coil bucket that pivots

has anyone tried mounting the front coil bucket to the axle in a way that it can pivot? with the bucket stationary it really bends the spring when you have one side flex down and the other side up. i would think if the bucket can pivot to match the degree of the axle, the coil spring would remain straight and not wear out prematurely.

how often would you have to replace that pivot per saved spring?

also, would the pivot, well, pivoting, cause any issues driving on the road? i imagine to pivot it would have points of higher or lower stances than stock...would this creat a jeep that is rocking to and fro in the front?

no, it would rock side to side, not front to back. i wouldnt think it would need replacing very often. leaf spring end pivot in the same manner, so do shock hoops. i cant see why it would have any ill effects on the road. it would pretty much be the same as a coil over shock without the shock. and the coil does nothing to keep the jeep from rocking to and fro, thats what the control arms are for.

ok i get that...

but lets say your driving, and the pivoting bucket is leaned to the driver side, height is X.

you hit a bump, now the bucket is standing centered, not tilted. there has to a be a height change. that would depend on how far it can pivot and yada yada...
so now the height is X + whatever the increase in height is as the bucket follows arc...then due to pressure it picks a side and falls to a side, now you are back at X. so your jeep just lifted a little bit then dropped abruptly, causing the side the change occured on to lift then lower as the bucket pivoted...

follow?

Not sure how it would be mounted or how you would keep the spring from escaping if something went wonky... I would love to move to coilovers at some point though.

this kinda highlights why coilovers are best, suspension wise... and our 4-link+tracbar suspension sucks for high travel numbers. however i dont see this as a problem for the go-slow crowd, only potentially those with hydraulic bumpstops.

as was kinda eluded to, the worst abuse to your coils (and any hydraulic bumps contained inside the coils) would be from side to side sway from the swing arc of the tracbar.... and a pivoting bucket wouldnt do anything here..... the bucket would have to physically move over to releive any coil bowing... just not possible!

sounds almost as scary as revolver shackles. i can only imagine the wierd things that would create driving on the road.

yea, i think i follow you. but im not sure why the bucket would be pivoting to one side or the other when you are just driving on the road. the spring would want to keep the bucket stright toward the top of the spring at any angle. there is no side force on the spring if the bucket can pivot. the side force we see now is because the bucket is forcing the spring to bend to one side or the other depending on angle of the axle to the vehicle. now i would think if the spring was unloaded enough to seperate from the body at the top, it then could move slightly because the hole in the spring is much larger that the bump stop shaft. but if a bushing was installed in the top hole of the spring that si just slightly larger than the diameter of the bump stop shaft, it would act as a guide. the whole point to having the pivot would to eliminate the side force we create when flexing the suspension. especially with higher lifts. and yes the bucket would most likely need to be raised a little off the axle, but dont most people want a little extra lift? take out that extra spacer you put on the top of the spring, and now you are at the same hight, but have more bump stop shaft for the spring to follow before it comes completely out.

kastein said:

Not sure how it would be mounted or how you would keep the spring from escaping if something went wonky... I would love to move to coilovers at some point though.

Click to expand...

i think that would be easy to keep from happening by installing a larger diameter bump stop on the end of the shaft. the spring would only be able to slide down to that point, then you would be stretching the spring as the stop would keep it from coming off.

the side forces are a result of the tracbar swing arc...

heres a pic of the tracbar pulling the driverside wheel inward at full bump
[URL=http://img188.imageshack.us/i/dscn0134eg.jpg/]


[/URL]

and yes the revolver shackles seem to be quite scary to me aswell. i dont see the comparison. revolver shackles pivot in all directions. the coil bucket would only pivot latteraly to accomidate the natural pivot the axle would give it. basically the same as a coil over shock. and yes i agree, coil overs would be optimum. i even have a set of 12" and a set of 10" i was saving for the sand car, but the jeep may be getting them now. this idea was just a thought as to why it wouldnt work. seems it would benefit alot of folks that couldnt afford coil overs. and with most lifts over 4 inch, dont we need to modify the buckets anyhow?

i dont think the coil would want to compress straight up and down anyway. like when you pinch a small spring between your fingers, its hard to get it straight throughout compression without it bowing out and wanting to fly out. i feel like it would want to bow even more with pivoting coil pads. would they be able to automatically return to level at ride height if the pivot had sort of become stuck in one direction by a bowed coil? maybe im over thinking this though.

2stix said:

i think that would be easy to keep from happening by installing a larger diameter bump stop on the end of the shaft. the spring would only be able to slide down to that point, then you would be stretching the spring as the stop would keep it from coming off.

Click to expand...

that's kinda a nifty idea actually. I guess your bumpstops would line up better, too. If I was gonna mess around with it this much I'd probably get coilovers though...

xcm said:

the side forces are a result of the tracbar swing arc...

heres a pic of the tracbar pulling the driverside wheel inward at full bump
[URL=http://img188.imageshack.us/i/dscn0134eg.jpg/]


[/URL]

Click to expand...

that is exactly what i am talking about. the flexing is what made the track bar geometry pull the axle to the side. with the bucket stationary this makes the spring bend in a way it wasnt designed to do. now imagine the bucket being able to pivot allowing the spring to stay striaght. of course the bump stop would still stay its position so there could possibly be some rubbing on the inside of the spring, but we get that allready.

unless the bucket slid toward center of the axle, it would still cause bending???

1990JEEPXJ said:

i dont think the coil would want to compress straight up and down anyway. like when you pinch a small spring between your fingers, its hard to get it straight throughout compression without it bowing out and wanting to fly out. i feel like it would want to bow even more with pivoting coil pads. would they be able to automatically return to level at ride height if the pivot had sort of become stuck in one direction by a bowed coil? maybe im over thinking this though.

Click to expand...

thats kinda what i had in mind. with a pivot on the axle, there is nothing to really keep the spring straight. it will just keep trying to fling itself out, like pinching a spring in your fingers. seems like there would be wierd loading/unloading characteristics

1990JEEPXJ said:

i dont think the coil would want to compress straight up and down anyway. like when you pinch a small spring between your fingers, its hard to get it straight throughout compression without it bowing out and wanting to fly out. i feel like it would want to bow even more with pivoting coil pads. would they be able to automatically return to level at ride height if the pivot had sort of become stuck in one direction by a bowed coil? maybe im over thinking this though.

Click to expand...

thats a great point and one of the reasons i am asking. but with as strong as spring we use, im thinking it would be very difficult to make it bow out unless it WAS solidly mounted at the ends. i get your comment about the spring between your fingers, but thats a small spring that is not designed to stay striaght like the ones we use. but yes, definatly a concern if your spring is allready bowed to one direction. you would have to start with a undamaged spring.

yeah. i mean since no one has experience, all there are are educated quesses and relations to similar situations. but i get what you are saying. its not like the coils are wet noodles. i never really thought bowing a spring like that was so damaging to them

think of it this way, if the spring wanted to bow out even more, wouldnt it allready do that when we put the massive side load on it with the solid mount. we are basically TRYING/FORCING the coil to bend now. the spring as new wants to maintain as straight as possible. we are forcing it to bend with the solid mount. not the other way around.