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Clutch quit working

D

dannodan

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Denver
OK. I've been lurking around forums for years and got great advice on things but this is the first one I've ever joint so also my first post. Im sure this has been beaten to death in the forum so please point me in the right place.

I had my wife drive my XJ today. She went to put the clutch in at a light. When she did she "heard a pop" and the clutch went to the floor and did not disengage. I came and got her and found I could push the clutch in all the way and use the starter to limp it to the side of the road. I threw it into neutral and started it. When I pushed the clutch in I heard something polishing against something else. Horrible enough description?

I'm mostly wondering if there is a way to figure out what is going on without dropping the tranny. The master has fluid in it but just barely. The previous owner said that he had the clutch done "not to long ago." Could this be a bad clutch install? Throw'out bearing crash? Time for a 2015 F150? Thanks for reading my first post. Feel free to give me crap.

Dan
 
First thing I would do is pull your clutch pedal and make sure the Z-bar isn't bent. I had nearly the exact thing happen to me and that's what had happened. The clutch pedals in these things are pretty notorious for bending after a while. If yours is bent, I would recommend trying to get a new, straight one from a junkyard. (Don't buy a new one, they're like $200. :shocked: ) "Reinforcement" in the form of nice, thick plate steel can be welded in between the Z-bar and the main arm if necessary. The Z-bars only seem to be held on with one, semi-circular weld, so I ended up welding a full circle on that one and putting another full-circle weld on the other side with the new pedal. I did also end up putting a full clutch in since my throw-out bearing was grenaded, so feel free to ask questions about that process.

Bad throwout bearings will make a pretty nasty squealing, grinding noise when the clutch is pushed in. What confirmed for me that the throwout bearing was gone was 1. That noise and 2. Fishing around in the transmission bellhousing for the clutch fork/slave cylinder rod retaining clip with a magnetic pickup tool and pulling out the rolling elements from a ball bearing.
 
The pedal is solid and not bent so I'm thinking something fell off/broke after the slave cylinder. I guess I get to do my first transmission drop. Wish me luck.
 
If the clutch master cylinder is low on fluid, it could have sprung a leak. The slave should be external on yours. The master/slave is a one piece unit. Mopar sells it pre-filled and sealed and ready to go, if that turns out to be the problem.
 
chock the wheels, crawl under it and look to see if the slave is moving when someone steps on the pedal.
if there's no leaking from master/slave then you're likely pulling the trans.

it's possible that the clutch fork let go
the throwout bearing has eaten itself

or any number of bad things that happen in the bellhousing.
 
I've seen that, I've also seen them bent and cracked. I've heard about them breaking, but never personally seen that.


My opinion is unpopular, but I like the internal slave. Given that the hydraulics don't fail the internal slave simply has less bits to go wrong.
 
and some tips for the first time you drop one.

first thing you need to do, remove the shifter. Otherwise you'll break the shift fork when it hangs on the body. BTDT.

What I do is remove the shifter
pull the trans crossmember bolts and drop the tail with a jack under the crossmember a few inches.
Undo the top two trans bolts, the E-12 ones while you have it in this position.
jack the crossmember back up and secure it on the studs.

Now position your trans jack under the trans, undo the large bellhousing to block bolts and remove it.
Don't forget all of the little dust shield screws.
The motor will want to rotate back on it's mounts. Secure it with a stand or jack before you pull the trans or you'll destroy your motor mounts.

While you have it out, consider replacing the input shaft seal. You don't want to be in there again.
 
When this happened to my 97, it was the result of high mileage, and the basic scenario was that the throwout bearing had worn into the clutch diaphragm spring, whereupon it eventually either bound up and snapped, or went through and snapped, trashing the diaphragm spring and the fork. There was really no solution except for a complete new clutch and fork, including the slave cylinder which was also clobbered.

87Manche's solution sounds pretty good, but differs from mine. In my case I had an old transmission jack with no fittings on it (I had long ago set it up for removing old VW Bus engines with a flat table on top), and spent a considerable time fabricating a mount so I could attach the crossmember bolts to it. It seemed like an endless job to get it right, but when the time came to use it, it came out well and more importantly it went back in well. I used the same system to take out the transmission on my 95 and put it into the 97 when the damaged reverse gear got too noisy. A huge job of alignment and fiddling was reduced to about five minutes. If you've ever messed with trying to get the input shaft of a transmission centered using a floppy old jack chained to the box, this is like striking gold.

In any case, whichever way you do it, the time spent in getting a proper transmission jack well attached so you can fine tune the angle will repay you many fold.
 
I'm pretty sure you guys nailed it. I work all week so won't be able to tackle it until the weekend but I'm guessing that something is so broken that the trowout bearing is now binding up. The only way I can start it is to rig the nuetral safety switch. Once it's going it makes a horrible sound if I try and push the clutch in. If I try and start it with the clutch in the drag is so bad it won't even spin and it kills the battery.

Thanks for all of the advice Matt and Manche. Got any pictures of that jack? I was going to try and use a floor jack and a 2x4 but it sounds like I should stop that thinking now.
 
BTW. This Jeep has 300,000 miles and not a single leak. I know it's advised to do the rear main seal but since it isn't leaking am I tempting fate by fixing what's not broken?
 
dannodan said:
BTW. This Jeep has 300,000 miles and not a single leak. I know it's advised to do the rear main seal but since it isn't leaking am I tempting fate by fixing what's not broken?
Click to expand...

Opinions may vary, but I would not touch a seal that is not leaking. Mine also did not leak a drop for its 275+ thousand mile lifetime. Rust shortens the service life up our way, and when I accidentally broke the intake manifold putting it back after an exhaust manifold repair, the combination of rot and immediate need ended its career. By the way, I mistyped earlier. Mine was a 99 not a 97. Best ever. The '95 only got to ~260k, and the 87 only ~235!
 
dannodan said:
I'm pretty sure you guys nailed it. I work all week so won't be able to tackle it until the weekend but I'm guessing that something is so broken that the trowout bearing is now binding up. The only way I can start it is to rig the nuetral safety switch. Once it's going it makes a horrible sound if I try and push the clutch in. If I try and start it with the clutch in the drag is so bad it won't even spin and it kills the battery.

Thanks for all of the advice Matt and Manche. Got any pictures of that jack? I was going to try and use a floor jack and a 2x4 but it sounds like I should stop that thinking now.
Click to expand...

I use a harbor freight trans jack adapter in a regular floor jack.

It's not ideal, as it lacks any way to adjust it after the trans is on it.
I use 2x4's under the trans and strap it down well so that it stays at the same angle it came out at.
It will take you a couple of tries to get it stabbed back in. Don't be discouraged. You'll try three or four times and it seems like it won't ever work, then it just randomly slides in easy as pie. just how it works.

it helps to leave the case in 4wd so you can rotate the front output and rotate the input shaft in the trans.

Since you'll have it out, a new Luk clutch kit with throwout and alignment tool is like $170.
It's the only brand I'll use and they've proven to stand up to much abuse.
 
The jack I have is an old transmission jack someone gave me something like 35 years ago. It leaks fluid, and needs to be refilled every time it's used, and I'm too lazy to find a clean floor to set it up on, but here is a picture of it leaning up against some other stuff. As you can see, it has a very wide stance, and the platform has screw adjustments for tilt on both axes. The pieces of green metal U-beam are screwed directly to the transfer case in place of the rear mount, taking a few minutes to do, but when it's together, it is rigid, finely adjustable, and it rolls on a garage floor or a sheet of plywood.

http://jmp.sh/RbIb1ji
 
I got this all done. Turns out that ridiculous horrible POS plastic throw out bearing that comes in the Luk kit broke. When I got the new kit on amazon a lot of people complained about the plastic part in the reviews so I also got an upgraded steel throw out bearing for $40. I think it's really good insurance money spent against doing this again. Not sure how I would put the picture of it up but it broke at both connections to the shift fork. I cannot believe they use plastic for this. Thanks to everybody on the advice! Very helpful.
 
Take out the slave and see if the plunger is intact. It could also be the pivot spring that popped off or broke.
 
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