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4.5 short arm & 33's for daily

b_palmer22

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Military
Hey guys, I'm looking at picking up a RE 4.5 superflex w/ leaf packs with Re monotubes from 4x4 group buy.com they have it listed at $1299. I'm concerned about the 3.5 inch rear leafs sagging as i've seen them get their lean on on a few xj's. What are the other options though for a complete kit? I could go rusty's but to get everything the RE kit offers its more expensive. I've read a bizillion threads about RE going down hill and I emailed them about where they get their springs from...No answer. To their fairness its been only a few days. Anyway What do you guys think of a 4.5 superflex w/ leaves and 33 BFG AT's w/ 4.55's as a daily? I plan on doing the PORC Sye for 130 and picking up a frount DS for the rear. Plan on doing some wheeling but mostly road. And quite a few highway trips because I'm in the military and i live a ways away from the family. Looking to keep things in that price range. Thanks guys!
 
dont see why it wouldnt work. cant speak to the rubicon express quality issue. i daily drive my 96 with 4" of lift in the front and 4.5" in the rear with 33x12.5 with the factory 3.55's. i will change the gearing eventually but its not as bad as people say. i run a s10 bastard pack worth about 4" of lift and mj shackles for the .5". it works amazing, no sag and rides good. and it only cost me 50$! i just took a camping trip with the jeep loaded with gear and a trailer with 2 dirt bikes and it sat just below level (normaly sits rear high barely).
 
The following observations are based upon my experience with 30", 31" and 33' diameter tires. Jumping from 31"s to 33"s involves a lot of extra work.

With an auto, it will be a dog until you regear. Add a transmission cooler.
For daily driver, 33''s are too big for the stock brakes no matter what you do. Freeway driving will be scary due to the poor stopping ability. Upgrading the brakes to WJ or Vancos and ZJ discs in the rear in the front is a good fix
At 4.5" of lift, the ride is going to be rough unless you install dropped brackets.
You will need to do a bit of trimming, front and rear, to keep the sheet metal intact as well as making sure the bumpstops are extended enough.
Shimming or adjusting the axle pinion angles needs to be done as well as a SYE.
You will need wider wheels (8"min) with around 4" of backspacing.

For a DD that will only be used off road occasionally, a 3" lift and 30"s or 31"s will do it all without so many negatives or the cash outlay.
 
The following observations are based upon my experience with 30", 31" and 33' diameter tires. Jumping from 31"s to 33"s involves a lot of extra work.

With an auto, it will be a dog until you regear. Add a transmission cooler.
For daily driver, 33''s are too big for the stock brakes no matter what you do. Freeway driving will be scary due to the poor stopping ability. Upgrading the brakes to WJ or Vancos and ZJ discs in the rear in the front is a good fix
At 4.5" of lift, the ride is going to be rough unless you install dropped brackets.
You will need to do a bit of trimming, front and rear, to keep the sheet metal intact as well as making sure the bumpstops are extended enough.
Shimming or adjusting the axle pinion angles needs to be done as well as a SYE.
You will need wider wheels (8"min) with around 4" of backspacing.

For a DD that will only be used off road occasionally, a 3" lift and 30"s or 31"s will do it all without so many negatives or the cash outlay.

Im going to have to disagree with the brake argument, when i ran stock brakes and 33s, it was not scary, were they as good as stock? no. but i could still lock em up, just stay on top of your brake maintnence, and youll be fine. But a ZJ rear disk conversion is cheap and effective.
 
A good set of Brake pads will improve your braking performance with the stock brakes. I put a set of Hawk HPS brake pads on my Cherokee and it stops well with 33x12.50 M/T MTZ's.
 
The following observations are based upon my experience with 30", 31" and 33' diameter tires. Jumping from 31"s to 33"s involves a lot of extra work.

With an auto, it will be a dog until you regear. DISAGREE

Add a transmission cooler. AGREE

For daily driver, 33''s are too big for the stock brakes no matter what you do. Freeway driving will be scary due to the poor stopping ability. DISAGREE

Upgrading the brakes to WJ or Vancos and ZJ discs in the rear in the front is a good fix. AGREE

At 4.5" of lift, the ride is going to be rough unless you install dropped brackets. STRONGLY AGREE

You will need to do a bit of trimming, front and rear, to keep the sheet metal intact as well as making sure the bumpstops are extended enough.
Shimming or adjusting the axle pinion angles needs to be done as well as a SYE. AGREE (except shimming, good leafs will have this built in)

You will need wider wheels (8"min) with around 4" of backspacing. DISAGREE

For a DD that will only be used off road occasionally, a 3" lift and 30"s or 31"s will do it all without so many negatives or the cash outlay.


1.) I ran 3.55's with 33's for a LONG time, it was no dog. It'd pull just fine in the dirt, on the road, etc. I hate that everyone thinks you HAVE to re-gear before running 33's. If you've got a healthy motor, ESPECIALLY an HO, then you'll be just fine. Here's a video of me on 33's with 3.55's... does it look like a slouch?



2.) Transmission cooler is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you're stock. However, mine survived hell without one, but I'm not saying it didn't shorten its life at all.

3.) This is COMPLETELY wrong. XJ brakes aren't top of the line by any means, they're normal, single piston calipers on an average sized disk. However, a quality pad, and proper brake bed-in will go a LOOONG way. I can lock up a set 33's on the street with stock brakes, as you know that's more braking power than you need.

4.) Like the transmission cooler, while not necessary, upgrading your brakes to a WJ setup or similar is always a good idea. But don't think you can't run 33's safely without them.

5.) I can't say this enough! This man speaks the truth about drop brackets. A short arm lift over 3" or so without drop brackets is harsh, and while you may argue "It's not that bad", try installing some drop brackets and tell me it's still not that bad. You'll never go back, and they're cheap enough that it's hard to justify NOT doing it.

6.) Also agree with the trimming, you'll need trimming both front and rear if you ever expect to flex the thing, you'll also MOST LIKELY need a slip yoke eliminator, depending what year, but it's STILL always a good idea to have. As for shimming your axle, most decent leafs will have the angle built into them, and shimming is relatively unnecessary.

7.) Why would he need wider wheels? I run a 7" wide wheel with 3.5" of backspace. Always have, always will unless I step up to 35's. I run a 10.50 wide tire because of the offroading I do. 7" is fine, 8" is fine, but stating he'll HAVE to get 8" wide wheels is incorrect.
 
1.) I ran 3.55's with 33's for a LONG time, it was no dog. It'd pull just fine in the dirt, on the road, etc. I hate that everyone thinks you HAVE to re-gear before running 33's. If you've got a healthy motor, ESPECIALLY an HO, then you'll be just fine. Here's a video of me on 33's with 3.55's... does it look like a slouch?



2.) Transmission cooler is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you're stock. However, mine survived hell without one, but I'm not saying it didn't shorten its life at all.

3.) This is COMPLETELY wrong. XJ brakes aren't top of the line by any means, they're normal, single piston calipers on an average sized disk. However, a quality pad, and proper brake bed-in will go a LOOONG way. I can lock up a set 33's on the street with stock brakes, as you know that's more braking power than you need.

4.) Like the transmission cooler, while not necessary, upgrading your brakes to a WJ setup or similar is always a good idea. But don't think you can't run 33's safely without them.

5.) I can't say this enough! This man speaks the truth about drop brackets. A short arm lift over 3" or so without drop brackets is harsh, and while you may argue "It's not that bad", try installing some drop brackets and tell me it's still not that bad. You'll never go back, and they're cheap enough that it's hard to justify NOT doing it.

6.) Also agree with the trimming, you'll need trimming both front and rear if you ever expect to flex the thing, you'll also MOST LIKELY need a slip yoke eliminator, depending what year, but it's STILL always a good idea to have. As for shimming your axle, most decent leafs will have the angle built into them, and shimming is relatively unnecessary.

7.) Why would he need wider wheels? I run a 7" wide wheel with 3.5" of backspace. Always have, always will unless I step up to 35's. I run a 10.50 wide tire because of the offroading I do. 7" is fine, 8" is fine, but stating he'll HAVE to get 8" wide wheels is incorrect.

i still love that video. it gives me so much inspiration! :D
 
1.) I ran 3.55's with 33's for a LONG time, it was no dog. It'd pull just fine in the dirt, on the road, etc. I hate that everyone thinks you HAVE to re-gear before running 33's.

3.) This is COMPLETELY wrong. XJ brakes aren't top of the line by any means, they're normal, single piston calipers on an average sized disk. However, a quality pad, and proper brake bed-in will go a LOOONG way. I can lock up a set 33's on the street with stock brakes, as you know that's more braking power than you need.

4.) Like the transmission cooler, while not necessary, upgrading your brakes to a WJ setup or similar is always a good idea. But don't think you can't run 33's safely without them.

6.)As for shimming your axle, most decent leafs will have the angle built into them, and shimming is relatively unnecessary.

7.) Why would he need wider wheels? I run a 7" wide wheel with 3.5" of backspace. Always have, always will unless I step up to 35's. I run a 10.50 wide tire because of the offroading I do. 7" is fine, 8" is fine, but stating he'll HAVE to get 8" wide wheels is incorrect.


Great video.

Running fast in the desert is a little different than using your XJ primarily as a daily driver or even crawling up a steep trail. Properly matched gears are a pleasure. What are the Jeep Speed guys running- 4.88s?
When I went to 31”s, the down shifting on every little hill drove me nuts until I re-geared to 4.11s. Now that it is on 33”s, I hate the fact that it, once again, often downshifts I should have gone with 4.56 gears in the first place.
You don't have to re-gear but once you have done it, you will wonder why you waited so long.


My XJ weighed 3400 lbs when I bought it many years ago. It now weighs over 4000 lbs, it has tires and wheels that weight almost twice as much as stock and are 5” taller, there is a hundred pounds of winch and bumper sitting on the nose and the center gravity has been raised about 6”- all contributors to degraded braking. So while your stock XJ brakes, on 33”s may work great, my XJ's brakes were nothing like the brakes were when it was stock (which were not great compared to my Acura's brakes).
No way could I safety and quickly stop the 33”s from 70 MPH, nor could I lock them up on dry pavement. Even with premium parts and various high-end pads, the brakes, with 33”s, were not up to 'my' standards. As usual YMMV.
It really doesn't matter how good the pads and rotors are, XJs suffer from weak caliper brackets that flex under heavy braking effort. Hard braking at high speed, with big tires, causes darting from side to side.
WJ and other aftermarket brakes all use different knuckles with rigid caliper mountings, a major reason why this is a popular upgrade. This has been the subject of dozen of threads on the XJ, ZJ and TJ forums for years.
Better brakes are like the right gears, once you experience it the 'right ' way, you will never want to go back.

I have bought several sets of leaf springs, R.E. and OME for example, and never a set that came with axle shims...never. Never seen leafs springs advertised as coming with shims either.
If the OP installs a 4.5" kit, he will have to shim the rear axle to prevent vibs, with or without an SYE.

I should have stated if he wants to run a 12.50 tire, as most seem to, he will need a rim wider than the stock 7”. A 10.50 is fine on a 7” rim.
I run 10.50 X 33 X15 KOs on stock 7” alloys and are within manufacturer's specs. I would prefer an 8” wide wheel for more even tire wear with the 10.50s.
Tire manufacturers specify rims wider than 7” for 12.50 tires. For example, here is a popular tire's specs.
BFG KO 12.50 X 33 X 15 Click '”Specs"
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T/A+KO
Rim size 8.5-11”
 
I should add that in the current stages of my build, I'm going 4.88 gears and doing a WJ knuckle/brake swap. I'm DEFINITELY not saying it's not better to be geared, just that you don't HAVE to to have fun, don't feel like you need to gear first before you buy 33's, or do it at the exact same time. I hear ya on the hills, I usually hit third and let it do its thing. As for the Jeepspeed guys, most are running 5.13's in 9" rears. Those guys gear DEEP.


I have bought several sets of leaf springs, R.E. and OME for example, and never a set that came with axle shims...never. Never seen leafs springs advertised as coming with shims either.
If the OP installs a 4.5" kit, he will have to shim the rear axle to prevent vibs, with or without an SYE.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply they came with shims. Most aftermarket leafs are a bit longer than stock, giving a better shackle angle and better flex. By making the spring longer you have to move the center pin forward as to not extend the wheel base. By moving it forward up the spring, your axle moves up the arch, somewhat correcting your angle. I can tell you this is more prominent on my Deavers, second to my Alcans I used to run.


As for the 7" vs. 8" debate. I run the 7" for the 10.50's to "squeeze" the tire a bit more, so I don't roll a bead. I ran 10.50's on an 8" wide wheel on my MJ, they definitely weren't as stable.


7" vs. 8":

bumper.jpg


DSC02741.jpg
 
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I ran 33s on stock gears and it sucked. It was much slower than with the previous 30s and gas mileage tanked. I wouldn't make that jump again.

My stock brakes stopped my Jeep just fine. I never once felt unsafe, never had a close call due to poor braking, etc etc. I still have stock front brakes, just upgraded to ZJ discs out back when I installed the D44.
 
As for the 7" vs. 8" debate. I run the 7" for the 10.50's to "squeeze" the tire a bit more, so I don't roll a bead. I ran 10.50's on an 8" wide wheel on my MJ, they definitely weren't as stable.
That's a good point. I have run the 10.50s many times at 8-psi without rolling a bead. Fitted on the stock 7" alloy rims, with 1-1/4" spacers, they tuck nicely under the cut and raised flairs. Guess I should stick with the 7" rims. The price is right.
I tried a couple of 12.50s, off friend's rigs, and they didn't fit nearly as well and would require more cutting. After-market flairs would become necessary to stay legal.

10.50 X 33s are not very common but are a great size tire for XJs since they can be made to work well with too much cutting or inner fender massaging. At a relatively low 4"s of lift, I have 5" of shock up-travel, front and rear. Getting the bump stops right did require a bit of time and was well worth it.
 
Hey guys op here, I plan on doing 33 12.50's. Shimming and i've been thinking about drop brackets but I'm concerned about loosing ground clearance. I dont mind the ride of a short arm at 3.5 but i hate it at 5.5 So we'll see how it goes. I will re gear with in 2-3 months of the lift being installed. Probably going to 4.55. You guys had any experience with IRO's lifts. I had one on my Grand and it was well built.
 
I strongly disagree that you will have a harsh ride without drop brackets.. (maybe with the r.e.?)
My xj rides real nice ... lifts been on maybe 2 years


My ride is a d.d. and i went with the d.p.g. offroad super ultimate Old man emu 4"-4.5" Hybrid (o.m.e./JKS)
kit and i added a jks adjustable rear bumpstops (maybe it rides good because its a touch shorter than the r.e.?)


DPG had the best service out of anyone ive ever dealt with he tolerated many calls and questions before and after i bought it and gave me a few tips when i got hung up on the install.. he also changed my front springs to the v8 Grand cherokee ones because i told him i was doing my bumper and winch/steering box brace at the same time..



I ran 31/10.50 bfg all terrrains on stock rims and they just Barely rubbed the l.c.a. at full lock.. They are currently on cragar d windows (stock caps) 15x7 with 4.25 backspacing ($210 shipped), they Fit Nicely and dont stick crazy far out i will trim and run 33's eventually either 10.50 or 11.50


drove it for about a year with no s.y.e. (no vibes) Needed new joints in the rear driveshaft after about a year (130,00 mi.) so i did the iron rock offroad Hack and tap and run a front driveshaft in the rear with a 6 degree shim..


this weekend im picking up some locked and loaded axles geared to 4.56
(cant wait for the 33's)

I plan on doing the jeeptubes.com tube fenders with tailight boxes to trim for the 33's

I think its worth getting a trans cooler (longer life) but maybe not necessary .. my lines were leaking so i replaced them with an fittings and hose with a filer and temp guage. i just did that

one of my fav upgrades was 160amp 'rango alternator and wiring mains/headlight loom upgrade and e-code h4 housings/bulbs (stock headlights were super weak.. ( helped alot with the subwoofer/winch)

andd since ive listed like everything ill go off topic and mention my black microfiber headliner and cut to be removable carpet / floor drains .. (after it got sunk in mud i got a j-yard carpet.. (now i remove before wheeling trips.. will probably bedline it one day (after frame reinforcement as the welding can burn the bedliner)


oh yea mines a n 01 aw4 np231
 
Since the OP has a 2000 w/ a LP D30, pay particular attention to your front driveshaft angles and watch for CV bind.Also budget for a SYE kit,the late t-case is known to have worse vibe issues!
 
Yeah, I plan on budgeting for a SYE. Going with PORC's kit. Its only like 130 and with a Front DS i'll have a full set up for under 200 bucks. I'm going to run 33 12.50's and i know i'll have to trim but im not worried about it. The other option is do to a 3.5 but i know im going to want to upgrade later so why buy a new lift twice.
 
I heard that the JKS arms are superior to the RE arms because they flex in the middle instead of at the johnny joints. I may be looking at other kits if i ever get an email back from RE about where their springs are made. If they're made in India probably not. I didnt spend a whole year here in afghanistan to support another country.
 
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