :) and my folks' campter trailer.....

Hmmm.... and getting back to the original question (kind of): how do I determine which lug nuts are better then the others? I will be shopping for lugs during this week :) and as we all know one nut is not equal to the other :D

Kejtar

[RichP]

And I'll drop a 5 pack in the mail. Downside is that you only get ONE Key, however you can order extra keys from the manufacturer. I think the number is engraved on the key, I'll look..... YUP, number is on the key.
Eagel is correct, if they are OEM lugs they are the two piece.
As for quality, Hmmm, Crager and Keystone make good wheels and lug nuts but you don't find them in too many places on the shelf.

[5-90]

Good news is you don't have to spend a lot to get good nuts (Gawd, that comes out wrong, don't it?)

If you are anywhere near AZ or C/S/K, you should be able to score nice sets of solid cast lug nuts for about $5/4. That's what I use, and run them for years. Since I don't spend a King's ransom on wheels, I find they tend to stay put. (Nice thing about OEMR steel wheels...)

If you want to spend a fortune you can, but I see no reason to. Make sure to apply Never-Seez upon installation, and don't use the "Gorilla Gun" (Eagle, I like that one!)

5-90

[SyCo]

Get the McGard (www.mcgard.com) brand lug nuts. They're pricey, but worth it. You can buy the "wheel install" kits which include 20 nuts, 5 wheel locks + key, and valve stems. And they're guaranteed t never rust. Take this as advice from a guy who installs tires for a living.

http://www.mcgard.com/prod_imgs/LugConeReg.jpg
http://www.mcgard.com/prod_imgs/hex_lockkey.jpg

[sidriptide]

another vote for the McGard set... i prefer an acorn type nut that protects the threads from damage and moisture.. the locks are PIA but a nessecary evil where i park it..
mike

[Eagle]

I also second the use of anti-sieze on the studs. I stopped on a highway in Kansas once some years back to help a newlywed couple with a flat tire. Lug nuts were so rusted on that they bent their OEM wrench into a pretzel and couldn't make 'em move. I had the trusty 4-way spanner, and even with that it was a struggle. When I mounted the spare I yanked the dip stick and dribbled a little oil on each stud.

Anti-sieze will prevent this problem. However, if you do this it's even more critical to remember that when using anti-sieze you must reduce the recommended torque by about 20% to 25%. Curiously, although the XJ has always had 1/2x20 studs, the recommended torque has varied from year to year. The '94 FSM says 95 ft-lbs, so if using anti-sieze it should be only about 80 ft.lbs.

The FSM also says never to use oil or grease on the studs, but I've been using anti-sieze for more than 30 years and I've never had one loosen up on me. But using a "gorilla gun" on a stud that's got anti-sieze on it is virtually guaranteed to stretch the stud. The next time it's taken off it'll be in two pieces.

[5-90]

I concur with our feathered colleague on stud stretch - I've seen it several times in the last 23 years myself, and I've gotten tired of changing studs for stupid reasons - even when I do get paid to do it!

Never-Seez seems to retain well on teh studs, but I clean and reapply on quarterly inspections anyhow (when I rotate the tyres and check the brakes all around, as well as a host of other things. That's why I have 15 year old vehicles that run better than most new ones...)

5-90

[BillR]

Another vote for the McGuard set. I just got a set at Checker this past weekend, so no more OEM junk nuts on mine. Out of twenty lugs, I probably had 8 that had shed their "skin". My 4-way worked great, but they looked tacky, and no I have locks on all the wheels.:cool:

[aspera]

...McGard does not recommend
the use of SplineDrive lugs on most Jeep vehicles due to the lugs bottoming
out on the wheel studs. This is caused by the inside clearance of the lugs
are not long enough for the wheel studs. For additional assistance, you may
contact our customer service department at 1-800-444-5847.

Thank you,

Marc Courtney
Customer Service Technician
McGard Inc.


Has anybody heard of anything like this? Does the XJ have longer studs (snicker snicker)? I really want the Splinedrives.

[jeep.xj.4x4]

You would think that the manufacturer of a hardcore go anywhere vehicle would use one-peice lug nuts! I guess it's a cost cutter for them? The best part about the two piece lugs is, if the outside falls off there is no star wrench that will remove it when you are stuck in the woods 20 miles from civilization! How convenient!;)

[Wayne Sihler]

Like Rich said get the Rally brand from Advance Auto.1/2x20 thread .
#90121 Conical seat 2B
These are heavy well made nuts. The chrome will rust if an impact wrench is used but who can tell at 20mph and it the mud?
They run about $5 a set of 4 nuts
Wayne

[Static-XJ]

I've had two chrome caps come off in the last year. The replacement lugs are $4-$5 each for the two piece chrome capped ones. Once the cap falls off you can use the next smaller metric size (thought it was 18, can't remember for sure) 12 pt socket. Have to hammer it on and use a breaker bar to lake the lug off. Socket fits so tight there isn't room for it to slip. ;)

Who else chucked their OEM lug wrench? Mine was rounded when I bought it. A 4way was one of the first investments I made.

Whats worse than the cap popping off due to abuse, is when they round off over the nut. I had to peel the cap away from that one (tough with the wheel right there) before I could get a socket on there. :mad:

I have considered a set of replacement lugs. Just don't have the money for them right now.

[Kejtar]

I know what you mean Static-XJ.... as much as I want to do it (even though none of mine fell appart yet), I cannot justify spending the $$ for it when I'm not spending the $$ on some other things.... I just hope it won't come back and bite me...

Kejtar

[xjgeek]

NAPA part number BK 641-2055, they are less than $5 a piece, and thats cheap!! i have seen lug nuts from dealers, like the big gawdy ones on the Lexus/Toyota Landcruiser, about 18 bucks each!! and aftermarkets not avail!

AZ, NAPA, ADVANCE AUTO, PEP BOYS...

they all have to meet cerain specs and standards....

[vintagespeed]

Dude, if they're charging you $5 a piece, you're taking it well! Out here in sunny California, I buy 1-piece chrome acorn lug nuts from America's Tire for $.50 - $1 per, depending on who I talk to.

Remi, just be glad you're not 8 lug front & rear. :D

I've always run Gorilla locks on my wheels, and they're always where I left them. The Gorilla lock is guaranteed for life & doesn't look goofy like some of the locks out there. I've had this setup for many many years now & only had to replace the ones I've lost due to broken studs (gotta love sand).

[Kejtar]

If you can get them at $.50 per lugnut.. we gonna have to talk :)

[XJguy]

Ive owned 3 XJs, from experience I HIGHLY suggest you junk the stock 2 piece lug nuts and get yourself a set of McGaurd tripple chromed one piece lug nuts and not worry ever again. A stripped lug nut is about as unpleasant as it gets; a 1 minute job all of a sudden becomes a two hour ordeal.

Xjguy

[bburge]

Originally posted by Eagle
There is no determination necessary -- they are two piece. That shiny surface you see is a very thin stanless steel cap that's crimped on over a mild steel, open-ended lug nut. Once the goons in the shops hit it a few times with the gorilla guns, the cap gets banged up and then either it falls off (thus, as noted, reducing the head from 3/4" to a smaller metric size -- which I thought was 18mm but might be 17mm), or gets so mangled that you can't get a socket on it.


Mine are 19mm with the cover, 18 without.

Since I use a 1/2 inch breaker bar and a socket as a lug wrench, I have 19 and an 18 handy at all times...

Yes, I've been considering changing them all out for "one piece" ones.

bburge

[LT1XJ]

Yeah, My first experience with the two piece nuts was when I went to put new wheels on my jeep. Apparently, they had boogered one up last time I had tires balanced. It took a blue wrench and air chisel to get the darn thing off. I bought some mcgards online for like $5 or $6 for 4. I think it was driverfx.com can't remember. Anyways, replace the stock ones.

[Speed_racer]

I just bought a set of NON LOCKING ONE PIECE lug nuts and slapped those on, i originally had the 2 piecer's and about h alf of the top thin metal things ripped off, it sucked!

[aspera]

I went to the local Hubcap Tire and Wheel Store the other day. The guy wouldn't sell me aftermarket lugs for a factory wheel (Moab design from a Rubi). He brought out a rim and tried to show me the difference between how OEM and aftermarket lug nuts seat. Anybody heard of this?

I figured that the Jeep had a 45 degree cone and a bulge seat. Aftermarket lugnuts should work fine it the angle is the same and the seat is wide enough. What am I missing?:confused:

Is the Jeep design 'cupped'?

EDIT: 60 degree NOT 45

[aspera]

http://www.prestigewheel.com/RetailLugNuts.asp

:eek: I had no idea there were this many kinds of lugnuts.

I think the XJ needs the "1/2 RH 3/4 - 19mm Hex Extended Conical Seat Buldge Nut Closed" kind of lugnut. While there are plenty of other 60 degree seat conical lugs, I think the bulge design is really needed on the Jeep. Same goes for the closed end, especially if you drive your Jeep through mudpuddles.;)

I was hoping to find a suitable SplineDrive design, but no dice. I did notice that the Presitge spline drive is 7 sided. It might not hurt to slip one of then in with a set of 8 sided McGard SplineDrives (on another vehicle).;)

[dan f.]

a lot of the little covers came off my nuts(:eek: ), making using a wrench difficult, so i took off one of the covers that was still good and keep it in the glove box. when i have to take one off (like on the side of the road, not in the garage), i just put the good cover in the wrench, which makes it just right.
just my two cents
dan f.