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Do I need an SYE or can I do something cheaper?

mikerhyne

NAXJA Member # 1375
Location
Aurora, CO
Ok so I have a 98xj on 3 to 3.5" of lift (previous owner installed). I have drive line vibes right at the slip yoke (took it up to 70mph on jack stands to identify that). I have a 1" t case drop in it. I'd like to avoid the cost of going to an SYE right now. Would a longer shaft help fix this or changing the rear pinion angle or both? Here are pictures of the drive train - let me know your thoughts.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...LHAGWJL77PE/w1044-h587-no/20141025_101934.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...uWhgpowX_Uc/w1044-h587-no/20141025_101908.jpg
 
Would a longer shaft help fix this or changing the rear pinion angle or both? Here are pictures of the drive train - let me know your thoughts.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...LHAGWJL77PE/w1044-h587-no/20141025_101934.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-...uWhgpowX_Uc/w1044-h587-no/20141025_101908.jpg
A slightly longer driveshaft might be helpful but you have other problems.
You have not adjusted the rear driveshaft's u-joint angles, look up the procedure and set the rear u-joint's angle, using the proper shim,
and then, depending on how much the vibs are reduced, decide how you want to proceed.

You also might want to plan on getting rid of the 2" blocks on the rear springs, they are nothing but trouble and are hell on rear leaf springs.

The 97+ models are more prone to rear driveshaft vibs, many times a SYE, a new CV driveshaft and rear u-joint shims are the only complete cure.
 
Yeah I'm not a fan of the blocks either. The PO lifted it with the stock springs, blocks and shackles. I'd like to go SYE at some point but if I can avoid it I would rather put the money in things like the right springs for the rear to avoid the blocks.

I just am trying to decide what the next step is and if it is an SYE than that is what it is but if I do that then I'll have the tcase rebuilt too.
 
I would un-lift it until you have the funds to fix it right..
 
Rebuilding the transfer case is not necessary. You can leave the front side bolted to the transmission adapter. Just need to split it open and change the main shaft and anything else you see that's wrong. If you want to do a full rebuild that's something else.

Proper lift of that height more or less requires a SYE, pinion shims, adjustable track bar, longer sway bar links or adjustable sway bar links, longer shocks, bump stop modifications, and probably longer brake lines.

To realize what a transfer case drop does to your Jeep, look at the motor mounts and see how they're getting pulled down. See if the exhaust all lines up. Consider that the fill plug of the transfer case is now lower so fluid level is a bit off. Rotating the pinion up (needed even for a SYE) also moves the fill plug down and risks not providing sufficient pinion lubrication. Some use aftermarket covers. Others believe the ring gear slings enough gear oil it won't matter. And the more you rotate your axle, the more the shock mounts get out of whack so relocating them is a good idea.

The extended shackles will cause the pinion to rotate up. It almost looks like its too high based on those pictures. You may need to shim it down. With a standard driveshaft the operating angles of the u-joints at each end should be the same. Allow 2 degrees on the pinion to allow for the pinion raising under torque. So if you've got 9 degrees at the transfer case, you would set it to 7 degrees at the pinion. The more you increase the operating angle of the u-joints the more you shorten their life and expose yourself to vibes. If you're going to throw out the springs you could try with the shims, but I like cal's advise to unlift until its done right.
 
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Thanks for all of the input guys!

I'm not sure unlifting it is cheaper than an SYE since i'd have to come up with all of the stock parts and tires. I have the front done right just trying to decide what is next to address the rear. Sounds like I need to go with an SYE and new springs to get the angles right.

Thanks!
 
You can use a junk yard front driveshaft as the double cardan driveshaft for the rear, so all you really need to buy is the SYE and a tube of Permatex Ultra Grey. At that point you can even temporarily take your driveshaft out and use it in the rear. Make sure you have a 10mm 12 point socket and a GOOD pair of lock ring pliers (Sears, $16). One of the transfer case housing bolts is 10mm 12 point. The lock rings aren't the snap ring type with holes. Allow say $10-50 for seals and bearings if you see any that are going out. For the rear springs, you may need an new center pin bolt if the one you have is not long enough to hold the shim. Get good steel shims, they are only $15-30 at 4wd etc.
 
Hack N Tap, less expensive and basically the same as SYE.
 
I disagree. Far more prone to vibration due to sight movement of the yoke against the spline. Others will refute me 500 times over, but that's my opinion from experience and I'm sticking to it.


I'm with him. A hack and tap is nowhere near the same thing. Yes, you can do a hack and tap, and bolt an old used front driveshaft up and be running for $200 or less.. but you're not *solving any problems*. You're putting poor fitting parts up against worn out crap, and in removing one vibration adding 4 more.

If you're going to drive a lifted jeep, man up. Buy an SYE, install it or pay to have someone else install it. Buy a quality, new driveshaft designed to be on the back of a jeep with a double cardon, and go enjoy your reliable and vibe free drive.

If you aren't prepared to go through that, driving a lifted jeep is not for you... you aren't prepared for the future at all.
 
Im in this future boat right now. I did a yoke style hnt like the one from ironrockoffroad. Worked great till i bent a shaft. It vibrated so much it wore out the splines. Now the yoke wobbles no matter what shaft i put in there.
Im not really sweating it as im swapping in a d300 but i would have chosen different had i known that might happen.
 
There's that, but I more meant just the general expense of driving and wheeling a lifted jeep. If the initial cost of building it right stings you, you aren't prepared for the cost of operating it.

I realize that my case is extreme, but I probably spend $3 maintaining and operating for every $1 I spend building. I wouldn't be surprised to find out its 1.5:1 or 1:1 for most people though.
 
I think my original point of the thread was lost. I was merely looking for the most cost effective way of curing my drive line vibes. As I stated I'd like to avoid the cost of an SYE if I can but if I can't so be it. By all means I'm doing it right just don't want to throw money at something when I don't need too.

My solution is to have my tcase rebuilt with an Terra Flex SYE (while it's open might as well do it right), new springs so I can get rid of the previous owners blocks and shackles, new rear drive shaft however I'll rebuild my front and run that until I get the new one. I'll start with 4 degree shims since that seems to be average for a 3.5" lift. If all that works then I'll look at moving the shock mounts and spring perches to the angle needed.

Owning, maintaining & modifying an XJ (or any vehicle) is certainly fun, time consuming and costly. This is my 4th Jeep, second XJ and favorite one so far with a JKU Rubicon being second.

Thanks!

Mike
 
Advanced Adapters also makes a shaft.

I don't think the original post was lost, just that the only real solution is a SYE so that's the way the thread went.
 
Make sure you use steel shims, and preferable ones that will bolt in to your leaf spring pack.
 
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