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Name that leak! (Now with pictures!)

D

DonkRado

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Quick rundown:
New to me XJ.
~36K on new crate engine.
It dropped at least 3 quarts of oil on the 300 mile drive home.
Possibly drops oil while engine is off.

1990 4.0 Non-HO.
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So, I'm planning to change out the oil pan gasket, rear main seal, and whatever the seal on the front of the crankshaft is called. I'm also hitting the CCV/FAI hose grommets, and the valve cover gasket. New HV oil pump while I'm in there. Sealing it all up with Castrol GTX 10-30 on a Napa Gold (Wix) filter.

Sorry for the ignorant question, but could someone please tell me the technical name of that front main crank seal? I haven't found it, but I've found like three names for the rear main seal.

Anything else strongly recommended while I'm in there? Thanks.
 
Before you go ripping it apart check the bolts that hold the front timing chain cover. The ones on my 98 were loose, the only thing keeping them in was the harmonic balancer. I only noticed it when I was changing the water pump, tightened them back up and that mysterious 1 quart between oil changes vanished. Oh yea, it was only the lower bolts that were loose, the ones behind the balancer, not the upper ones, go figure.
 
Well I dont know what the tech name for the "front main seal" is but I would say the if you do all of that to your rig then it should be oil tight! Tell us how it goes. If its not too bad im sure mine could use it too:)
 
Something else that you may want to check before you tear it apart is that you don't have to much pressure in the crank case. I had by mistake put a PCV valve in place of the breather hose that goes from the top of the Valve cover to the air box. Well I lost as much or more oil in about the same time. I replaced it with the just a vent hose and the problem went away. Something to check.

Erik
 
erikwylie said:
Something else that you may want to check before you tear it apart is that you don't have to much pressure in the crank case. I had by mistake put a PCV valve in place of the breather hose that goes from the top of the Valve cover to the air box. Well I lost as much or more oil in about the same time. I replaced it with the just a vent hose and the problem went away. Something to check.

Erik
Click to expand...

Yeah. I pulled the CCV and FAI hoses last night. I probably ruined the FAI in taking it off, but I'm aiming for peace of mind, new stuff here. The CCV was just a total nasty carbon-ish mess of soot and buildup. I'm sure it was creating some issues, but I don't know that they were of the oil pressure variety. My oil pressure was actually about 40 cold, ~20 idle warm, 35-40 under load warm. That's all within spec, but that $75 for the new oil pump will be minimal when I don't have to pull it all apart again if it turns out bad. It's a good thing that I had a nice wheels/tires fund set up to get the car inspected and on the road. :rolleyes:
 
RichP said:
Before you go ripping it apart check the bolts that hold the front timing chain cover. The ones on my 98 were loose, the only thing keeping them in was the harmonic balancer. I only noticed it when I was changing the water pump, tightened them back up and that mysterious 1 quart between oil changes vanished. Oh yea, it was only the lower bolts that were loose, the ones behind the balancer, not the upper ones, go figure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, It's entirely possible that it's something more simple. At the rate of 2+ quarts every ~200 miles, it's something big. The timing chain cover seal would be a possible explanation for some of the oil trailing down the top and sides of the oil pan. It could also certainly leak while off and create that nice black stream of oil running directly down from the crank seal area. I'm going to go ahead and order everything that I think I'll need, so as to be prepared. If I find that TC cover to be loose, I'll just torque it down, fill it back up with oil and give it a test run for leaks before going further.

Also, do you know if the front crank seal is possibly called the timing cover seal? I've found reference to a timing cover gasket and a seal. Seems like the gasket would be for the cover itself, perhaps the seal for the one dead in the middle of it? Thanks.
 
wow, that is one sexy xj...
the funny part is i was just going to e-mail you this thread then i started thinking "i have seen those oil spots before"... looks like you found it already.
the not funny part is that it is still leaking. sorry 'bout that one.:dunno:
 
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DonkRado said:
Yeah, It's entirely possible that it's something more simple. At the rate of 2+ quarts every ~200 miles, it's something big. The timing chain cover seal would be a possible explanation for some of the oil trailing down the top and sides of the oil pan. It could also certainly leak while off and create that nice black stream of oil running directly down from the crank seal area. I'm going to go ahead and order everything that I think I'll need, so as to be prepared. If I find that TC cover to be loose, I'll just torque it down, fill it back up with oil and give it a test run for leaks before going further.

Also, do you know if the front crank seal is possibly called the timing cover seal? I've found reference to a timing cover gasket and a seal. Seems like the gasket would be for the cover itself, perhaps the seal for the one dead in the middle of it? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's just a seal around the snout of the crank, there is no pressure in that area, just a bath for the chain. You have to pull the balancer to change it though. Might want to do the balancer with a new one as well while you have it apart, they tend to seperate in the middle and walk either in or out over time, out usually takes out the serpentine belt as it tracks wrong, in usually takes out the belt and timing cover as it grinds into it. Don't loose the woodruff key when you take it apart, some new ones come with, some don't.
 
Ok,
Last night was an informative one for me and the XJ.
Going through all of the paperwork, I learned that the engine is not actually a 'new crate engine', but is in fact just a regular reman.
When I went to pull an oil pan bolt so that I could match it and buy replacements for the missing ones, I found out that several of the pan bolts were only finger tight. When I went to remove the valve cover, I found the majority of those bolts to be only finger tight as well. So, it's no wonder that I'm having some serious leaks. I haven't pulled the HD off yet, so I don't know if the timing cover is loose, but I'd say there's a decent chance of it.

At this point, I'm not planning on replacing the HD. It looks to be in good shape, and it should be a simple replacement afterwards if it turns out to be needed. I rented a HD puller and installer, so I'm hoping that stuff should go textbook.
 
Woodruff keys are a couple bucks for an assortment in the "help" section at your local parts place. Wouldn't hurt to pick up a pack just in case.
 
RedHeapOjeep said:
Woodruff keys are a couple bucks for an assortment in the "help" section at your local parts place. Wouldn't hurt to pick up a pack just in case.
Click to expand...
Yep. Got an assortment of them with all of the gear downstairs.

JeepCorrado+005.jpg
 
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Stupid question maybe but why aren't you calling the vendor up and hammering them for another engine done right?
 
If you have had luck like that so far, I would also make sure there isn't an extra rubber seal under the oil filter. On occasion...if their lucky, and forget about the old one the new one gets put on just right as to provide a pretty good seal. Only happened once to me and it wasn't a lucky situation so I noticed it pretty quick.

My .02, if you are like me and my new 90 XJ, oil and filter change is probably on your list. I'm guessing that your don't trust the seller and do it anyway list is getting longer by the minute.

Better luck. If I say it, it has to happen right? Hope you got a good deal on it since the seller probably had the same problems.
 
yardape said:
Stupid question maybe but why aren't you calling the vendor up and hammering them for another engine done right?
Click to expand...

Oops, sorry. I thought you bought an engine,... not a whole used XJ.
 
Yeah. At this point I'm not overly worried about the cost. I was certainly under the impression that things were a bit more square than they are, but for the price I paid.... I'm still ahead of the curve. Now... time to see if I can get the HD off of there.
 
Well, everything is back together short of the oil pump, rear main seal, and oil pan. I trashed the first rear main seal trying to get it in there, so I'm going to go pick up another (or two). Anyone have any tips as to how to install the thing without shredding the outer lip? I put it in the freezer overnight and I put liquid soap on the outside, oil on the inside. What is everyone else using to push the thing into place?
 
Napa will have a cheater tool, piece of plastic coated cable with a screw on the end. you loop the cable over the top of the crank, screw the new top seal into it and then pull it thru. The real way to do it is loosen the crank a bit so it drops a hair, then install.
 
Hmm... I tried dropping the crank a tiny bit to remove the old seal, but got a bit nervous when I started thinking about everything else that lowering it would effect. I went back to the ever so gentle and frustrating hammer and tiny screwdriver method. I wish I knew where my brass punch was.
I intend to finish up the project tomorrow, so you'd be my hero if you could answer two questions for me.
If I were to go about loosening the crank a bit, how many of the bearing caps do I need to loosen?
Ok.. priming the oil pump. I just went around town and no one had a oil pump primer for anything other than a GM or Ford, and neither fit the bill. What exactly do I need to do? Should I pack the pump with vaseline or moly grease? I picked up the longest shafted screwdriver I could find at the store, so I just bust the top off of that, put it in a drill and crank for a few minutes?
Thank you.
 
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