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  #16  
Old November 20th, 2020, 16:38
Tim_MN's Avatar
Tim_MN Tim_MN is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchlimgenMatt View Post
... solve my deathwobble..
Death wobble always has the same root causes, you need to find and fix the problem, stock parts will do the job.



My 2000 is at 5.5" of lift with 31's. It still has stock steering, not ideal, but absolutely zero death wobble.





The first steps to eliminate death wobble should be a visual inspection of each component, check the bushings, tire balance and an alignment. These are some common things you must check anytime you lift your Jeep. Death wobble is experienced mostly on lifted Jeeps, however it is not uncommon for someone without a lift to experience the dreaded DW. Listed below are a few things you can check.

Check your Track Bar, play in this can cause the axle to shake.
1. Bushings - check to see that they are not worn. Looks for cracks, and excessive play)
2. Angles - this angle should be the same as your draglink. Use an angle finders you can get at sears to determine this, don’t just eye-ball it.
3. Track Bar Bolts – Make sure all bolts both at the axle*end, and*at the frame bracket,*are tightened down to spec (some lift components have a different torque spec then)

Check the Axle, the mounts may be worn or the bolt holes enlarged.
1. Check the axle mount. Here is a good write up on a wallowed out bolt hole
http://www.jeepin.com/features/trackbarfix/index.asp
2. Check your Universal joints, a binding or lose U-Joint can cause DW
3. On the frame end if you still use the conventional Tie Rod End or (TRE) make sure that there is no play in this, as play can cause DW.
4. Look/Check for worn/torn boots on ball joints/tie-rod ends.

Check your Tires
1. Out of balance tires can cause shaking in the front end, which can lead to death wobble.
2. Make sure all of your lug nuts are tight, (Sounds elementary but it happens to the best of us)

Check your Frame
1. Small cracks in the frame can cause the steering box to feel loose, Shaking from DW can only make this worse. 33’s and larger should have some form of Steering box brace, or frame brace in.
2. If you have upgraded your frame mount, make sure its cranked down nice and tight. (best to use an impact gun)
3. A busted Frame Mount can cause play in the front end causing DW (Keep a watchful eye on the welds as welds in sheer can break over time.

Make sure you have a good alignment
1. Lifted Jeep with larger tires require more toe-in.
2. After you get an alignment done, have them print out the numbers for you. An XJ should have a 7* positive caster angle. A lifted XJ can’t always have that high of a number because the pinion would become out of alignment with the front driveshaft. Pinion angle takes precedence over caster.
3. Make you sure you go to a shop that will adjust the caster if necessary (either by shims in the frame side of the LCAs, or adjustable LCAs).

The more adjustable parts the easier it is to tune in your suspension.
1. Adjustable Track Bar
2. Adjustable Upper and Lower Control Arms (upper ones above 4” of lift). Not only are they adjustable, but they are stronger.


Things to remember:
1. After any lift, get your Jeep professionally aligned, this is a REQUIREMENT, not a suggestion.
2. A Steering Stabilizer (SS) is not a quick fix for DW.
3. Make sure that the lift you purchase comes with all the required parts for a safe driving vehicle. (as long as its going to be a DD)
4. PLEASE ALWAYS DRIVE WITH YOUR FRONT SWAY BAR CONNECTED!

DW is not usually caused by one single item on the list below, it occurs when a combination of weak, damaged, failed, or out of specification items on the list are present. Tire issues will only initiate DW, and are not the sole cause of DW.

Entire list of everything that can cause death wobble:
- Loose, worn, or incorrectly torqued suspension nuts/bolts
- Front alignment out of spec
- Loose track bar
- Worn track bar bushing axle end
- Worn track bar end frame end
- Worn track bar bolt hole on axle
- Needing an adjustable track bar
- Bad bushings/joints in control arms
- Damaged control arms or control arm mounts
- Worn/damaged shocks
- Worn/damaged tie rod ends
- Bad U Joint
- Bad ball joint
- Loose track bar frame mount hardware
- Worn/damaged track bar frame mount
- Steering box loose bolts/cracked frame mount area
- Driveshaft(s) not balanced
- Bad front hub assembly
- Bent axle housing

Torque specs:

Item ........................................ Ft. lbs. ................... Nm

Lug nuts (1/2 X 20 w/ 60* cone) .... 85-115 .............. 115-150
All tie rod ends .....................…..... 55 ...................….. 74
Steering (both ends) ..............…..... 55 ................….... 74
Shock absorber upper nut .............. 16 ................….... 22
Shock absorber lower nuts ............. 17 ................….... 23
UCA frame end .....................…...... 66 ..............…..... 89
UCA axle end .........................….... 55 ................….... 74
LCA frame end ......................…..... 85 ...................... 115
LCA axle end .........................….... 85 ...................... 115
Track bar frame end ..............…..... 60 .................…... 81
Track bar axle end .................….... 40 ..................…... 54
Track bar bracket bolts ..........…..... 92 ...................... 125
Track bar bracket nut .............….... 74 ....................... 100
Track bar bracket support bolts ...... 31 ....................... 42
Hub bolts (3) ............................…. 75 ....................... 102
Hub- axle bolt ..........................….. 175 ..................... 237


.
__________________
.
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjeeper


Go ahead and slam the liftgate down on a blanket, and see how long you are laughing.

Last edited by Tim_MN; November 20th, 2020 at 16:44.
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  #17  
Old November 20th, 2020, 17:54
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

Explanation of why you thing big tires need more toe compared to smaller tires. Also Explanation why some toe in is needed at all.

For the most part your info is pretty good except in my opinion this area. But isn't exactly horrible info just slightly jaded.
More info is needed to see why you sujest what you do.

Yes factory steering does want some toe in /\. But Explanation on why is needed. And why more the bigger the tires.
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  #18  
Old November 20th, 2020, 18:49
gearwhine gearwhine is offline
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Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 991
Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

Why so ornery? This isn't a test, the information is not wrong, and the internet is a great place to research what is said on the internet. Here is some help with that.

1) A you mentioned; stock Y-style steering needs a bit of toe-in, as it toes-out with compression (such as a driver and/or passengers getting in). A slight toe-in is used to correct that.

2) Toe is measured in length, not in degrees. As the tires get larger, the measurement between the front of the tires gets smaller for the same angle....therefore you now have more toe-in to have an equal amount of toe-in compared to a smaller tire.

3) The drive style of a car also affects toe requirements. Here is some information for rear wheel drive with straight front axles...yes...calls for more toe-in. It also mentions toe-in differences for radial vs bias ply tires.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0902...traight-axles/

Lots of legitimate factors go into it, yet it's mostly trial and error on how to apply all those factors to get the correct amount for your vehicle. However....I have never once seen anything call for zero toe at rest.

Last edited by gearwhine; November 20th, 2020 at 18:50. Reason: Grammar
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  #19  
Old November 20th, 2020, 19:06
Evan03 Evan03 is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

Good to see someone knows there stuff.

I think alittle more explanation is needed on the stock y style steering and why toe in is recomend. Great tie rod is not fixed from tire to tire its got a drag link intercepting it. This creats a toe that is constantly changing just alittle as the suspension cycles up and down .
For our purposes and most vehicles street driving characteristics tow out is undesirable. \/. That is why the y style is set toed in more than fixed tie rod type steering.
Another reason is play in steering joints .

Death wobble is drastic toe in toe out harmics twanging throughout the entire front end picture the tires spring boarding of a spring. This motion possibly kicked of by a pogo sticking rear shock transfered through a out of balance tire out through track bar that has just alittle to much free play.
Thats why many have a hard time tracking down the root causes even shops

Whats the topic again

Its good to see theres good info here even if jaded or am I jaded
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  #20  
Old November 23rd, 2020, 08:07
SchlimgenMatt SchlimgenMatt is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

Soo The question is.. do I install it or scrap it? I'm leaning towards installing, since I already own it and can't get any money for it.. or is it a waste of time and should I go spend the money on the currie system?
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  #21  
Old November 23rd, 2020, 08:26
RCP Phx RCP Phx is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

I definitely would not install it other wise you will be taking it back off for something that's correct. I have the Currie set-up and it works great.
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  #22  
Old November 23rd, 2020, 09:11
SchlimgenMatt SchlimgenMatt is offline
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Re: Installing the Rocky Road OTT Steering

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for your time and assistance. Yall are awesome!
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