Sucessful Dakota lift!!

[cjwalkeriii]

After I was thinking about it, all I want to have is a solid 3-3.5 all around. So if I what can I do to just get 3"? Right now I don't really have the money for all of the mods that 4.5 would need. any idea's besides buying a whole leaf pack?

 

[roXJeepr]

Basically you could do the same thing for 3.5". Trail and error. Get a pair of leaf packs from something in the junkyard, break it loose, break yours loose from your vehicle, mix and match until your desired ride height. Not the easiest or fastest way, but definately the cheapest. You may be able to find someone on here that's done it for 3-3.5" that already has the recipe for you to copy. I think if you could find packs from a MJ, the steps in length might be about right so you wouldn't have to cut ends for the right lengths. I'm thinking that if you took the top 2 leafs from a MJ pack(2wd) and shuffled them into your stock pack, that would be close to what you're looking for. Should still ride and flex well also.

 

[JAS]

After I was thinking about it, all I want to have is a solid 3-3.5 all around. So if I what can I do to just get 3"? Right now I don't really have the money for all of the mods that 4.5 would need. any idea's besides buying a whole leaf pack?

Buy the whole pack and work with it a bit.

I have done the tuning on my Dakota leaf pack to get to 4-5 inches... over a very saggy stock... I guess that I am 3.5 -4 over new stock. I made the mistake of making the lift measurements based on lip of the flair. One bad wheeling trip removed my flairs for me.

For beginners I recommend doing AAL over completely new leafs... Especially if the XJ is from a place that puts salt down in the winter... Building your leaf springs under the jeep will be easier than cutting up the floor to get the spring bolts. This may or may not be an issue for you... but for me I chose to not cut up the floor.

If you do choose new leaf packs for the XJ consider that part of your time may be spent cutting the floor to get to the captured nuts that hold the rear springs.


My lift came with an AAL Leaf so I had the option of XJ leafs, Dakota Leafs plus a very stout AAL leaf.

I run XJ Main, My AAL, Dakota Second, Dakota Third and a 1.5 in block.... I presume that if you replace the AAL leaf with the Dakota Main (eyes cut off) and leave out the block that you should be close to 3 inches.

You should have a new set of u-bolts and center pins on hand.

The XJ springs use a 5/16-center pin and the Dakota uses a 3/8 pin. I then chose to drill the XJ main leaf to accept the larger center pin and the axle mount pad to accept the larger center pinhead.

I built my spring packs 3 times to get them the way that I wanted them

First time Netted close to 3 inches over saggy stock

XJ Main
AAL
Dakota second
Dakota Overload

Issues that I had. Given my choice I would have added another spring but my u-bolts were too short. The jeep pushed the leaves all flat against the very stout Dakota overload spring. This left nearly 0 compression for the spring. Plus Dakota overload was always getting stuffed with mud. It then sagged out about an inch in 1 year.



Second time I had new u-bolts on hand and was not about to make the same mistake with the Dakota overload again.... My stock u-bolts were very small compared to what I received in the mail from RE. The new ones were at least 50% bigger in diameter and the nuts were very tall… i.e. they had about twice the number of threads in them than the stock u-bolt nuts.

XJ Main
AAL
Dakota main (eyes cut)
Dakota second
XJ second trimmed
Dakota third
XJ third trimmed
xj fourth

Issues that I had. A bit too much lift. I guess that it was over 5.5 -6.5 inches over where I was at saggy stock I already had the SYE in so I did not have any vibes. It was after the flares had been removed so I really did not have a good reference point to measure from. It was more than I wanted. Plus it was stiff as a brick. Just driving it to work felt like having Mike Tyson punch me in the kidneys for 30 minutes.


Now.... Having done this 2 times in the past year I did not wish to repeat any past mistakes.

When I bought the new u-bolts they came with a 1.5 inch tapered block. The block would help with getting the pinion angles a bit better. Here in Michigan you can run up to a 2-inch block so I knew that I was still legal.

XJ Main
AAL
Dakota second
Dakota third
1.5 inch block

The only issues that I have are that I can not get the jeep onto the bump stops, and I have to come here and tell people that I lifted my jeep with blocks… I know that they can lead to spring wrap and with bigger tires spring wrap may become an issue for me. Believe that it rides too bad for a lifted XJ. It is not stock but I have now issues running at 70+ MPH. It drives true and straight and does not damage the kidneys.

I suspect that if I want to increase the flex I need a longer shackle to allow the spring to flatten out a bit more.


Here are some pics

Stock - > http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/before.jpg

First homebrew spring pack -> http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/After.JPG

Second Homebrew spring pack with new tires -> http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/newtires.JPG

 

[junkjeep]

Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly. You now have 9 or 10 leafs in one pack? You gained like 1.75" just in leaf thickness? Is this what you're saying?

You remove all of the xj springs except the main spring and then install the dakota or s-10 springs.

 

[roXJeepr]

You remove all of the xj springs except the main spring and then install the dakota or s-10 springs.

Is this a question? Or are you telling me this? What you quoted me on was my reply to Vegas Anthony, and he did NOT do what you just said. THAT is why I was asking. I know what you're saying, and that's what I did. Although I'm not really happy with it. I'm using my stock main leaf with the full dakota pack under it minus the dak overloads and with the dak eyes cut off mains. I also used my xj bottom leaf on the pass side for various reasons.

 

[cjwalkeriii]

JAs, thanks for the extensive right up, I appreciate it. Thanks to everyone else also, there is some good stuff in this thread. I guess all I can do is start playing around. One last question... how long does it take for leafs to "break in" to normal ride height.

 

[roXJeepr]

Wheel them hard after you put them together.... they'll be broke in.

 

[Dragline]

The XJ springs use a 5/16-center pin and the Dakota uses a 3/8 pin. I then chose to drill the XJ main leaf to accept the larger center pin and the axle mount pad to accept the larger center pinhead.

Rather than drill out the holes on the XJ leafs and the axle mount pad, could I just use a grade 8 washer or two and still use a 5/16 center pin? I plan on mixing and matching the two packs to achieve the desired lift, so I would probably have to drill more than just the XJ main leaf. I only ask because I assume I will need a cobalt drill bit, which will probably cost as much as I paid for both dakota leaf packs.

 

[JAS]

Rather than drill out the holes on the XJ leafs and the axle mount pad, could I just use a grade 8 washer or two and still use a 5/16 center pin? I plan on mixing and matching the two packs to achieve the desired lift, so I would probably have to drill more than just the XJ main leaf. I only ask because I assume I will need a cobalt drill bit, which will probably cost as much as I paid for both dakota leaf packs.

I do not have enough experiance to know if washers will work or not. I choose to drill out the XJ leafs.

I do not know if you even need washers as long as you have the XJ main on the top... That will be the nut end of the center pin. You will have the u-bolt plate that sits on top of the spring. The hole for the center pin just clears the nut. I fear that a washer would prevent the u-bolt plate from seating properly on the top of the spring. Plus the XJ Main already is sized for a 5/16 center pin.

I am not sure that a washer on the bottom would be a good thing. The full head of the center pin fits inside the spring pearch. I believe that a washer would then prevent the bottom of the spring pack from sitting correctly on spring perch. You could build a small spacer that had the same foot print as the spring perch and a hole sized to clear the 5/16 center pin. I do not believe that a simple washer would be a good idea.

The drill press did the hard work on the xj leafs that came off the jeep. In the end I did not even use anything but the XJ main leafs. None of the other XJ leafs made it into my final spring packs

For the XJ Mains that stayed on the jeep I used a very slow 1/2 drive drill and I would drill a while and then re-sharpen them. (Drill Doctors Rock) At the time it felt like it took for ever. I think it was over an hour each to drill the main leafs...with lots of sweat. I had 2, 13/32 drill bits... I would dull both, sharpen both, and rest a spell.

My drill press is not quite big enough to tip the jeep over to drill out the mains. LOL....

I know that I did not use cobolt drills, but I did buy good ones.

The spring perch drilled to 5/8 real easy. That took only about 5 minutes per side. It is just mild steel.

I have heard of people just using the 5/16 center pin... I just choose not to. It did not feel right...I have no real experiance to say that you have to use the 3/8 center pin... When I had the 5/16 pin in the dakota leafs... That hole looked huge.

Maybe somebody else here can comment on the size of the center pin. I have never even heard of anybody breaking a center pin.

 

[Dragline]

I was thinking about using the Dakota overload spring on the bottom, so I was afraid the smaller center pin would have too small of a head to hold. I was going to use the overload spring to try and prevent spring wrap.

 

[roXJeepr]

If you're going for any kind of flex on the compression side, don't use the dakota overloads. If you're building for hauling or something like that, then go ahead. As far as the drill bit, a masonry or concrete bit works pretty well. If you have access to a drill press, use it. You could do it with a hand drill but it probably won't be fun, and... cutting fluid is your friend.

 

[JAS]

I was thinking that I would use the overload to limit spring wrap and to keep it off the bump stops and keep the tires off the sheet metal. .. my 31 inch tires and lack of rocks here in michigan meant that spring wrap is not a big issue for me. My jeep was also a daily driver up until 4 weeks ago. I wheeled it like a daily driver also.

The dakota springs have a higher rate and for me the lack of clearance ment that I was always stuffing the over load full of dirt, mud, sticks. The heavier dakota spring packs do not have the wraping issues that the lighter stock springs have.

So far I have not had an issue with spring wrap. I am keeping my fingers crossed also.

As for the fear of the 5/16 center pin on the bottom dakota spring... That is what prompted me to drill out the XJ leafs. Again my set up is 4+ inches.. tall over stock XJ Main -> AAL -> Dakota Second -> Dakota third -> 1.5 inch block.

I think I have resonable flex for a mild build up. I think my next mod for more flex will be a longer shackle that will allow the spring to flatten out more during compression.

 

[cjwalkeriii]

Ya know, I don't even think I realized you were using a 1.5" block. So without that, and the same configuration you using, I should be in a solid 3" range, correct?

 

[JAS]

Ya know, I don't even think I realized you were using a 1.5" block. So without that, and the same configuration you using, I should be in a solid 3" range, correct?

I do believe that it will be close. Many variables are involved but I believe that it will be close. It is the chance you take when desiging and building suspensions from scrap yard parts....Or taking advice from the internet.

As a first try I would go....

XJ Main -> Dakota Main (eyes cut) -> Daktoa Second -> Dakota third -> XJ fourth. At the very least the XJ fourth will provide the correct size center pin hole and 1/4 inch of lift.

Reason...

The RE AAL is one mother of a leaf. It is to provide 2.5 inches of lift by itself. It had a much higher spring rate than the Dakota Main leaf. The Dakota Main was soft enough that my weight on in would flatten it out completely on the concrete floor.


Here are some pix.
This is my first setup.. XJ main - AAL - Dakota second - Dakota overload. My u-bolts were too short for the spring packs that I wanted. This is what I settled on because the jeep was a DD and it needed to get to work on Monday come hell or high water. This did get me about 2 3/4 over where I was at saggy stock.

This is the one that had little to no compression... Note how little travel there is until the jeep was completly on the overload spring
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/AxleBackInPlace.JPG

Here is one of the jeep saggy stock
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/before.jpg

Here is one after the first lift.
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/After.JPG

XJ vs Dakota arches... The Dakota springs have more arch
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/XJ_vs_Dakota_arches.JPG

Here are the springs with the dakota leafs on the right and the XJ on the left of the AAL.. (it is the new looking one) On the left I wanted to show how close the arch of the dakota springs were to the AAL. At this point in time I was not going to use the Dakota main. I was planning on keeping it until I went higher.
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/XJ_vs_Dakota.JPG


Now.... I just have to post this up... This is my rig posing at a local scramble area.
http://webpages.charter.net/laurajeff44/MIJeeps/flexn_Oct2005.JPG

Jeff

 

[roXJeepr]

It is the chance you take when desiging and building suspensions from scrap yard parts....Or taking advice from the internet.

As a first try I would go....

XJ Main -> Dakota Main (eyes cut) -> Daktoa Second -> Dakota third -> XJ fourth. At the very least the XJ fourth will provide the correct size center pin hole and 1/4 inch of lift.

In blue is what I did on mine and it got me 4-4.5" Just to add my opinion on the RE AAL... big POS! I'll have to take some pics of mine that USED to be on my xj... the reason for me doing the dakpak in the first place.

 

[cjwalkeriii]

Ok, well right now I have a rusty's aal. would you consider this comprable to a re in lift characteristics?

 

[roXJeepr]

Don't get me wrong on the RE as far as lift goes. It will get you about 3". However, if you do any wheeling on it, that 3" won't last long and it won't be level very long either. Or at least in my experience it won't.
I've never used Rusty's but I would dare say that an AAL is an AAL.

 

[fryed_1]

I'll be doing the same this weekend making a few packs. I can get S10/dakota packs for $35/pair here locally, so I'm going to go ahead and rebuild all 3 leaf packs while they're so cheap.

My main already has a RE 4.5" leaf pack, but I have blocks for now to get it up another 3" or so. So I'll be combining the main and 2nd leaf from the 4.5 pack, then the donor pack and the last from the RE pack, plus the overload. That should net me 6+ from the leaf pack alone, then 1-1.5" shackles will help them flex without killing them too much.

The others I'm just looking to get 2-3" out of and shouldn't be too hard and keep a stock quality ride. I'm keeping the overload in one of them since it will be my tow vehicle.

 

[JAS]

In blue is what I did on mine and it got me 4-4.5" Just to add my opinion on the RE AAL... big POS! I'll have to take some pics of mine that USED to be on my xj... the reason for me doing the dakpak in the first place.

You got 4-4.5 from this lift ???? ....Could you post up some pix ? If this is true that means that I am perhaps closer to 6 inches of lift on the back of my jeep. That sounds high to me...

As far as AAL being a POS... The reason they are known for this is because they are a single HIGH arch leaf that is normally put in pack that is much flater...AKA the many leafs wear down the one leaf.

When they are put into a spring pack that has higher natral arch they do not wear down because they are not pushing against the other leafs as hard... AKA The many leafs are ALL working in unison....

They are nothing more than a very stout leaf. No better, no worst than any other leaf.

 

[jeepsta]

after 4 hours of non english speaking junk yard guys telling me i couldn't do it and offering me used leafs for 135 bucks, i got mine for 40 bucks. haven't gotten a chance to put them in yet, but what is a cheap alternative for the front?