Merce-Jeep photos

[Vee Dubb]

Hey, finally got around to taking some pics of the mercedes 300 turbo diesel in my MJ. Figured some of you would get a kick out of this......

[scottsxj]

wow that is awesome, what kind of gas mileage are you getting with that.

[Vee Dubb]

So far, I've been clocking 21mpg average, but that is with 31's, a 4.10 rear, and excessive speeding on the highway.

With a new rear end, smaller tires (dare I say that) and some normal driving, I'm hoping 25 or better.

[OT]

Nice.
How's the rack and pinion working out?

[Vee Dubb]

80's model ford mustang r&p. Actually it's doing REAL nice. It makes for a weird ride in the rough stuff, but then again the 3" lift springs are way too stiff. On the highway, though, it rocks.

[RichP]

That is for sure very cool...would have expected better milage though..

[Vee Dubb]

I'm trying real hard not to say the word "disappointed".
oops. too late.
I really did expect something in the 27mpg range. The 300SD sedan the motor and tranny came out of weighs in a half ton more than the MJ. I figured minus 1k lbs, plus 0 aerodynamics, times the tailgate...
I'm not sure where I was going with that but yeah, still hoping to achieve atleast 25mpg after the gearing and tire change. This is, afterall, a predominantly on-road truck. Unless it's a long way to the fishing hole.

[Fudd]

Sweet! first 5 banger XJ I"ve ever seen. Those are great engines, You're running the Merc's tranny?

[chubbyhick]

sweet, i can only imagine th cursing and beer that took to do

[Vee Dubb]

Running the merc tranny. I like it so far, just need to build a shifter console for the mercedes shifter, but I need bucket seats for that.

Yeah, cursing and beer. It took several months worth of cursing and beer!

[MaXJohnson]

Originally Posted by Vee Dubb

... Unless it's a long way to the fishing hole.

kudo's for trying something different, but running rack & pinion steering on a solid axle, that bump steer must be killer. The drive to the fishing hole is gonna seem a lot longer that it really is...

[Vee Dubb]

Believe it or not, tho the general consensus agrees with you....
The bump steer is un-noticeable. Quite frankly, I think it's less.
The steering is a bit .... <i> different </i> ... but nice and tight otherwise.

[MaXJohnson]

since it would be impossible to use rack & pinion steering with a solid axle and not have major bump steer, I'll have to assume you don't know what bump steer is.

describe "<i> different </i>"

Not trying to be a dick, but if you try to present rack & pinion steering as a viable option, some others may end up wasting a bunch of time and money on something that they will have to end up removing or worse still, will result in dumping the abortion on an ususpecting buyer.

[fordtech]

Originally Posted by MaXJohnson

since it would be impossible to use rack & pinion steering with a solid axle and not have major bump steer, I'll have to assume you don't know what bump steer is.

describe "<i> different </i>"

actually he wont get bumpsteer, not at least how we with stock style steering are use to it. He will get a change in toe on both tires in opposite directions (mostly toe in on both sides). As his suspension moves the inner tie rods will move in an arch effectively shorten pulling the tire in toward the rack.
A traditional inverted y or drag link style is going to move the tires in the same direction (one in, one out, vice-versa), thats what causes bumpsteer.

His issue would feel 'different' and will cause weird handling and steering over rough roads compaired to the traditional setup, and eventually wierd tire wear. Probably not 'felt' in the wheel as a kick, or a sudden jerk in a direction like bumpsteer.

So, I dont know if you call his bumpsteer, but I guess it could be considered a type.

that fab is ugly though.

edit: is that rack mounted directly to the axle?? that changes everything.... but I still dont see how this would cause bumpsteer? maybe weird steering wheel movement due to the steering shaft moving with the suspension....

I also just read his other thread....I wasnt taking in the axle shifting due to the trackbar. Im not sure it would move enoough to have a large effect, but if it does the effect would really cause weird changes in toe.

[MaXJohnson]

Originally Posted by fordtech

actually he wont get bumpsteer, not at least how we with stock style steering are use to it. He will get a change in toe on both tires in opposite directions (mostly toe in on both sides). As his suspension moves the inner tie rods will move in an arch effectively shorten pulling the tire in toward the rack.
A traditional inverted y or drag link style is going to move the tires in the same direction (one in, one out, vice-versa), thats what causes bumpsteer.

His issue would feel 'different' and will cause weird handling and steering over rough roads compaired to the traditional setup, and eventually wierd tire wear. Probably not 'felt' in the wheel as a kick, or a sudden jerk in a direction like bumpsteer.

So, I dont know if you call his bumpsteer, but I guess it could be considered a type.

that fab is ugly though.

edit: is that rack mounted directly to the axle?? that changes everything.... but I still dont see how this would cause bumpsteer? maybe weird steering wheel movement due to the steering shaft moving with the suspension....

I also just read his other thread....I wasnt taking in the axle shifting due to the trackbar. Im not sure it would move enoough to have a large effect, but if it does the effect would really cause weird changes in toe.

Bumpsteer is defined as a change in the toe or steering angle of a wheel resulting from vertical (up or down) movement of the wheel. Toe, as defined by the SAE is a measure of the angle of the wheel relative to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle. The wheel is "toed-in" if the forward portion of the wheel is turned toward the longitudinal axis and "toed-out" if turned away. Toe is a measure of the individual wheel, not necessarily the angle, away from parallel, of the wheel pair.

In other words, the change in toe of either or both of the wheels resulting from vertical wheel movement is bump-steer. Whether or not this is felt at the steering wheel, and to what extent is not germane to the definition.

If we consider your concept of bumpsteer to be correct, we have to assume the SAE is wrong.