Radiator plastic drain-petcock replacement

[birchlakeXJ]

Wow, who would have thought that you'd have ANOTHER petcock problem! And with the new radiator now none the less. Very strange.

I personally am not sure of the best way to proceed with sealing this hole. I am subscribed though and would like to hear of what others have to say. You don't have a radiator repair shop anywhere near you do you? They might have an idea.

There has to be a way to do it, BUT it should be with a material that you can trust that it won't fail in 6 months.

Good luck to you and keep us updated.

 

[br1anstorm]

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Mainland Europe may be a source - LHD XJs were sold there when Jeep was linked with Renault. But still not easy to track down a radiator.

Meanwhile, still thinking about how to rescue my "new" but damaged radiator, and seeking Mr Google's help, I came across these - see this site http://www.iboats.com/Seasense-Bait...54618967--session_id.096418812--view_id.56065 for illustrations.

Not sure if I can find them in a UK marine supplies shop - but I wonder if a plug like this would fit the hole, make a decent seal, and withstand the heat and pressure?

 

[birchlakeXJ]

I checked the link. I use those plugs in two of my boats, but I would definitely not want to use them in a radiator. I'm quite sure that they would not stand up to the heat and definitely not the pressure.

Keep pounding the internet for a new radiator!

 

[shanesaw]

If your radiator is an American part then the petcock drain should be 3/8NPT (National Pipe Thread). You can use a 3/8 plug or do like I did and put a 3/8 pipe with elbow for drainage and then use a cap on that. I used brass fittings but you could just as easily use galvanized if you have that sort of thing over there. Don't know the common availability of brass or galv pipe in American sizes there but if you can find a good plumbing supply they might be able to find it for you.

 

[br1anstorm]

Thanks for the boating advice, and the encouragement, birchlake! I'm looking at some possible sources in Europe.

But it still bugs me that I already have a brand new Valeo (p/n 732552, made in USA) OEM replacement radiator, all perfect except for the bashed-in plastic petcock/drain plug. The petcock design is rubbish: it's a twist-top plug with an O-ring, which ought to be held in by two plastic 'teeth' or lugs on the inside neck of the stubby tube. That's all been broken. The little stub of tube (the housing for the plug) such as it is, is not threaded. There is just a 1" or so stub of plain smooth plastic pipe sticking out, with a smaller pipe tee'd off it. So I can't do a repair using screw-in threaded brass fittings as shanesaw suggests. I can't even cut a thread into the inside of that pipe (where the petcock was supposed to go) as the plastic stub pipe is too thin.

So the design is unlike (and worse than) the old original, where the plug was like a plastic hex-nut with a tube through the middle which screwed into the threaded hole at the bottom of the old rad tank. I did find a suitable bolt with a US-size (5/8"-18 UNF, I think) thread which I was able to use temporarily to stop up the hole in the old rad while flushing etc.

But my old rad is definitely shot, so I have to fit a new one. I'd just like to find an effective way of permanently sealing the hole in the new radiator I've got, so that I can use it!

If those boat-plugs won't do, the only other trick I can think of is to slip a small - say 4" to 6" - length of heater-hose on to the little stub of 'pipe', clamp it as tight as I can with a jubilee clip, and then plug the other end of the pipe somehow: perhaps push a threaded bolt of the right diameter into the open (downward) end of the hose and clamp that end too? I vaguely recall seeing another post on the forum which described something like that, but I can't find it again! Not sure how permanent a fix that might be. But if it holds, one advantage of that arrangement is that you then have a convenient and accessible drain hose hanging down below or behind headlight/bumper, which makes future coolant change a lot easier.

Any comments on such improvised solutions would be welcome!

 

[bigdaddyjlove]

Seems like I'm missing something obvious, but are there not any radiator shops over there? They are harder to find here than they used to be, but there are still shops that specialize in these things, and they can usually perform just short of miraculous tasks.

 

[weebur]

The story in this thread ain't over yet. Life with an XJ is full of highs and lows. I now need a different kind of advice.

I thought I'd benefited from a minor miracle, finding a brand new OEM (made by Valeo) radiator over here in UK that would fit my LHD XJ. I had started flushing and removing the old one - and in doing so discovered that the cooling fins were in a bad way. All the more reason for putting in a replacement.

So, the new one arrived, and yep, it's all shiny and the correct part. It was in its original box, but not brilliantly packed (just a few bits of polystyrene, cardboad and shredded paper), so the rad could slide around loose inside. I checked it over. Disaster.

Somewhere along the way from factory to warehouse to parts dealer to me, the box had obviously been thrown or dropped on its end, and the left-side end of the rad, where the petcock is, had been banged (on the floor?). I found that the plastic drain-petcock (a different design from the one on my vehicle) which fits into a little plastic pipe-shaped mounting on the rad, had been stoved in. The petcock was in three pieces, wedged into the 'pipe', which was cracked, and the plastic moulded lugs which should hold it in place on the inner end of the 'pipe', inside the tank, had sheared off.

Despair. Finding another new rad for an LHD XJ over here is almost impossible, and an order from the US is totally unaffordable.

So - my question. How can I rescue this new rad and make it usable? The obvious solution is somehow to seal up, permanently, this hole at the bottom of the new rad where the drain-plug should be. I'd like to know how others have done it, because I can see some problems.

• it's all plastic, not metal, so no scope to seal up the hole by normal welding or brazing;
• there is no threaded hole, so I can't just fit a bolt and washer/O-ring (as I have done temporarily on the old, original rad);
• the 1" plastic pipe that projects out of the bottom corner of the plastic rad moulding and into which the petcock would fit, is cracked, and anyway has a little drain-pipe tee'd off it, so I can't just clamp a hose over it and then find a way of clamping the hose shut;
• the whole piece (each side, or end 'tank' of the rad) is some kind of hard black plastic moulding. Most epoxy and superglue won't bond well to such material, so I'm not sure if I can glue a "bung" or plug into the hole which will withstand the heat and pressure.

I'm really reluctant to junk an otherwise brand-new radiator. But I need to find a 100% sure way of sealing up the hole which that b****** petcock was supposed to fit into.

Help!

Since "A picture is worth a thousand words"...how about shooting us a couple of good photos. There's a lot a brainpower here at your disposal. While we're waiting keep in mind that there is special adhesives for polypropylene/polyethylene/plastic. Some years ago I made a repair on this type of material by roughing up both surfaces using 40-grit paper. I don't know if a repair like that would hold up to 15psi, though.

 

[br1anstorm]

This could yet turn into an epic story...

First off, for Weebur and others who might be following the adventure: yes it has occurred to me to take and post up some pics, and I'll do just that. I know from experience how useful that can be for others wrestling with the same problem. So pics to follow soon.

Second, for bigdaddyjlove: yes, there are still some radiator fabrication/repair shops around - over here as well as no doubt in the US. But they are almost all experts in making or repairing metal radiators (copper, brass, aluminium etc). There are places that can re-do the core (the finned central section), and re-weld, braze or machine tanks and pipes. TThey do good skilled work, but these days, like any other custom-built parts, this can get expensive.

Unfortunately manufacturers in their infinite wisdom have gone over to using bits of moulded plastic - which ages, gets brittle, cracks, and is vulnerable to impact. Rad shops can rarely repair these plastic pieces. Even DIY plastic welding is a messy and unsatisfactory business.

I talked to my local rad/engineering shop. The best he could suggest was to epoxy the petcock as a plug into the hole as a permanent seal - though that depends on the type and effectiveness of the glue.

But there's good news from today's research - see next post....

 

[br1anstorm]

Pictures to follow, but here's the latest good news.

Not far from me is an industrial estate with a lot of specialist firms working for the North Sea offshore oil industry. Today I went to pick up a piece of hose of the right diameter to fit over the plastic stub-pipe and clamp into place. I went to a hydraulics workshop. Turned out that there isn't any hose that would fit (the little plastic stub pipe - the petcock housing - is 23mm diameter, and there's no hose with that internal diameter).

The guy looked at the problem and came up with what seems like a brilliant solution: fit a "top-hat"! This does need pictures.... but the idea was as follows

Get a suitably sized steel or brass 5/8" bulkhead union connection, cut one threaded end off, round off the hex to make the 'brim' of the top hat. The other threaded end is the main part of the hat (which you will put through the hole from the inside and - eventually - close with a screw-on cap).

Then ... cut off the plastic stub pipe so you just have a 5/8" hole in the plastic. Put an O-ring or washer on to the top-hat fitting and insert it into the tank on a piece of wire via the upper hose connection point (which is big enough to allow that) and manoeuver it down inside the tank so that eventually the threaded part of the top-hat projects through the drain hole.

Then spin a nut on to that threaded end to hold it tight into the hole, put a cap on it to seal it, and job's done - and you have a robust, permanent and effective drain plug as well!

It took the guy 10 minutes to machine the 'top-hat' for me. Sounds a bit like brain surgery to get the thing into position in the hole in the tank, but I'm about to spend the weekend trying to do it. If it works, pics will follow. If it doesn't, stand by for some very bad language....

 

[br1anstorm]

Just as a small distraction... it seems that Jeeps are not the only vehicles to suffer petcock and coolant-drainage problems.

I came across this web-page http://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/944RADDRAIN.html
which illustrates a kit one specialist has devised for Porsches. Quite neat.

I was thinking of doing something like this with a piece of hose (if I could find the right size). I do like the valve-fitting at the end of the hose.

 

[birchlakeXJ]

Br1anstorm,

You certainly are making progress. Good idea to seek ideas from people that are more inventive than we are. How does the saying go...."necessity is the mother of invention"??
Or "where there is a will, there is a way". Both seem to apply here..

Good luck and yes, PICS please! Keep us updated.

 

[carves]

Pictures to follow, but here's the latest good news.

Not far from me is an industrial estate with a lot of specialist firms working for the North Sea offshore oil industry. Today I went to pick up a piece of hose of the right diameter to fit over the plastic stub-pipe and clamp into place. I went to a hydraulics workshop. Turned out that there isn't any hose that would fit (the little plastic stub pipe - the petcock housing - is 23mm diameter, and there's no hose with that internal diameter).

The guy looked at the problem and came up with what seems like a brilliant solution: fit a "top-hat"! This does need pictures.... but the idea was as follows

Get a suitably sized steel or brass 5/8" bulkhead union connection, cut one threaded end off, round off the hex to make the 'brim' of the top hat. The other threaded end is the main part of the hat (which you will put through the hole from the inside and - eventually - close with a screw-on cap).

Then ... cut off the plastic stub pipe so you just have a 5/8" hole in the plastic. Put an O-ring or washer on to the top-hat fitting and insert it into the tank on a piece of wire via the upper hose connection point (which is big enough to allow that) and manoeuver it down inside the tank so that eventually the threaded part of the top-hat projects through the drain hole.

Then spin a nut on to that threaded end to hold it tight into the hole, put a cap on it to seal it, and job's done - and you have a robust, permanent and effective drain plug as well!

It took the guy 10 minutes to machine the 'top-hat' for me. Sounds a bit like brain surgery to get the thing into position in the hole in the tank, but I'm about to spend the weekend trying to do it. If it works, pics will follow. If it doesn't, stand by for some very bad language....

I'd be real surprised if there isnt some cussin & cursin happening ... even if it does work ... :laugh:

Maybe feed the wire through the two holes first ... and slide your "tophat" down it ???

Worst case scenaro ... a shop could remove the inlet tank, let you place and seal the new bung .... and crimp it all back together for you.

LHD / RHD radiators are interchangable ... the difference is the stupidity of having the tranny oil, heat exchanger - in the RHD versions, hot side of the radiator ... so some oil cooler, line, rethinking may need to a happen - depending on your driving requirements.

Various epoxies, plastic welding etc are all possible methods of repair.

... and theres no "wisdom" in the use of plastic & alloy radiators ... Just a corporate cost saving in manufacturing costs - compared to copper/brass ones.

 

[br1anstorm]

Okay - this is for regular readers like birchlakeXJ and others who have asked for pics (and for those who may read this in the future).

I haven't tried uploading photos before, and it seems I can't simply attach them to this post. So I have put them up on the Photobucket site. Anyone interested should be able to see the whole set at this link:

http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/br1anstorm/Jeep XJ radiator 2012/

I hope the pics are visible (if not, let me know) and that it's obvious what they are. I have added brief notes. The first couple of pics should show my old radiator, still in place, with a bolt being used as a temporary plug in the petcock hole (which is threaded), and a close-up of the old, damaged petcock (the inner end of it had simply broken off). Then there are some pics of the new Valeo radiator - or at least the right hand end "tank" and the petcock location - and some pics of the new petcock and the damage. Finally some pics of one - possible - solution if I can actually fit it!

 

[birchlakeXJ]

Photobucket works fine Br1anstorm; those pics load fine.

Really looks like you are onto something here with the "top hat" fix.

Now to execute and finish the job! Let us know how it turns out. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[br1anstorm]

OK, an update on my latest thinking.

I'm weighing up two options. Plan A is inspired by that Porsche adapter kit I put up a link to three or four posts ago. I like the idea of a hose with something on the end to enable easier draining in future. This is plan A, because it involves keeping and using the plastic stub pipe (the housing of the original petcock on the new radiator). I would have to remove, and seal with epoxy, the little drain-pipe that is tee'd off that stub. The outer diameter of the stub pipe/housing is 23mm or 7/8 inch, and I have found some radiator hose that will fit on to it. I can't find a small lever valve to go into the other end of the hose as in the Porsche kit, so I will probably just plug it with a bolt or end-cap.

If that works, fine, and I have an easy-access drain for the next time I change coolant. If it doesn't work, then Plan B involves cutting off the stub pipe flush, leaving just a hole (this is an irreversible move, which is why it's plan B). Then I would try to insert the "top-hat" fitting from inside, fix it in place and close it with the screw-on cap.

More pics when I get to work on the first option....

 

[br1anstorm]

For anyone who is still following the story (or wants to do something similar) here's the latest.

As the stub-pipe on the new radiator where the petcock should fit was cracked, I decided to strengthen it as well as removing and sealing the little drain-pipe hole which was tee'd off it. So I lined the stub pipe with a 15mm copper plumbing joint, and fixed it in - and plugged the hole at the side - with epoxy.

Then I fitted a 22-15mm copper reducer into one end of my piece of flexible hose, with a small section of 15mm copper tube, and then a ballvalve, on to the end of which I fitted a cap. So now I have a custom drain-hose which can hang down behind the headlight and front bumper (=fender).

I have added some more pics here

http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/br1anstorm/Jeep%20XJ%20radiator%202012/

For those who want a fright, I have also added some photos of the old radiator which i removed. After 19 years it is disintegrating. Just as well I decided to change it rather than simply plug the leaky petcock...

Next and final stage - to install the new radiator and hoses. Before I do that, I plan to clean up the rusty a/c pipes and adjust the belt tension while I have some space to work in.

 

[xjwisconsin]

WOW! thats one f-d up radiator.

 

[birchlakeXJ]

After looking at the pics, I think it is safe to say that leaving the old radiator in was NOT an option! 19 years is pretty good service life, don't you think?

Good luck on the retrofit. Keep us updated.

 

[carves]

19yrs ... heh heh

You certainly got your moneys worth out of that one ...

Thanks for the followup info & pics.

 

[weebur]

Forgive me if you have mentioned this already but did you look into the carrier (UPS/FEDEX) regarding their gorillas handling of the package and possible replacement of the part? Or the seller for its poor packaging?

The last radiator I got was packaged with styrofoam insets at the top and bottom that would have protected the corners in case of a reasonable drop.