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Where does the TPS get current from?

Gil BullyKatz

NAXJA Forum User
I used a voltmeter today to try and properly adjust my TPS in an effort to fix my erratic shifting

With the black lead on D and the red on A with the ignition set to ON...

It would only read .51, and the B lead would only read .50!

The odd thing about this is that I did the same thing on thursday when I originally set the TPS according to previous posts and I was able to get a reading of 4.8 on A and 3.98 on B (83%).

I was trying to re-adjust the TPS because the tranny was still refusing to go into overdrive or 1st-2nd gears (even from a stop) So in an effort to recheck it, today I was not able to get any readings over 1 volt!

I could not find any burnt fuses or disco'd connectors...

Arrg.

its an'88 4.0 AW4 btw

suggestions? ideas?
 
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Check the power in (A), to chassis ground, this will tell you if the power supply is good. Then check B to chassis ground, to make sure the TPS isn't an open circuit. Then check the ground (D) to chassis ground, this will tell you how many volts aren't getting to ground through the harness and the TCU.
Most likely there is no power in or no ground. Or the resistance is so high, it is a nearly open circuit.
 
8Mud said:
Check the power in (A), to chassis ground, this will tell you if the power supply is good. Then check B to chassis ground, to make sure the TPS isn't an open circuit. Then check the ground (D) to chassis ground, this will tell you how many volts aren't getting to ground through the harness and the TCU.
Most likely there is no power in or no ground. Or the resistance is so high, it is a nearly open circuit.


Tried all of the above...

same readings even with chassis ground...

What do you mean by "resistance is so high"?

and where does the TPS get it's power from?
 
TPS +5VDC (reference) feed should be from ECU pin C15. (TPS pin A) The TPS is a potentiometer used as a voltage divider, which makes current relatively insignificant.

TPS voltage output is from the "wiper" contact (TPS pin C, ECU pin C7,) with TPS pin B run to ECU pin D3 - Sensor Reference Ground.

Data is from the 1990 FSM - while pins should be the same, wiring colours are probably not. Therefore, they're not given (my 1987 is awaiting re-binding, and therefore isn't available for reference at the moment.)

Silly thought - but do a voltage check (using the lowest voltage scale first) between the TPS ground terminal and the chassis ground. Put the positive terminal on the TPS lead. You should show nothing (0.000) on that test - if you show anything, there may be some ground fault to locate. What, specifically, is the trouble you're having?
 
5-90 said:
What, specifically, is the trouble you're having?

occasional erratic shifting (revving/tranny slipping?)

car was parked for a week or so... went to use it then seemed to be stuck in 4th-5th gear with no overdrive or 1-2... (it has rained a few times)

I replaced the TCU with no improvement but after replacing the tps without adjusting it, It was able to shift but it seemed like it was shifting too fast/early with still no overdrive (which is why I figured I needed to fine tune the TPS).

ugh... I hate electrical systems.
 
Gil BullyKatz said:
Tried all of the above...

same readings even with chassis ground...

What do you mean by "resistance is so high"?

and where does the TPS get it's power from?

The tranny side of the TPS gets it's power from the TCU.
The TCU gets it's power from multiple places.
The TCU 5.0 v out to the TPS sensor goes through multiple connectors. Bad contact at a connector equals high resistance which can cause a voltage loss.

5xsh5pu.gif
 
5-90 said:
Silly thought - but do a voltage check (using the lowest voltage scale first) between the TPS ground terminal and the chassis ground. Put the positive terminal on the TPS lead. You should show nothing (0.000) on that test - if you show anything, there may be some ground fault to locate.


I did this a few minutes ago and the ground wire at the tps square connector is reading 0.68!

I am at a loss when it comes to electrical issues so please explain "ground fault"...

Can I run a chassis ground wire and splice it in to fix it?

Or do I have to spend hours chasing down wire connectors?
 
Gil BullyKatz said:
I did this a few minutes ago and the ground wire at the tps square connector is reading 0.68!

I am at a loss when it comes to electrical issues so please explain "ground fault"...

Can I run a chassis ground wire and splice it in to fix it?

Or do I have to spend hours chasing down wire connectors?

Either Pin D to Pin D on the 2 square conectors are not making good contact (thus we call it a "ground fault", as the connection is faulty, and the ground has resistance through the bad contact at the connectors (pin D male to pin D female on the square connector), or the other end of the wire from Pin D is loose, corroded and dirty, or the worst case the wire is broken inside the pvc insulation and good luck finding it, in which case just splice a new ground wire in at pin D near the wiring harness connector on the wiring harness side of the connector to the TPS sensor.

Also you need to clean and tighten all the ground connections:

1) The battery negative terminal and the wires and connectors there.

2) The flat terminal ends of the multiple wires running the the engine block near the oil dip stick.

3) Both ends of the ground strap on the drives side, top of the engine block head in the rear to the firewall.

The OEM ground strap (#3) is a silver colored Stainless steel wire mesh flat cable. Be sure to use sand paper or scotch brite to remove corrosion from the flat terminal connectors on all the flat washer like contact ends and also clean the cast iron block surface and firewall surface with the abrasive. Not much you can do with the square connector except use very tiny needle nose pliers to close the gap and tighten the female connector so it is tighter when reassembled.

One of those three ot the TPS/wiring harness Pin D connection is probably the where the bad connection is causing the extra ground resistance.

From the data you posted, the problem is not the 5 volt signal, the problem is a poor ground connection. Your old TCU and TPS may be good! Save them and test them once you have fixed the bad ground before tossing them (if you still have them).

Oh, and by the way, the ground problem can come and go on its own as the engine block and wire connectors get hot, cold and shift around as the engine moves!!! That is why it tested OK before and is testing bad now! I fought that problem for a while too.

I fixed all four of the above problems on mine just to fix a fast idle on the 3 pin, ECU side of my TPS, and then had to run a new ground wire for Pin D on the TCU side of my TPS to solve the transmission sifting problems.

Good grounds are essential!!!!

One last thing, Mud8 was telling you to run those tests he suggested earlier with the TPS connector disconnected and power turned off. Then you switch from volts to ohms on the meter (may need to move the probes to a different pin location and set, turn the dial to ohms, varies with different meters), then test fron pin D to a know good ground, namely the negative terminal of the battery. If it reads more than 1 ohm then the ground wire is bad or the connection on the other end of that ground wire is loose, dirty, etc. 5-90 gave you a way to run that same ground test with the power on using volts scale.

From what you have said, I would clean all those grounds first, retest Pin D to ground, and then if needed (If it is still higher than 1 ohm from pin D to ground of the power off, disconnected square connector on the wiring harness side, to the negative battery ground terminal, then I would run a new ground wire from that side of the TPS sensor as described above to the negative battery terminal or to the firewall ground bolt (SS flat strap)
 
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Re: Where does the TPS get current from? RESOLUTION

Found the culprit!!!

I rechecked the in-line fuse to the TCU and it read 12+ volts coming in but only 4 or so coming out! The old fuse had rusted in the socket so when I replaced it, I tried to clean as best I could (apparently not well enough).

As a test, since I have no in-line fuse harness/plug laying around, I eliminated the fuse and hardwired the wire (yellow).

Jeep runs better/harder than it ever has with crisp shifting.

I'll definately stop at NAPA and buy and splice in a fuse to safeguard the TCU. Good thing I didn't toss the old TCU and TPS I yanked thinking they were to blame.

more money saved thanks to NAXJA and the search feature!
 
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