Best cam-header-head-programmer combo

nochance9 · Feb 11, 2011

So here's the deal, I want to do a mild engine build for my 01, auto, limited. Right now it has a cat back and a k&n cold air intake. My plans include building a head, finishing up the exhaust, throwing a cam in, maybe a double roller timing chain, and some sort of tuner.

So I wanted to build a head to replace the crack prone stocker my 01 has on it with one of the older castings. I know that there is one that will allow me to use my 99+ intake, but I'm not entirely sure which one it is. The 0330? Anyways, it'll get the full port polish and gasket match treatment, roller rockers, and a full machine job. I saw a guy who put ls1 valves in his head, do you think that's worth it?

I was going to go with the comp cam, but they went under. So I'm totally at a loss now. Any suggestions for a good low to mid range cam?

For the exhaust I would love to get a banks header, and a magnaflow high flow cat. I know that apn is another option but I know almost nothing about them.

As for a programmer, I have no idea where to begin... I can get an edge one with a hook up I have, but I like the option of one that can do more, like read and delete codes, have multiple tune options ect.. I saw an ad for one made by diablo in JP that could do all that. Does anyone have any experience with it?

So what do you all think? Is it worth it? Anything I'm leaving out? I am very open to options other than the ones I listed and any feedback is great. If you have first hand experience that's even better!

Thanks,

Chance

sjx40250 · Feb 11, 2011

Check this site out first.
http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/

Talyn · Feb 11, 2011

nochance9 said:
So I wanted to build a head to replace the crack prone stocker my 01 has on it with one of the older castings. I know that there is one that will allow me to use my 99+ intake, but I'm not entirely sure which one it is. The 0330? Anyways, it'll get the full port polish and gasket match treatment, roller rockers, and a full machine job. I saw a guy who put ls1 valves in his head, do you think that's worth it?

Its not the intake manifold that is the issue its the exhaust manifold. The 03+ 0331 with a TUPY stamp is what you want. Larger valves aren't worth it. Won't flow any better as the restriction isn't the valves, more shrouding and more weight.

I was going to go with the comp cam, but they went under.

Comp Cam didn't go under. And a cams election would be based off what you want out of the engine. I'd recommend calling a few other companies (not comp) and request a custom grind based on your intended use and needs.

For the exhaust I would love to get a banks header, and a magnaflow high flow cat. I know that apn is another option but I know almost nothing about them.

If you don't want to do extra work to the rest of the exhaust system your options are limited.. as well as very limited if you have a Cali emissions package.

As for a programmer, I have no idea where to begin... I can get an edge one with a hook up I have, but I like the option of one that can do more, like read and delete codes, have multiple tune options ect.. I saw an ad for one made by diablo in JP that could do all that. Does anyone have any experience with it?

none of those plug-in programs do much good on a stock engine.

RCman · Feb 11, 2011

nochance9 said:
So here's the deal, I want to do a mild engine build for my 01, auto, limited. Right now it has a cat back and a k&n cold air intake.

Ditch the oiled type air filter.

nochance9 said:
So I wanted to build a head to replace the crack prone stocker my 01 has on it with one of the older castings. I know that there is one that will allow me to use my 99+ intake, but I'm not entirely sure which one it is. The 0330? Anyways, it'll get the full port polish and gasket match treatment, roller rockers, and a full machine job. I saw a guy who put ls1 valves in his head, do you think that's worth it?

The 0630 head is a good head, but you'll need to fabricate bosses for the coil pack to sit and I know you will need a different exhaust manifold. The 7120 head is also an option but you will need to plug a sensor hole and a new exhaust manifold like the 0630. Port & Polish is a good idea if you've already got it torn done for a rebuild anyway. I would not waste the money on a set of rockers unless you are building a serious HP motor.

nochance9 said:
I was going to go with the comp cam, but they went under. So I'm totally at a loss now. Any suggestions for a good low to mid range cam?

As far as I know Comp Cams is far from under, maybe you were thinking Crane Cams. However they are back up and running last I heard. I am running the Comp Cams A6 X4 250H-13, good low end pickup and a very responsive throttle. Not the most extreme out there, but it does work well in my '97.

nochance9 said:
As for a programmer, I have no idea where to begin... I can get an edge one with a hook up I have, but I like the option of one that can do more, like read and delete codes, have multiple tune options ect.. I saw an ad for one made by diablo in JP that could do all that. Does anyone have any experience with it?

You could be getting yourself into trouble with a programmer, plus a cam and things. The programmers are designed for stock setups, start the valve lift/duration from what the programmer expects and you could run into pinging issues or even have a detrimental effect pretty quick. I'd stay away from any of the pocket programmers on anything other than a stock engine. I'm sure it may way, just not something I'd want to try.

nochance9 · Feb 12, 2011

sjx40250 said:
Check this site out first.
http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/

There's some good stuff in there, thanks.

Talyn said:
Its not the intake manifold that is the issue its the exhaust manifold. I know about the smaller ports to help cat light up, and i was planning on getting a header and finishing up the exhaust, so i thought i would just get a header that fits the older style heads.
The 03+ 0331 with a TUPY stamp is what you want.Why is this one most favorable?
Larger valves aren't worth it. Won't flow any better as the restriction isn't the valves, more shrouding and more weight.
Good to know, this is exactly why i'm asking for input. I thought larger valves would be a good thing no matter what.
cams election would be based off what you want out of the engine. I'd recommend calling a few other companies (not comp) and request a custom grind based on your intended use and needs.
Wouldn't a custom cam be oober expensive? All i want is more grunt down low. Most my driving is city, and most my wheeling is crawling. There wouldn't be an off-the-shelf cam for that?
If you don't want to do extra work to the rest of the exhaust system your options are limited.. as well as very limited if you have a Cali emissions package.What do you mean extra work on the exhaust? couldn't i just grab a header, down pipe, and high flow cat that is also 2 1/4"?
Also, how can i tell if i have the cali emissions? And what restritions would that pose? (the guy we bought it from said that he bought it from the original owner in Texas, if that matters...)
none of those plug-in programs do much good on a stock engine.I know that they don't do much on a stocker. But i was under the impression that they would help more with a more modified engine, like the one i plan on building... :dunno:

RCman said:
Ditch the oiled type air filter. Plan to get an air aid.

The 0630 head is a good head, but you'll need to fabricate bosses for the coil pack to sit and I know you will need a different exhaust manifold.Talyn shows how to mount the coils in his build thread, im not too scared. What would be the advantages of this head vs the one Talyn proposed? As stated before, I am planning on getting a header to match the head i end up building The 7120 head is also an option but you will need to plug a sensor hole and a new exhaust manifold like the 0630. Advantages of 7120 head? isn't that the renix one?? Port & Polish is a good idea if you've already got it torn done for a rebuild anyway. I would not waste the money on a set of rockers unless you are building a serious HP motor.Im going to probably get a jy head and build it all outside the jeep, then swap it all in at once.
As far as I know Comp Cams is far from under, maybe you were thinking Crane Cams. However they are back up and running last I heard. I am running the Comp Cams A6 X4 250H-13, good low end pickup and a very responsive throttle. Not the most extreme out there, but it does work well in my '97.Im not going to build a monster, so i don't think a very aggressive cam would be needed... but if i could use a more aggressive one, without any major draw backs, that would be ok with me.
You could be getting yourself into trouble with a programmer, plus a cam and things. The programmers are designed for stock setups, start the valve lift/duration from what the programmer expects and you could run into pinging issues or even have a detrimental effect pretty quick. I'd stay away from any of the pocket programmers on anything other than a stock engine. I'm sure it may way, just not something I'd want to try.Good point, i hadn't thought about that. I do have a hook up at edge, would it be worth talking to them about what i am going to do to see if they could build a tune for my application? Other than that, i wouldn't want to run meggasquirt or similar because i don't know enough to tune an engine. Is a custom tune even advantageousness for me?

Couple more things...

What would i be getting if i used some ford 24lb injectors? I know they are popular, just not sure if they would do anything if the stock ones aren't running at full capacity on a stock tune.
Also, what do you think of running water/meth on a NA engine like my 4.0? Just throwing it out there...

Thanks for all the information, i am very eager to learn all this so please forgive me if my questions seem stupid...

PS: RCman and Talyn, i've read both your build threads, really good work and i'm happy to have your input on this.

Talyn · Feb 12, 2011

Why is this one most favorable?

because it isn't crack prone as the earlier 0331 heads

Wouldn't a custom cam be oober expensive? All i want is more grunt down low. Most my driving is city, and most my wheeling is crawling. There wouldn't be an off-the-shelf cam for that?

A custom cam isn't expensive. My Isky cam was $90. The Comp 68-231-4has a bunch of low end grunt, but i don't like that cam nor comp.

What do you mean extra work on the exhaust? couldn't i just grab a header, down pipe, and high flow cat that is also 2 1/4"?
Also, how can i tell if i have the cali emissions? And what restritions would that pose? (the guy we bought it from said that he bought it from the original owner in Texas, if that matters...)

The factory down pipe meets the header ins a different position on the factory header. There are only like 3 headers for the 00-01 that are fully bolt up. While I don't have experience with them I've been told they work on the earlier heads with the moved exhaust ports because the pipe is larger. If you have the cali package you would have 4 O2 sensors, and 3 cats. You will have the main cats and then two smaller ones immediately after the exhaust manifold. If you have the cali package you would be pretty much stuck with using the 00-01 header.

i was under the impression that they would help more with a more modified engine, like the one i plan on building...

They don't do much for either stock or modified. You would need a custom tune either to the PCM or a piggy back unit to see anything usable.

Plan to get an air aid.

I recommend an Amsoil dry filter.

If you have the non-cali emissions package (federal) you will have an easier time and could possibly benefit from the earlier 0630 or 7120 head. Use the header designed for that head as well. Some say that the 0630 and 7120 flow better than the 0331 head. However recently some people have said that the 0331 with its manifolds work the best.

What would i be getting if i used some ford 24lb injectors?

Unless you have a stroker would would be running very rich and wasting gas.

Also, what do you think of running water/meth on a NA engine like my 4.0? Just throwing it out there...

You don't know enough to tune an engine but want to play with water and meth?

nochance9 · Feb 14, 2011

Talyn said:
A custom cam isn't expensive. My Isky cam was $90. The Comp 68-231-4has a bunch of low end grunt, but i don't like that cam nor comp.

Good to know, why don't you like comp?

The factory down pipe meets the header ins a different position on the factory header.

What if I had a custom made down pipe? Cause, I want to put a flex pipe in right about there.

There are only like 3 headers for the 00-01 that are fully bolt up.

Banks is one, I know.

If you have the cali package you would have 4 O2 sensors, and 3 cats. You will have the main cats and then two smaller ones immediately after the exhaust manifold.

I do have the mini-cats in the header.

If you have the cali package you would be pretty much stuck with using the 00-01 header.

Because it has the mini-cats? Or because of the o2 sensors? Because I could easily weld in some o2 bungs.

You would need a custom tune either to the PCM or a piggy back unit to see anything usable.

Do you know what my options are for that? I have a good friend who has done all the tuning on his dsm with dsm-link, he has done a really good job on it too. But he said that he would help me with the tuning side of things. The only complication he said was the obd2. I guess custom tuning things are much more restricted with obd2 than his obd1. :dunno:

You don't know enough to tune an engine but want to play with water and meth?

It would be pretty straight forward because I wouldnt have to tune it for boost through the rpm range, just how much to inject at what rpm... (I think)

Talyn · Feb 14, 2011

You need to learn now to use the quote function.

I don't like Comp because they are like the walmart of cam companies. They haven't updated their cam offerings for the Jeep I6 since the 4.2L. Their "kit" offerings are still based off the 4.2L head which creates a whole lot of confusion for people buying their kits not knowing what they are really getting. I.e. Unusable springs, locks and retainers on te 4.0L heads. And even though the issue has been addressed with them they refuse to change their offerings. You can make a custom down pipe with a flex joint but you can't get rid of the precat nor the 4 O2 sensors. Your best bet would be to use a 0331 TUPY head and an exhaust header meant for your model year. The problems isn't OBD I vs. OBD II the problem is that the Jeep PCM is closed with only 1 or 2 companies that can actually modify the PCM. Also, there isn't really that much you can gain on a mostly stock 4.0L, nor does it have any need or gain from water/meth injection.

Caudiji · Mar 8, 2011

Cam163-000-5 custom grind from comp cams just had it installed along with an alabama cylinder head heavy cast, port and polish, 5 way valve job, banks torque tube should be running this week. Oh and flow master 40 2.5-3" exhaust. 2000xj

nochance9 · Mar 8, 2011

Caudiji said:
Cam163-000-5 custom grind from comp cams just had it installed along with an alabama cylinder head heavy cast, port and polish, 5 way valve job, banks torque tube should be running this week. Oh and flow master 40 2.5-3" exhaust. 2000xj

Lemme know how that works for you. Does the banks reuse the pre cats?

Talyn · Mar 9, 2011

Yes, all the headers for the 00-01 XJ reuse the precats. Doing so would be illegal and you would need minor custom exhaust work and O2 sims.

nochance9 · Mar 9, 2011

I read on another thread here that you can use a later model head and header without the pre-cats if you use an older ecu. Any truth to this?

Or do the pre-cats not restrict flow/power enough to matter?

Ps: sorry about the quote thing, I think I'm trying to do too much on my phone these days... for more complex posts I should really use my lap top. :dunce:

Talyn · Mar 9, 2011

I've never heard of that and would like to see the thread you are referencing.

In order to use the older PCM you would need to replace the engine wiring harness, replace the coil rail with a coil, replace the cam sensor with a distributor, relocate the O2 sensors, maybe another sensor and possibly the gauge cluster. Cost vs benefits isn't worth it.

nochance9 · Mar 9, 2011

I just looked through 16 pages of mod tec posts and can't find that thread... what would happen if I just moved the o2 sensors behind the main cat? Would they get the same reading they are looking for? Or would it all go terribly wrong?

nochance9 · Mar 12, 2011

I just realized that you would not use an older ecu, but one of the same year without the pre cats...

Best cam-header-head-programmer combo

nochance9

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