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  #1  
Old December 9th, 2003, 13:31
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Christopher Christopher is offline
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Traction Bars

Well, I've got some considerable axle wrap and was wonder if any one knows or has an opinion on the best traction bar out there, and the best / most reasonable place to pick one up?
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  #2  
Old December 9th, 2003, 14:14
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BrettM BrettM is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

i'm pretty sure there is nothing bolt-on available for the XJ, so as long as you're doing some cutting and welding, you might as well make the whole thing.
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  #3  
Old December 9th, 2003, 16:23
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Wiley Coyote Wiley Coyote is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

JC Whitney had some traction bars for XJs that mounted on the rear u-bolts. The front end looked like a ball joint and mounted to the cross member in front of the rear axle. The whole assemble is threaded so you could adjust it for different heights. It requires you to drill holes in the cross member for the mounting bracket. I remember that they were cheap (less than $90), but I have no idea how well they work.

Terry
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  #4  
Old December 10th, 2003, 06:56
rsalemi rsalemi is offline
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Re: Traction Bars Cal Tracs

CalTracs makes a bolt on traction bar setup for XJ/MJ. Just put one on my MJ.
661-948-1490
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  #5  
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:56
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Re: Traction Bars

Sam's Offroad sells one, and I'm sure it can be adapted to an XJ. The issue will be the length and the front mounting point. I'm sure others are available, but I don't know where they are.

Sam's Offroad traction bar

The other traction bars, like the JC Whitney unit, will bind up when articulating and aren't good for off roading. The traction bar needs to move around and pivot at the front mount for our application.
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  #6  
Old December 10th, 2003, 10:58
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Re: Traction Bars

Couldn't the JC unit be made to pivot?
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  #7  
Old December 10th, 2003, 11:02
MrShoeBoy MrShoeBoy is offline
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Re: Traction Bars Cal Tracs

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalemi
CalTracs makes a bolt on traction bar setup for XJ/MJ. Just put one on my MJ.
661-948-1490

Do you have any pics of this traction bar? Does it work well and not bind when flexed? How much did it cost?

I am planning on building mine but theres some geometry that I dont understand how the traction bar will effect. Do a search with my name and its all listed there.

AARON
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  #8  
Old December 10th, 2003, 11:37
gearwhine gearwhine is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

MrShoeBoy, I've chatted with you before about the geometry over on JU I think. I started mine a few weeks ago, but then had to go back to school. I will be finishing it up in about 2 weeks or so when I go back home. What I have found by reading and talking to others (no personnal experience yet):

-Traction bars cause anti-squat, you know that already.

Long bars
-The longer it is (say up to the crossmember) will give less antisquat than having a shorter one.
-If the pivot's at your T-case driveshaft u-joint and the bar is the same length as the driveshaft, you will completely get rid of u-joint bind.
-Since it reduces driveline bind, you get suspension bind since the t-bar and the springs are not moving in relation to each other.

Short bars
-The shorter the bar (say front leaf spring eye) will give more antisquat than a longer bar.
-If the pivot is lined up with your front spring eyes, this should get rid of suspension bind, but will not stop u-joint bind under extreme flex (but who cares, most u-joints are broken from spring wrap, which you've stoped, right)

I made mine pivoting with my leaf springs to reduce suspension bind through it's travel, with the shackle pointing up for ground clearance. (not sure what pointing it up or down will do to it) I had to cut into my floor quite a bit for this to work, I've still got some more cutting to do, then welding it all up. The bracket is 1.25" .120 wall cromoly.





One thing I'm never doign again is welding to my axle with it under the truck. I'm not good at that contortionist welding. My axle bracket is the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. I'm going to pull it and redo it all.
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  #9  
Old December 10th, 2003, 12:06
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Goatman Goatman is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

I don't get the thing about suspension bind.....in fact I totally disagree. The idea with a single link traction bar that allows movement at the front pivot point is so that there will be no suspension bind. As the axle articulates, the traction bar can pivot (twist) at the front joint. As the axle moves slightly fore and aft as the suspension cycles, the front mount allows for this movement so there is no bind. It makes little, actually no difference if the front traction bar mount is even with the spring eye or even with the driveline u-joint, since the shackle/heim joint/whatever front traction bar mount allows the bar to move fore and aft with the axle. The combination of the front mount and bushings on the axle mount also allow for some sideways movement, so still no binding.

The concept is a single traction bar with a front mount that allows movement in all directions except up and down. The suspension is free to move, but the axle cannot rotate up or down with the force of torque.

Also, there's nothing wrong with a little anti-squat on an XJ, which many times is loaded down with gear. I'm going to re-design my current bar to increase the anti-squat, since I liked my old one better that had more.




I did mine with two heim joints because it allows for better side to side movement and it fit better in the limited space we have under our XJ's.
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  #10  
Old December 10th, 2003, 12:43
gearwhine gearwhine is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

the twist and the shackle movement is not what binds. It is the twist of the axle as it travels. As the axle droops, the axle twists a bit pointing the pinion up (traction bar or not), therefore also forceing the traction bar to point up at a more extreme angle, that's what causes the anti-squat, but that's what also causes the bind if I'm correct. With the longer bar, the end of the traction bar will want to move to a hgiher height than the springs will allow. I hope my thinking is clear. Search pirate, there are some good posts about it. _nicko_
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  #11  
Old December 10th, 2003, 13:21
MrShoeBoy MrShoeBoy is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

Gearwhine thats a hot setup What does the inside of the cab look like with the traction bar coming up through the floor? What space did it kill?

So whats not to like the contortionist welding thing? Dont tell me you cant handle the splatter falling down on you from above burning through your clothing then sitting on your skin. Its not THAT hot

When talking about antisquat, just to clairify, thats the force that compresses the springs when power is applied? Like you hit the gas and the rear squats.

So Goatman, you are going to build a shorter traction bar to reduce the amount of antisquat? Will that have any effect on the ledge climbing ability of the Jeep? Then does this effect the street handling when carrying a load?

AARON
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  #12  
Old December 10th, 2003, 13:46
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Re: Traction Bars

Quote:
When talking about antisquat, just to clairify, thats the force that compresses the springs when power is applied? Like you hit the gas and the rear squats.
The higher the percentage of ANTI-squat, the more the rear end RISES under acceleration. General Rule: 100% is neutral, anything less, the rear quats. Anything more, it rises.

CRASH
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  #13  
Old December 10th, 2003, 13:46
gearwhine gearwhine is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShoeBoy
Gearwhine thats a hot setup What does the inside of the cab look like with the traction bar coming up through the floor? What space did it kill?
The box to cover it all will stick out of the floor about 6" high. It goes about 5" or so into the rear seat foot space, and all the way back under the seat. I can say there is no useful lost space whatsoever. I can still fit all my goodies that I had under the seat back under there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShoeBoy
So whats not to like the contortionist welding thing? Dont tell me you cant handle the splatter falling down on you from above burning through your clothing then sitting on your skin. Its not THAT hot
Ha, I don't mind the splatter, I've got a pretty welding jacket. The worst part is it burning through your shoes right to your toes, that's not a fun one. It's even worse when it gets inbetween your toes. Time for boots for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShoeBoy
When talking about antisquat, just to clairify, thats the force that compresses the springs when power is applied? Like you hit the gas and the rear squats.
Anti-squat is the force resisting the squat, so you are right. When powers is applied, the rear wants to lower to the ground (squat), but the traction bar will resist that and raise it away from the ground causing anti-squat.
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  #14  
Old December 10th, 2003, 15:52
MrShoeBoy MrShoeBoy is offline
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Re: Traction Bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRASH
The higher the percentage of ANTI-squat, the more the rear end RISES under acceleration. General Rule: 100% is neutral, anything less, the rear quats. Anything more, it rises.
CRASH
I understand the term of antisquat, now for the fun question: How do you determine antisquat with the traction bar?

Is it the same as you would calculate antisquat for a 4 link?

My goal is for the traction bar to be transparent in the way the suspension functions, keeping all the current specs or characteristics but resisting axle wrap. Man, talk about demanding!

Quote:
Ha, I don't mind the splatter, I've got a pretty welding jacket. The worst part is it burning through your shoes right to your toes, that's not a fun one. It's even worse when it gets inbetween your toes. Time for boots for me.
I got something better Hot Metal on Nuts! Instead of the splatter burning through your shoe, its the crotch of your pants..... I never had this experiance but I know a friend who has, sorry Andy.

AARON
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  #15  
Old December 10th, 2003, 21:10
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Re: Traction Bars

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearwhine
the twist and the shackle movement is not what binds. It is the twist of the axle as it travels. As the axle droops, the axle twists a bit pointing the pinion up (traction bar or not), therefore also forceing the traction bar to point up at a more extreme angle, that's what causes the anti-squat, but that's what also causes the bind if I'm correct. With the longer bar, the end of the traction bar will want to move to a hgiher height than the springs will allow. I hope my thinking is clear. Search pirate, there are some good posts about it. _nicko_
Well, nicko, let's talk about this.

Any binding of the suspension would be a concern when articulating, and I don't see any motion when articulating that will bind the suspension against this type of traction bar. There would be a very slight force sideways on the bar as one wheel is up and the other down (very slight rear steer), but this will easily be absorbed by the bushings or shackle, or very easily in the double heim mount that I use.

As far as the pinion pointing up as the whole axle drops, this is marginally true depending on the springs, but it won't happen much, if at all, in a leaf spring suspension. Even if it did, it makes no difference since the traction bar angle moves as the axle moves and would go with any pinion angle change. To any degree that the twist of the axle and the traction bar would work against each other (if it did at all), it would be absorbed by an extremely slight movement of the leaf springs, which would affect nothing. So, I don't see any situation where a properly built traction bar of this design would bind the suspension. Also, I've read threads on POR about this, and I have seen a few talk about some suspension bind, but I don't agree with them.

Anti-squat isn't from any suspension movement trying to force the bar up, it's from engine torgue trying to twist the pinion up and that force working against the bar, pushing up on the vehicle. That is what the bar is supposed to counter-act, holding the pinion steady while torgue is applied so the pinion doesn't raise and bend the springs into an S shape, which is spring wrap.
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TEAM/PETTY CASHRacing........2013 Ultra4 Stock Class National Champions
Check out the TEAM Facebook page for the full story of our 2013 winning season: https://www.facebook.com/Team
Thanks to , Falken Tires, Bishop-Buehl Racing Engines, Ten Factory Axles, Brown Dog, Hooker Harness, BILSTEIN, Raceline Wheels, WARN, G&G Auto Repair/Off Road, Yukon Gear and Axle, Full Traction, Cal, Russ, James, and many, many others.
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