AW4 + ATF+4 = no good??

[Jeepguy03]

Right after I bought my 2000 XJ a year ago, my dad took it to the dealer and got all the fluids changed. He felt bad since I changed all the fluids on my previous XJ a week before some lady totaled it. The trans has acted fine ever since I've owned it.

Today I checked the fluid and noticed it was overfull on the dipstick. Nice and pink, but over full. I found the service reciept from the Jeep dealership and it states that they drained and filled it with ATF+4. I don't tow with this jeep and haven't had any tranny issues (yet). Should I drain out all the fluid and replace it with Dex/Merc? I've never done this before on this jeep but I do know it will take more than one drain to get it all out... Would it harm the tranny to leave the fluid in?

[87manche]

ATF+4 and the AW4 do not mix.
The trans was designed for Dex-III
Dex -VI is the GM controlled Dex-III replacement, or you can go generic.

There was even a TSB about this issue, I'm sure someone can post it up, it specifically listed which transmissions were NOT to get the new ATF-4 when they were serviced at the dealership.

Honestly, I'd take it back, after you find the TSB number and make them change it, and give you some sort of gurantee on the trans. It is afterall , their mistake. They should have known better, instead of just sticking the generic bulk fluid in it that they use on everything else ChryCo.

[Jeepguy03]

Originally Posted by 87manche

ATF+4 and the AW4 do not mix.
The trans was designed for Dex-III
Dex -VI is the GM controlled Dex-III replacement, or you can go generic.

There was even a TSB about this issue, I'm sure someone can post it up, it specifically listed which transmissions were NOT to get the new ATF-4 when they were serviced at the dealership.

Honestly, I'd take it back, after you find the TSB number and make them change it, and give you some sort of gurantee on the trans. It is afterall , their mistake. They should have known better, instead of just sticking the generic bulk fluid in it that they use on everything else ChryCo.

I was thinking about doing that. I might have to wait a week though because I have no time off work to take it there until next week. I'm going to bring that reciept with me. I've only put about 12K miles on the jeep since at most, but since the date on the paper is about a year ago I hope they will honor it.

[Digger87xj]

Actually, the TSB states just the opposite. ATF+4 is approved for use in the AW4. There are no ill effects.


ATF+4 can handle more heat than Dextron.

Originally Posted by Chrysler, LLC

NUMBER: 21-014-07
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: October 16, 2007
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-010-06, DATED APRIL 14, 2006, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES THE ADDITION OF THE ASIAN WARNER (AW4) TRANSMISSION AND ADDITIONAL MODELS AND YEARS.
SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type M59602) MODELS:
1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan

1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon

1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon

1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck

1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona

1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS

1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible

1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant

1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni

1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue

1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota

1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance

1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati

1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue

1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck

2004 - **2008** (CS) Pacifica

1998-2003 (DN) Durango

2002 - **2008** (DR/DH/D1) Ram Truck

2007 - **2008** (DC) Ram 3500 Cab Chassis

1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon

1996 - 2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)

2004 - **2008** (HB) Durango

**2008 (HG) Aspen**

1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze

2007 - **2008** (JK) Wrangler

2001 - 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan

2007 - **2008** (JS) Avenger/Sebring/Sebring Convertible

1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible

**2007 - 2008 (KA) Nitro**

2002 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty

**2008 (KK) Liberty**

**2008 (L2) 300C (China)**

1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker
/300M

2005 - **2008** (LX/LE) 300/Magnum/Charger

1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager

1995 - 2005 (PL) Neon

2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)

2001 - **2008** (PT) PT Cruiser

1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler

2001 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)

2001 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager

**2008 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager
(U.S. & International Markets)**

1997-2006 (TJ) Wrangler

2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
Vehicles equipped with Gas engines

1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee

2005 - **2008** (WK/WH) Grand Cherokee

2006 - **2008** (XK/XH) Commander

1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler

**1989 - 2001 (XJ) Cherokee**

**1989 - 1993 (MJ) Comanche**

1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)

1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer

NOTE :**AWA (Asian Warner) transmission are now included in this Service Bulletin. ATF+4(R) is recommended for AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions** NOTE :This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions, MK/PM vehicles equipped with Continuously Variable Transmission (CVT) and WG vehicles equipped with a diesel engine (sales code ENF) and a W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ). DISCUSSION:
ATF+4(R) - (Type 9602) is being used as factory fill for Chrysler Group automatic transmissions. ATF+4(R) is recommended for all vehicles equipped with Chrysler Group automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED IN THE NOTE ABOVE.
NOTE :ATF+4(R) must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with ATF+4(R). DO NOT USE ANY OTHER FLUID. NOTE :ATF+4(R) is backward compatible with ATF+3, ATF+2, and ATF+. Additionally, ATF+4(R) can be used to top off vehicles that used ATF+3, ATF+2, or ATF+. NOTE :If ATF+4® is used to service models originally filled with ATF+3, ATF+2, and ATF+ the fluid maintenance schedules listed for that model does not change. The service interval currently in effect for a given model should continue to be followed. Refer to the Service or Owners manual for maintenance schedule directions. In general terms, If ATF+, ATF+2 or ATF+3 was the recommended fluid, it is now recommended to use ATF+4®
BENEFITS
^ Better anti-wear properties ^ Improved rust/corrosion prevention ^ Controls oxidation ^ Eliminates deposits ^ Controls friction ^ Retains anti-foaming properties ^ Superior properties for low temperature operation FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4(R) has exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4(R) is not permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4(R) also has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4(R) fluid, color and odor are no longer indicators of fluid condition and do not necessarily support a fluid change.

PARTS REQUIRED:
POLICY:
Information Only Disclaimer :This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair.

Originally Posted by 87manche

ATF+4 and the AW4 do not mix.
The trans was designed for Dex-III
Dex -VI is the GM controlled Dex-III replacement, or you can go generic.

There was even a TSB about this issue, I'm sure someone can post it up, it specifically listed which transmissions were NOT to get the new ATF-4 when they were serviced at the dealership.

Honestly, I'd take it back, after you find the TSB number and make them change it, and give you some sort of gurantee on the trans. It is afterall , their mistake. They should have known better, instead of just sticking the generic bulk fluid in it that they use on everything else ChryCo.

[FordGuy]

Sweptco is the way to go, not cheap but 10x better than any off the shelf
crap

[87manche]

Originally Posted by Digger87xj

Actually, the TSB states just the opposite. ATF+4 is approved for use in the AW4. There are no ill effects.


ATF+4 can handle more heat than Dextron.

I had not seen that TSB, the last I knew the ATF-3/4 was not approved for the AW4.
The TSB I was thinking of was dated something like 2003, so obviously it's dated information.
Thanks for the update.

[joe_peters]

Yes, Chryco changed effective October 16, 2007. Prior to that time the opposite was specified, ONLY DEX III. Magically, on October 16, 2007 Chryco--not the company that designed, manufactured, and assembled the AW4 (that was Aisin Warner--surprise, surprise), decided that the AW4 could now be magically converted to ATF+4. Note that by this time all the AW4s that had been installed in Chryco vehicles are OUT OF WARRANTY, so who at Chryco gives a red-A**-monkey if your AW4 takes a dump?

There are users on here that SWEAR by ATF+4.

There are users on here that SWEAR AT ATF+4.

Search, make up your own mind.

As far as going back to the dealer--won't do any good. They have a TSB dated October 16, 2007 that says they acted properly.

[kastein]

X2 on what Joe said.

Me, I'd rather use the fluid specified by the transmission manufacturer, since either one is available at my parts store.

[87manche]

Originally Posted by joe_peters

Yes, Chryco changed effective October 16, 2007. Prior to that time the opposite was specified, ONLY DEX III. Magically, on October 16, 2007 Chryco--not the company that designed, manufactured, and assembled the AW4 (that was Aisin Warner--surprise, surprise), decided that the AW4 could now be magically converted to ATF+4. Note that by this time all the AW4s that had been installed in Chryco vehicles are OUT OF WARRANTY, so who at Chryco gives a red-A**-monkey if your AW4 takes a dump?

There are users on here that SWEAR by ATF+4.

There are users on here that SWEAR AT ATF+4.

Search, make up your own mind.

As far as going back to the dealer--won't do any good. They have a TSB dated October 16, 2007 that says they acted properly.

So there was no formulation change to the ATF-4 spec that facilitated the new TSB?
Yeah, I'd be sticking with Dex III, and since the GM trademark ran out for Dex III now you have to be careful of that. There is no one controlling the Dex III labeling now, I could pee in a bottle, label it Dex III and sell it with no consequence. That's why I mentioned that Dex-VI is the new GM controlled replacement, if it says Dex-VI on it then it's guaranteed to perform to the spec on the label. That's what I found out when installing a trans cooler on a 2003 Silverado when I called the dealership to ask what to put in the trans.

[Digger87xj]

what they told me at CryCo tranny school: when the first TSB came out, testing had not been done on the AW4 using ATF+4, so it was not recommended.

After testing was complete, including the A604 in the minivans, they came out with the new TSB that included the AW4 and the A604.

Although, teach said if it had a fresh reman, that both trannys should be broken in with dextron then switched to +4 if desired. This was for the TCC clutch material, not the internal trans parts.

[kastein]

Awesome, good to know some actual solid info on the why/how of that decision.

What's the break-in period / procedure for an AW-4? Curious, as I'm going to be rebuilding one eventually.

[Digger87xj]

no "procedure" per say, for the AW4. first fluid change after O/H with a new converter (around 15k) can be +4.

The 604 has a setting in the PCM software to 'switch' on TCC break-in..after the flag shows 'false' +4 can be used.

[Jeepguy03]

Originally Posted by Digger87xj

what they told me at CryCo tranny school: when the first TSB came out, testing had not been done on the AW4 using ATF+4, so it was not recommended.

After testing was complete, including the A604 in the minivans, they came out with the new TSB that included the AW4 and the A604.

Although, teach said if it had a fresh reman, that both trannys should be broken in with dextron then switched to +4 if desired. This was for the TCC clutch material, not the internal trans parts.

okay thanks! This is the kinda info I was looking for! I think I will keep the ATF+4 in there since it looks really good, but drain some out so that its at the proper level.

[joe_peters]

How about for shitz and grinz stop by the Toyota dealer and see if they "Magically" started using ATF+4 in their version of the AW4.

[Jeepguy03]

Originally Posted by joe_peters

How about for shitz and grinz stop by the Toyota dealer and see if they "Magically" started using ATF+4 in their version of the AW4.

I don't really know much about Toyotas. Which vehicles are they using AW4's in? The nearest Toyota dealer is about 45 mins away.