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Old March 20th, 2010, 21:03
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winterbeater winterbeater is offline
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How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

OK. Long story (12 pages with 180 posts), short. Mudeprived started a thread for “misfiring, where to buy injectors”. http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1009745. It has now evolved into a thread on “how to hook a timer up to the efan”. He has a 2001, auto, 4.0, 4WD.

I figured we should start a new thread on this after we apparently went the wrong way on the wiring set-up. Joe Peters gave us a link to the wiring for the timer.
http://www.at-fairfax.com/P1786-ELK-960.htm

On the 2001 XJ (as many may already know), the efan is powered by a relay that is fed by a 40A fuse. That fuse is always hot to the relay. The relay is activated by the PDC completing ground for the relay activation circuit. That side is only hot when the key is in RUN or ACC.

I thought from previous threads that you just needed to splice into the ground side of that circuit after the relay with a switch or timer switch to activate the fan. It seems obvious to me that won’t work because the power feed is off when the key is off.

The best way I can see to do it is to run a relay parallel to the factory relay, which would be activated by the timer for the length of time you wanted. The relay in the timer itself is rated for 7 amps @ 30 volts, IIRC, that would be the same as 17.5 @ 12 volts. Not enough for the efan on the 40 amp fuse.

I’ve tried searching this myself without much success. I know this has been done before. There has also been advice on needing a diode to stop the CEL light. This made sense to me if you could activate the factory relay with a switch, but that seems impossible, as there is no current to the activation side of the relay with the key off.

Any other ideas on this?
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Old March 21st, 2010, 00:27
willam willam is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

I'm facing the same issues with my 2000, and have been following this closely.....

here's the link to the timer
http://www.at-fairfax.com/P1786-ELK-960.htm

It says in the description that the initial state of the relay can be configured to be normally on...or normally off. That have anything to do with it?

A little switch, maybe?
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Old March 21st, 2010, 07:03
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ehall ehall is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

I can think of a couple ways depending on how that module works. Any design would have to use a 5-pin relay that switched between power inputs based on presence of ignition power. IE, if ignition power is hot then the selector relay is active on one input that draws from another ignition source, but when ignition power is off the relay switches to the other input which would have the timer and a battery power source.

If that module allows for something like "run for 60 seconds after input power disappears" then nothing else is needed--just watch for power to the fan, and if ignition power dies switch over to battery power under timer control.

An aftermarket temperature switch would probably be simpler, since you can make the switch run all the time, and then the timer just needs to maintain power for ~60 seconds and can cut off (rather than switch between the power supplies). This won't work with ECM controlled fan because the ECM switch disappears when ignition power goes off. You could probably use the headlight delay timer the same way, since it is designed to operate with constant battery power feeding the headlights. So just setup the fan delay timer the same way, using a headlight timer, or using the module, whichever works.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 07:09
kastein kastein is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

fyrfytr1717 just did a writeup on this a month or so ago I think - not sure.

EDIT: http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1025399

Last edited by kastein; March 21st, 2010 at 07:12.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 07:24
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hubs97xj hubs97xj is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Fyrfytr did a switched override of the fan control ckt- I don't believe he tried to use the timer.

Mud's already bought the thing and tried to make it work, so he's probably stuck with it. Where's Lazy's post on it? I think he's the only guy actually using one, maybe he can shed some light on this.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/3...7617434915718/

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showpost....&postcount=100

Not much info, but all I can find so far.

Last edited by hubs97xj; March 21st, 2010 at 07:31.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 07:42
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winterbeater winterbeater is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

If you look at the very nice wiring diagram fyrfytr1717 has included, you can see that the trigger side of the relay is powered only in RUN/START key position. You can turn the fan on manually while the Jeep is running. We want to kick it on after the Jeep is turned off to cool of the engine bay/fuel rail/fuel injectors for better hot restart.

That is an excellent write up for what he is doing, but I don't think it works for us.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 15:04
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ehall ehall is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

I looked at the FSM notes for the headlight delay module, and it seems pretty straightforward. Basically if ignition power is turned off first, followed by headlight power turned off, then a timer is started. I imagine that there are a couple of relays inside the module, with the output power coming from the headlight switch and battery hot, and then feeding into headlight relays in the PDC. Here's a picture of one I found for sale.



I imagine this could be setup the same way with an aftermarket fan switch that was wired to battery hot.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 19:11
willam willam is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Has anyone though of using a thermistor in place of this timer thing.

Basicly, a thermistor is just a bi-metal sensor that will go to gound when a certain ambient temp is exceeded. It would supply the ground for the relay and turn it'self on/off only when set temp is exceeded. So the faan would only run after x temp is exceeded after shutoff. Would also turn it'self back on if temp was again exceeded.

Volkswagons use this exact system to run the electric fan after shutoff in Jetta's and Golfs after '92.

Just an idea.
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Old March 21st, 2010, 23:03
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lazyxj lazyxj is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

I have used a fan timer for over a year and a half with no problems
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/s...7617434915718/
Before I installed the timer, I had previously added a switch, an inline 30-amp fuse and a 5-pin Bosch-type 40-amp relay wired to allow manual activation of the electric fan, when the ignition was on.

When the timer was added, I used the same fan relay, adding a couple of diodes to prevent any back feeding of power into the ignition circuit.

The diodes are located in the added fan relay's trigger wires, coming from the fan switch and timer.

If you zoom in on the photo in the link below, you can see the timer's
6 terminals.
http://www.at-fairfax.com/P1786-ELK-960.htm


The timer's "+" terminal feeds off a fused, always hot connection.

The activation button feeds power from the "+" terminal to the "trigger" terminal, starting the timing cycle.
The same always-hot power supply also feeds the "common" terminal. The "NO" terminal (normally open) feeds the added fan relay's coil.
The timer can be activated at any time with the ignition on or off.
Wish I had a program to draw the schematic; it's really simple.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:23
fyrfytr1717 fyrfytr1717 is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Quote:
Originally Posted by winterbeater View Post
If you look at the very nice wiring diagram fyrfytr1717 has included, you can see that the trigger side of the relay is powered only in RUN/START key position. You can turn the fan on manually while the Jeep is running. We want to kick it on after the Jeep is turned off to cool of the engine bay/fuel rail/fuel injectors for better hot restart.

That is an excellent write up for what he is doing, but I don't think it works for us.
Yeah, no timer on mine and it only works with the ignition in Run/Start. (No heat soak issues on my '99) The Jeep doesn't have to be running, but the key has to be left in the ON/RUN position. It would work, but you wouldn't want to turn it on and walk away.

Seems to me this should be easy to wire up so long as that timer can be triggered by power being taken away from it. You'd wire up a separate power supply to the fan (through a relay) and have that relay activated by the timer. Any given ignition switched 12V+ of your choice could be hooked up to the trigger terminal on the timer. The removal of this ignition switched 12V+ would be your "trigger" any time the ignition switch was turned off.
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Old March 22nd, 2010, 23:47
fyrfytr1717 fyrfytr1717 is offline
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Thumbs up Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

OK, here we go. I'm about 99% sure this is going to work correctly. I've taken info from all three of the threads and combined them to come up with the following wiring diagram. Now that I know we are in fact using the ELK-960 Delay Timer Module, I have something to work off of. This is essentially what the ELK tech guy told you (muddeprived) to do, with the addition of a relay to handle the power draw of the Radiator Fan. This is based off the wiring diagram from the FSM so part of the factory circuit is omitted. Hopefully it is big enough for you to make out.



Basically, we are creating a second fan control circuit using a New Relay. I'd recommend installing the relay in the engine compartment to cut down on the length of the heavier gauge power wire. The rest of the wiring can all be done with small gauge wire as the power draw of the relay coil and the timer module are very low.

One side of the New Relay gets tied to the battery using large gauge wire (the factory uses 12g, I'd recommend 10g). The other side gets tapped into the positive lead on the Radiator Fan, again using large gauge wire. If you tap into BATT F141 as shown in my diagram, you can leave out the fuse. If you connect directly to the battery, install an in-line 40amp fuse.

One side of the New Relay coil gets connected to a convenient ground. The other side gets connected to the Normally Open (N/O) terminal on the Delay Timer. If you are installing the Delay Timer in the passenger compartment, this wire will have to run from inside the vehicle, through the firewall, and out to the New Relay in the engine compartment.

The Positive (+) terminal on the Delay Timer gets tapped into a Constant 12V+ source. There are a few to choose from in the passenger compartment and all of them should already be fused by the factory system.

The Negative (-) terminal on the Delay Timer gets connected to a convenient Ground.

The Trigger (TGR) terminal gets tapped into an Ignition Switched 12V+ source. Doesn't matter what it is really, so long as it is hot when the ignition is on and dead when the ignition is off. Again, this should already be fused by the factory system.

The Common (COM) terminal simply gets jumped over to the Positive (+) terminal. This is where the Delay Timer's built in relay gets the power to send out through the N/O terminal.

That's it for the wiring. An easy place to access both a constant 12V+ and an ignition switched 12V+ would be at the switch panel below the HVAC controls. Red w/ Light Blue tracer on the back of the Power Outlet is constant. Solid Red on the back of the Cigar Lighter is ignition switched (technically Cigar Lighter Relay switched). The positive wire on the Radiator Fan should be a Light Blue 12g wire. The BATT F141 wire is Light Green w/ Red tracer 12g wire but can only be found within the PDC housing. These colors are all based on my '99 FSM, but I believe they are the same '97-'01.

As for the Delay Timer's jumper settings:
Jumper 1 gets set to "MIN" so you can run the fan for more than 60 seconds.
Jumper 2 gets set to "1-SHOT" so it doesn't continue to cycle on and off after the delay is over.
Jumper 3 gets set to "BEGIN" so the built-in relay turns ON when triggered.
Trigger Mode (Jumper 4) gets set to "A" so the relay is triggered when power is removed from the trigger terminal.
Trigger Polarity (Jumper 5) gets set to "+" as we are using an ignition switched 12V+ source as the trigger.
R3 gets set to the desired number of minutes (1-60) you want the fan to run.

The ELK-960 information also mentions that it automatically runs through a cycle when first powered up. I don't know for sure whether this means when the (+) terminal is first connected, or each time the (TGR) terminal is supplied with power. If it's the latter, be aware that your fan will run for the set amount of time each time you turn on your ignition. Hopefully this is not the case.

Well that about wraps it up. Hopefully this is fairly easy to understand and my diagram is at least somewhat legible at that size. Please post your results if you wire it up using the above instructions. I have no plans to use this mod myself as I have no heat soak issues, but would like to know for sure that this works correctly. Thanks!
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 00:04
fyrfytr1717 fyrfytr1717 is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Reading through the ELK-960 materials again, I can't tell for sure whether the trigger (removal of the 12+ on the TGR terminal) activates the relay and starts the timer, or whether is just starts the timer. If it only affects the timer, this could cause the fan to run continuously, shutting off only at the set amount of time after you turn off the ignition. Can someone that owns one of these timers test this for me? I believe there is an LED on the board that indicates relay status.
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 00:39
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lazyxj lazyxj is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Nice work, it looks like it should work fine.
A couple of suggestions.
The timer is not needed in cold weather so consider adding a switch in the constant 12-volt '+' wire going to the timer to shut it off when it is not wanted.
A manual over-ride switch is a good addition for off-roading. Combining the timer and manual over-ride, using the same relay, is where I found that a diode was needed to keep the timer from back-feeding the ignition circuit (which blew the 5-amp inline fuse installed in the constant '+'wire going to the timer). A diode was also needed in the wire coming from the trigger button to the timer.

I think I will try wiring the trigger using the switched 12-volt power, the way you did, and also add an on/off-switch.
For six months of the year, vapor locking is not a problem.
In the warm months, it’s always a problem so having the fan automatically come on every time the engine is turned off is good.
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 00:53
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrfytr1717 View Post
Reading through the ELK-960 materials again, I can't tell for sure whether the trigger (removal of the 12+ on the TGR terminal) activates the relay and starts the timer, or whether is just starts the timer. If it only affects the timer, this could cause the fan to run continuously, shutting off only at the set amount of time after you turn off the ignition. Can someone that owns one of these timers test this for me? I believe there is an LED on the board that indicates relay status.
Mine is triggered by energizing the relay's trigger with a positive 12-volt pulse. I do not have the timer's instructions on hand, what dip switch(s) needs to be changed to allow the removing of 12-volt power to trigger the timer.
I can give it a try, maybe, in the next couple of days if time permits.
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Old March 23rd, 2010, 06:22
muddeprived muddeprived is offline
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Re: How can I hook up an efan timer on a 2001?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fyrfytr1717 View Post
OK, here we go. I'm about 99% sure this is going to work correctly. I've taken info from all three of the threads and combined them to come up with the following wiring diagram. Now that I know we are in fact using the ELK-960 Delay Timer Module, I have something to work off of. This is essentially what the ELK tech guy told you (muddeprived) to do, with the addition of a relay to handle the power draw of the Radiator Fan. This is based off the wiring diagram from the FSM so part of the factory circuit is omitted. Hopefully it is big enough for you to make out.



Basically, we are creating a second fan control circuit using a New Relay. I'd recommend installing the relay in the engine compartment to cut down on the length of the heavier gauge power wire. The rest of the wiring can all be done with small gauge wire as the power draw of the relay coil and the timer module are very low.

One side of the New Relay gets tied to the battery using large gauge wire (the factory uses 12g, I'd recommend 10g). The other side gets tapped into the positive lead on the Radiator Fan, again using large gauge wire. If you tap into BATT F141 as shown in my diagram, you can leave out the fuse. If you connect directly to the battery, install an in-line 40amp fuse.

Can I use 12g instead of 10g? The timer ports for the wire ends are very small and 10g doesn't fit in it. How do I access Batt F141 that's inside the PDC?

One side of the New Relay coil gets connected to a convenient ground. The other side gets connected to the Normally Open (N/O) terminal on the Delay Timer. If you are installing the Delay Timer in the passenger compartment, this wire will have to run from inside the vehicle, through the firewall, and out to the New Relay in the engine compartment.

Is this right on the relay?

30 to battery or F141
87a to fan motor wire
86 to N/O on timer
85 to ground
87 is left alone

The Positive (+) terminal on the Delay Timer gets tapped into a Constant 12V+ source. There are a few to choose from in the passenger compartment and all of them should already be fused by the factory system.

The Negative (-) terminal on the Delay Timer gets connected to a convenient Ground.

The Trigger (TGR) terminal gets tapped into an Ignition Switched 12V+ source. Doesn't matter what it is really, so long as it is hot when the ignition is on and dead when the ignition is off. Again, this should already be fused by the factory system.

The Common (COM) terminal simply gets jumped over to the Positive (+) terminal. This is where the Delay Timer's built in relay gets the power to send out through the N/O terminal.

That's it for the wiring. An easy place to access both a constant 12V+ and an ignition switched 12V+ would be at the switch panel below the HVAC controls. Red w/ Light Blue tracer on the back of the Power Outlet is constant. Solid Red on the back of the Cigar Lighter is ignition switched (technically Cigar Lighter Relay switched). The positive wire on the Radiator Fan should be a Light Blue 12g wire. The BATT F141 wire is Light Green w/ Red tracer 12g wire but can only be found within the PDC housing. These colors are all based on my '99 FSM, but I believe they are the same '97-'01.

As for the Delay Timer's jumper settings:
Jumper 1 gets set to "MIN" so you can run the fan for more than 60 seconds.
Jumper 2 gets set to "1-SHOT" so it doesn't continue to cycle on and off after the delay is over.
Jumper 3 gets set to "BEGIN" so the built-in relay turns ON when triggered.
Trigger Mode (Jumper 4) gets set to "A" so the relay is triggered when power is removed from the trigger terminal.
Trigger Polarity (Jumper 5) gets set to "+" as we are using an ignition switched 12V+ source as the trigger.
R3 gets set to the desired number of minutes (1-60) you want the fan to run.

The ELK-960 information also mentions that it automatically runs through a cycle when first powered up. I don't know for sure whether this means when the (+) terminal is first connected, or each time the (TGR) terminal is supplied with power. If it's the latter, be aware that your fan will run for the set amount of time each time you turn on your ignition. Hopefully this is not the case.

If it is the latter, it doesn't seem to be a big issue to me. One or two minutes on start up wouldn't harm much.

Well that about wraps it up. Hopefully this is fairly easy to understand and my diagram is at least somewhat legible at that size. Please post your results if you wire it up using the above instructions. I have no plans to use this mod myself as I have no heat soak issues, but would like to know for sure that this works correctly. Thanks!
Thanks for everything man. That was perfect for my noobish arse lol. Let me know about the questions above and then I'll get started on this as soon as it stops raining.

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